Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
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A couple points + 1 question
> RE: TH and job application. I have read where TH was receiving unemployment. IIRC – she statedthat she contributed about 30k to household.
Article below states that she was on unemployment
for 2 years. In most areas, you must apply for at least 2 jobs per week in order to obtain benefits.Could it be that TH applied to PPS in order to fulfill that requirement ?
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html
Terri Moulton Horman: Kyron Horman’s stepmother is a profile in contradictions
For the past two years she has been on unemployment and contributed as much as she could to the household expenses.
> Re: Note in above article that James cut the grass – so no landscaper would be needed prior to his move.
Excerpt:
James said he had to mow the lawn, take the trash down the quarter-mile driveway and help his mom wash the dishes.
> Rose – is the server related to your post about IBM Grant for Skyline ISTE ?
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_calls_his_estrang.html
Excerpt: Kaine sz
He argues that he is Kiara’s primary caregiver. He says he worked at home 3 to 5 days a week during their marriage, and would be home and present with both children most afternoons and evenings, unless traveling for business.
~~~~~~~~~
Just curious how TH had time to sneak the LS to the house with KH there 3-5 days per week (M-F) & then there is the weekend…
Well exactly. If he was home so often, why is she sneaking to the gym with their child who was having sleep deficit and irritability problems in the first place? You really cannot have it both ways and I dare say Rackner knew TH would not be in a position to fight that.
How was he not in a position to stop her from being blotto if she is passed out at 7-8Pm every night?
I am not an attorney, but I keep company with some of the best and finest and all were shocked at that motion and conveyed there is no way they would ever file that as worded. Like it or not, Bunch did withdraw his response eventually.
B
Venetia says: October 6, 2012 at 3:34 pm
@ Blink
=====
Not to mention his coming home from work early as he says he does often. I doubt Terri knew when he might pop-back-home.
My first thought when I read Kaine’s rendition of Terri being (often) passed out on the sofa, drunk, with baby sitting near her, plyaing late at night.. Was, huh? Desiree is going to blow a fuse! My second thought was.. If this is true, what kind of father is he, and why the heck wasn’t he stepping in while Terri was passed out to care for the children.. I’m not sure I believe him about this.
OT question.. I’ve read that an Amber Alert will only go out if there is a license plate or car description or something like that.. If a person/child is missing without this, an Amber Alert will not go out. However, in my state of Washington, a recent Amber Alert went out when parents discovered their teenage daughter missing (later found) and her bedroom screen was slashed. Today I am reading about this case, another Amber Alert without car description..(BTW, sounds terrible, maybe Blink will tell us more about it).
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/06/14261182-amber-alert-for-missing-colo-girl10-dozens-search-neighborhood?lite
Well, it appears for some reason TH did not want to answer questions regarding RS.
She, allegedly in May, told her mother that KH found out about the landscaper and made her fire him, so what’s the problem if KH already knew about him according to TH.
What was there to hide from LE who were desperately trying to find her 7 year-old stepson. If it was a fling, is a fling more important than the life of a child . . . no way.
From reading around I got/get the impression TH may have told her friends/girlfriends different things about her relationship with RS.
fwiw, when the story broke about the alleged “romance” with a landscaper, not to mention further down the road in October when KH’s court filing came out with info on sexting and graphic pics of sexual activity that were similar to those sent to the landscaper . . . imo, previously supportive friends/girlfriends could have felt betrayed.
I think you touched on a very important nerve. TH had secrets, her bonus son went missing.
Add water, or in the vernacular, tears.
Recipe for “she did it.”
B
I’m still curious about the family who moved away that had a child who went to school with Kyron and why they asked the fellow on NW Plainsview Rd if he is was that family.
Blink,
Did this family move away before or after Kyron’s disappearance?
Unclear that family was ever there.
B
…so, just trying to think outside the box here for a minute:
If absolutely everything doesn’t blow up at either the divorce or civil trial, what would happen to TMH if LE just said, “Oh, Gee, we don’t have anything. This will be unsolved. Guess we’ll just forget the case unless somthing new comes up. We aren’t going to prosecute TMH for anything (the person or persons unknown scenario).”
And TMH released her lawyers and decided to move back into the vicinity of her daughter, insisting she has every right to see her. Maybe even counter-suing KH for half of everything, plus all of her daughter.
Would everyone then just wait and watch and see if she makes some sort of Big Mistake so LE can then pounce?
What would happen if (by the very slimmest chance) she is innocent of anything?
Of course, since I really don’t believe any of that, I’ll get back inside the box and just follow along with all of you who are doing really excellent research.
(makes me wonder if the answer isn’t already here, but we just need to put 2 and 2 together?)
@MockingbirdSings says:October 6, 2012 at 2:48 am
@everyone –
At one time or another, we all seem to think if LE had this or that evidence about this or that crime they could charge Terri with, she would be in jail by now. I’ve been thinking about that and I’m not so sure. . . . .
I’m, again, not an attorney, but as a strategy, wouldn’t this make sense? Now if you had enough to convince Houze she would be convicted and that bargaining might be a good route to go, that’s a different story.
I suppose anybody could say anything and it’s up to someone else to disprove it. Just because they said it, doesn’t necessarily make it true. Maybe TMH got soused one or two evenings, maybe after kidlets were in bed, and it got embellished to make hubby look like The Good Guy.
You never know about family dynamics unless you are in that family – we only know what each one tells us. Why would they make themselves look bad? Who to believe …
I think they BOTH had things going on that they didn’t want anyone else to know about.
All the while, a lost little boy is paying the price for their crappy behavior.
@Venetia says: October 6, 2012 at 3:34 pm
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_calls_his_estrang.html
Excerpt: Kaine sz …He argues that he is Kiara’s primary caregiver. He says he worked at home 3 to 5 days a week during their marriage, and would be home and present with both children most afternoons and evenings, unless traveling for business….
~~~~~~~~~
Blink replies: Well exactly. If he was home so often….etc
@Riverpearl says:
October 6, 2012 at 1:31 pm
I hadn’t considered that before, about Kaine Horman intentionally leaving Terri in the house, but I think you are 100% correct. I still wonder if the whole sexting with MC was because Terri & Dede knew they were being bugged as well, and knew that’s why Kaine left her there. It never has made sense to me that Terri would do that when she knew she was being bugged, unless they did it on purpose. Maybe this is why Kaine dropped his contempt of court, because LE told him, hold on buddy, we set this whole thing up and Terri obviously knew about it. Did we ever hear Kaine say anything about Terri’s sexting with MC? Desiree said it showed her character or some such, but I don’t recall Kaine ever saying anything about it. Have i just forgotten?
Remember Kaine & Desiree both saying that Dede was giving Terri bad advice. Maybe this was one of those times. Maybe the other advice was the bat phones and an attorney named Houze.
As I was saying earlier, all these freakin’ games these adults were/are playing and where is little Kyron? Dateline had it right…..Little Boy Lost.
I have always wondered how a woman with a toddler could clear blackberries
You can’t leave the child alone in the house or take the child out in the field
A child that age needs a lot of attention
So yes get help and hope daddy will pay
This yard belonged to Kaine
If it was over run by blackberries some one was going to complain sooner or later
Before blackberries took over the Nieghborhood
Well, I read Sept ’12 PTA mtg Agenda. The mtg & minutes looked bureaucratic compared to past. So I looked at the last prior available minutes, April ’12. I swear; I feel like I am beyond a critical Terri. Parents run the school in curriculum matters using the power of fundraising.
Under New Business, only 3 months after someone reminded the PTA (Jan minutes) the former Learning Resource teacher wanted $3,500 worth of voice recognition tech (and I think it was a different product), and at a time when there has been no one in that position except a promised long term sub, two parents asked for a school site license for Co-Writer at over $1,000. And who are these parents? ….that devoted workaholic gardner and a licensed massage therapist. And they get the money!
I know the product. I bought for my kid in 2nd, donated it to his el ed as well (but his school would’ve refused a schoolwide site license as unnecessary.) That was the old days (it was popular here maybe 15 yrs ago), and before I got educated. I don’t know any local school public here that’s bought this product in over a decade for school use. It’s just word prediction. And word prediction is ubiquitous in mainstream software now as it wasn’t 15 yrs ago, so it’s unnecessary. And instructionally nowadays to get kids with writing disabilities to write, in my experience Resources from K thru college use just what the preceding Skyline teacher asked for: voice recognition technology. That removes the mechanical piece. So when these pta-active volunteers recommended the purchase of this special ed tool, which is so far imo behind the times to help el ed & middlers read & write (which best practice imo is Dragon plus Kurzweil, but it’s hard to get schools to buy unkess it’s been adopted for State standardized testing)), at a time when there has not been a permanent Resource, where is the Principal’s leadership?
I looked at the 490 & like Carol, Nora was there unaccompanied at the Sci Fair. She was interviewed by OLive. clearly she’s close to the landscaping director parent. But she’s not with Intel, Venetia.
I feel this school is a small backscratching social system that at times has been dysfunctional,though well-intended, due to lack of centralized principal leadership after crochett left. so after seeing 2011-2012 minutes, I don’t place credibility in what pta “leaders” may say about any fellow volunteer parent.
NS’s interview regarding the Sci Fair morning:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/still_no_trace_of_kyron_horman.html?mobRedir=false
BTW if Crochett’s IBM grant appl went thru, and he got his server, hardware, & tech instructional room, and he used those parents with tech cos. he referred to to handle the changeover from Macs to a PC environment, then one or more of those men, the helping parent leaders in 2003ff, had school keys & security code to turn off the alarm so they could do tech work after 5 or 6 pm. Our tech Dad(s) did.
I don’t think James should have had to all the out side work on Kaine’s yard either The bottom line for me is that place was in Kaine’s name only as I understand it
Rose, she is not at Intel now- in fact she is in Cali. She WAS there.
Add ‘Application Development Manager’ to your search. Let me know if you need help.
Which Carol are you referring to in you last few posts?
And on Terri’s resume all I see is I would have put under personal
would have been gym membership not weight lifting
@Venetia. Yes. process ” pt 1. …..Secondary acquisition of a network server, for school wide file sharing access…” We have no idea if this grant was approved or a server obtained. We also don’t know if PPS after 2003 adopted a PC environment & updated their servers accordingly. Who knows what became of tech at Skyline after the knowledgeable principal who was passionate about it went to Forest Park?
I do not understand tech. I’d follow a punch list & ask Qs of my Work Dad team supervisor. But my first el ed principal severed relations with County computer Dept as it was a Mac environment, like Skyline in 2002, as there were leadership Intel type patents leading the charge. . That meant the school bought (like this grant asks for), installed, and maintained our own server, hardware, wiring, & software. Reapproachment and rejoining the County happened about 15 yrs later.
Questions are: did the grant go thru?
Did Skyline get its own server?
Did the promised tech leadership parents pitch in?
after hours? have the keys & security code?
Who was the tech enthusiast Crochett wanted to hire, and did he?
And, was Terrones on sick or parent leave for a year?
why was the school finctionally uncovered?
Why didn’t he return there after they saved him a place by Sub use?
Why did Keefer take him with?
What doesn’t Jinnett do? (the apparent hirer of RS, if it is even true RS ever
worked on her Skyline projects)
All that server stuff goes of course to how things allegedly Got Erased at the school?
not imo that it’s not retrieveable, but if one or more Dads since 2003 had the “keys of the kingdom”
(school), all is a crap shoot as to IT recoverability. And please note, Crochett listed Susan Hall as the relevant
IT Instructional Asst.
As you were, wpg
B
@Rose, Check the Chinook Book Contact markjill@, then go to the website. Could he be a volunteer IP “Dad.” I guess the possibilities are almost endless with Intel employees.
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/mskach/9_19_11.pdf
http://www.hevanet.com/index.html
Could not find anyone at Hevanet on SF list. Still, local ISP, with IT employees, of which I have only found one. Probably coming from left field here, but I’m looking for tech people. Needle in a haystack.
I remember long ago bringing up the main IT guy for PPS. Can’t remember him now and didn’t take notes on him. But, IIRC, (and I may not) the PPS system had just switched (bought into) Microsoft Cloud. They had another choice, but I cannot remember what the deal was. I gotta’ tell ya’ I have no idea what this means, but it was a major bucks deal.
Malty says:
October 6, 2012 at 7:17 pm
I don’t think James should have had to all the out side work on Kaine’s yard either The bottom line for me is that place was in Kaine’s name only as I understand it
—————————–
The only thing I can say, Malty, is that James said Kaine was like a dad to him. James was skipping classes and not doing well in school. Perhaps it was Kaine’s way of trying to teach James some responsibility. MAYBE the John Deere was for James to have a cool way of cutting the grass, although it may have been purchased after James left – or maybe Kaine was trying to make it easier for Terri, or even himself if he had given up thinking she would do it. Perhaps Terri’s parents bought it for her. Do we know who bought the John Deere and when? (Actually, the yard itself didn’t look big enough to need a riding mower for regular gym users or a healthy teen.)
I can see needing the landscaper for removing blackberries and pruning trees, etc. That would not take long for a landscape maintenance company to do, just a few visits from what I’ve seen. The whole area is full of blackberries so I doubt if anyone would complain about them. In fact, a border of blackberries is not a bad way to keep people from walking through your property, it’s just hard to keep them in the area where you want them to be.
My guess is that Terri didn’t care if James was assigned chores, but she may have disagreed what chores or thought they should have come from her and I imagine she cared (probably more than James) if he got consequences from Kaine for not doing them.
IMO, Terri was the one who sent James away, but I suspect she thought Kaine would see how hurt she was and would want him to come back and then Kaine would apologize to her for whatever she was upset about. However, he didn’t, James stayed gone and she got more upset. Kaine said he didn’t have the right to make that decision and he was correct – I don’t think he would have asked her to change her mind, but I do think she thought a little “drama” would get his attention.
One thing we know for certain now – the child support for James has ended forever. If he had gone to college full time, the support would have continued. If it wasn’t in the original agreement, he could have gone to court and asked for it. Once he signed on for the military, the obligation to support him ended.
The tractor was a rental.
B
I offer this as a follow-up to the current discussions ONLY because I am familiar with PPS, otherwise I wouldn’t have anything to offer about this. It’s just a little history.
In the late 90”s (IIRC) PPS acquired money for computers and building wiring. I think it was bond money. I know that was a long time ago, but I think the policies set in place then have continued. Each classroom was to get a certain number of computers – it may have varied by grade level, but somewhere between 1 and 5. The older buildings were not wired for this so it took time to put in place. Teachers talked with each other and some buildings got permission for teachers to give up all, or all but 1, of their classroom computers in order to make a computer lab that could be reserved and used by any teacher for a period of time. High schools and middle schools who chose to do this generally had 2 or 3 labs and some teachers kept the classroom versions. Later, the labs could be used for testing also. As I recall there was some flexibility about PC and Mac but your school had to come to an agreement and submit a plan that made sense for the future as well.
My high school was very large and eventually got its own server, but we were not independent of the district – not sure how that works, but know it was true due to the number and kinds of things that went wrong from time to time. Everybody wanted a tech person on staff, but money for this was not included in the funding for equipment. First, the vast majority of the candidates who knew enough to do all of this (except the wiring) didn’t want to work in a school environment which paid much less than they could earn otherwise. Second, every time there were budget cuts the “cry” was always save the classroom teachers to keep class sizes down – tech people didn’t have much job security except at the district level. Third, even ten years ago or less, educators were not well trained to use computers in their teaching and to maintain the computers, because there weren’t any available to them at work until so recently. Therefore, teachers relied on those who were skilled to teach them too, and it was common for some students to know more about computers than many teachers. I think things have slowly improved in this respect.
Having said all that, I believe the push for better technology within the school is related to the attempt to become an IB school, and I believe that to be an effort to tie the school more securely to Lincoln High School and avoid an attempt in the future to close the school because of its small size. Almost 30% of the students in 2010 were transfers from other neighborhoods. Working toward the IB could assure those students of being accepted to Lincoln and continuing that work. It does amaze me how much money they raise to support what they want to do. It also surprises me because PPS has made attempts in the past to keep any particular school from raising so much money that they would have a big advantage over other schools. Not sure if that policy of sharing a percentage through a general fund continues.
In Oregon’s economic climate of the last decade, supporting a school for 207 students in a very old building is definitely going to draw attention every year as to whether that should continue.
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/departments/curriculum/2433.htm
IB® (International Baccalaureate) is a college-prep course of study offered in two of our high schools. If a student meets all requirements, he/she may be awarded an IB Diploma. This entitles the student to receive credit at some colleges. In addition to our two authorized IB high schools (Cleveland and Lincoln), we have four K-8 schools (King, Sabin, Skyline, and Vernon) working toward IB authorization in both the Middle Years Program and the Primary Years Program.
“Skyline is a candidate school for the IB PYP and MYP Programmes. 29.6% (87 of 294) of Skyline’s student body is made up of transfers.” (2010)
Week One. Who are “Central departments” (Mbs, do you know what that means, because “they” were there the night Kyron disappeared. Also, the auto-dialer says to me that there was no phone call to the Horman’s. A couple of other bits, thought might be relevant with current conversation; Susan Hall 15 years, and Crotchett led the delivery of a staff lunch on Monday. All fwiw.
snips>
West-side schools, led by Forest Park Elementary School Principal Kevin Crotchett, mobilized Monday with lunch delivered daily to the Skyline staff.
Susan Hall, who’s served as the school’s secretary for 15 years, notes the unspoken support among staff and families:
As the investigation launched, custodians Selim Masic from Lewis Elementary School (previously at Skyline) and Skyline custodian Bill Tandy worked 12-hour shifts to cover the school’s operational needs.
Central departments also jumped in starting the evening of June 4 as staff members returned to work to provide information and support to authorities searching for Kyron.
On Sunday, June 6, the deputy superintendents and Nick Jwayad, chief information officer, began pulling together Information Technology, System Planning & Performance, and Human Resources managers and staff to get an autodialer system up and running for all schools to report unexcused absences to families in a timely manner. The team implemented the autodialer for all schools by Tuesday afternoon.
IT’s efforts included the work of Stacey Partin and the eSIS support team members, who personally offered training and guidance to every school that was not using the autodialer to ease the transition to a new system so late in the school year.
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/news/3919.htm
Why did Kyron get an age enhanced photo and Jamie and Ubaldo did not?
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet
Why do Jamie and Ublado have NCIC (National Crime Information Center) numbers and Kyron does not?
http://www.forthelost.org/family/sanchez-mejia.html
Excerpt: Kaine sz
He argues that he is Kiara’s primary caregiver. He says he worked at home 3 to 5 days a week during their marriage, and would be home and present with both children most afternoons and evenings, unless traveling for business.
~~~~~~~~~
IMO, from personal family experience,(divorced daughter in Oregon) if Kaine can tell the court he is the primary caregiver or he is parenting at home as much as Terry was he stands to gain at least 50% of shared custody or more in a normal divorce situation. I think Kaine was posturing by advice of a lawyer or previous experience.
Correct as to the reason he said it.
B
PPS’ POV one week out.
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/news/3919.htm
Skyline’s no doubt deservedly esteemed Secretary
(or is it Instructional Asst?) is a primary source.
In an investigatory autopsy, I hope they reflect:
–Should PPB, which had statutory authority over crime on school property, have declared it a possible crime scene and secured it? –Should the students have been bussed elsewhere for the final week or school declared “out” with the comfort rallies held elsewhere to secure the scene?
This article notes
Staff flooded back Friday night.
Interviews on site all weekend.
The Former & new janitors each
worked 12 hour shifts to keep up with
increased human-created workload
External PPS employees flooded in to work, at least 15 counselors.
Staff or parents from other schools brought food to Skyline staff daily.
Businesses brought in staff food.
Rallies & activities took place on a couple days one week out
with many strangers (Nike employees, many others)
It seems to me Friday night needed PPB in charge per their own regs directing two teams:
one search & one interview. I think the nearest neighboring PPS property (Forest Park?)
might have become the interview site staff were directed to go to, and where weekend interviews took
place while a plan was formulated whether Skyline would remain secured the following week.
Letting PPS return to business Monday at Skyline was the first step that allowed PPS to blow through &
put this behind them promptly. PPB surrendering a possible crime scene was the first major PR gift
to PPS in the investigation. TMH gifting herself was PPS’ second “I’m off the hook” PR dream.
Hi, MbS ty for late 90s background on teach. The grant proposal says Skyline got that–several computers per classroom placed together in a mini classroom lab in each classroom (well probably past young ages). It looks like County gave Skyline Macs. Most Counties were Mac environments in those days.
What Skyline wanted in addition to their classroom pods was a lab an entire classroom could go to for instruction, a PC environment schoolwide, and most of all an employee who could train teachers in integrating instruction & curriculum, Crochett’s professional interest. A principal like that with inflexible teachers will just move on.
Having had 2 kids in a middle school that went IB over a decade ago, I cannot begin to tell you how very minimal the requirements are and are not higher than the County curriculum that was already there, and do not relate to IT.
The only real extra is the final project (done in 9th or 10th) as a leftover & most kids do a simple one shot fundraiser for an overseas org. Due to figuing out in HS the Middle years IB lack of value added to our own County’s curriculum which is rigorous enough, our own pta leadership have begun to raise the issue with Admin, can’t students choose to opt out of the Middle Years IB Certificate? Other County middles have not rushed out to become IB over that decade plus.
The County IT Dept sounded weak if they’d not handled basics like auto dialing and records retrieval. Our weak County IT changed only after competent schools with tech parents began to refuse to work with them until they chose a PC environment & modernized. Maybe that happened in Multnomah County in the last decade.
PS MbS at least in our County Middle Years IB requirements have little to no resemblance to High School IB, which is what parents with multiple kids found out over time. By my last child, I think more kids in high school had gone back to chosing AP over IB classes. Anyway, neither IB nor AP impacted technology use in and for the classroom. I guess my point as to Skyline is the local server if their was one likely could be used for retrieval and the County’s not so necessary.
I thought the person in the rented tractor seat was Terri’s Dad, there to support her work improving property in Kaine’s name only. I think James was sent South in part for safety (if only from urban ills) and in part for a good parenting and marriage role model (her Dad and Mom), but mostly because as Tarver said he & Kaine were butting heads. We have no idea what that’s about , but a teen male will often respond protectively on Mom’s behalf.
@Venetia. Tim Reifsteck is at all the pta mtgs (& even took minutes last yr). Retired Intel engineer, resume similar to Kaine? Auction committee etc. Wife attended Sci Fr alone. She’s on site often: Mathews room parent, Lit cr weekly for Dunn. I posted urls with this info. Url I posted showed Jinnett as landscaping mgr, but she’s also getting $ for sped software. (Of all the things our principals would use $ for, that was last of say 10.) And does so much else. Then there’s her collaborator Nora who attended Sci Fr alone too. I’m missing what Intel employee volunteered almost on a daily basis as Neighbor said she did & attended the Sci Fair if you say this friend of Kaine’s has moved to Cali. Frankly, Kim Holm comes to mind as someone likely to claim she was there daily. And I could see her being subtly negative.
Blink,
In your opinion, what does it say about an organized offender who is not deterred by witnesses?
I am not sure I understand your question exactly, wpg.
However, if you are asking me my generalized opinion about a potential offender who is not concerned about being witnessed or seen and/or presumptively feels such observations are not a deterrent to his actions pre or post offense-
Then I am saying… that fact would escalate my original and current opinion in this case that a sexually motivated and opportunistic offender cannot be excluded as a suspect in Kyron’s disappearance.
B
The tractor was a rental.
B
Do you know for what period of time?
Do not.
B
Doesn’t the school lie within MCSO jurisdiction, not PPB?
@TRuth. I’m too slow reading back and have posted way too much. All that Yellow is embarrassing.
But if you have info re PPS using “Cloud” file storage systemwide prior to 2010, I’d love to see it.
Interestingly the attorney ethics class I attended at GW law sch last month was by an attorney claiming while at DOJ his work with nsa & others at times occurred in secure rooms where docs were shredded. He most frothed at the mouth, and rebutted, 40 yo type attorneys who saw no harm in clouds, when he tried to teach about Cloud file storage, given the Rules about client confidentiality. I can’t remember what he said, but imo in his opinion, the Cloud” an open book in his opinion. (He also showed video of cell data being captured by some electronic gizmo thieves as you walk up street talking on cell. My takeaway was businesses should put nothing confidential (let’s say iep’s for a school system) in “the Cloud”. He kept asking those 40 yo resistors “What is ‘the Cloud?’” Idk, I’m not a techie, nor an attorney.
erose says:
October 7, 2012 at 12:38 am
Week One. Who are “Central departments” (Mbs, do you know what that means, because “they” were there the night Kyron disappeared. Also, the auto-dialer says to me that there was no phone call to the Horman’s.
———————–
Central Departments would mean non-school based, in other words whoever the superintendent or student services could free up from Student Services Dept., Drug and Alcohol, Special Education, and other departments which support schools generally. I was called because I was on the PPS Crisis Response Team as a retired counselor and also had taught elementary school – but I had a foster baby at the time and could not go. I could have gone for a day, but they wanted people who could continue through at least the next week if needed.
I have assumed since the auto-dialer was not set up for Skyline that NO Skyline families got a call about Kyron. At one point, I heard a PPS person say they did not actually intend to send it to the whole district. Maybe when they realized the auto-dialer was not set up for Skyline, someone decided sending to all might reach some if they had kids in other schools (transfers, upper grades) – but I doubt they stopped to analyze much.
It is not unusual for school staff to jump in and help other schools. When we had tough times, we would sometimes receive cookies, cards, or flowers for the main office or some other gesture that others cared about us. It was very reassuring. We sent to others as well. We also gave to our staff and students’ families – food for family guests from out of town when a student died, for example, and I paid for the grave marker of a baby for one of my students, others helped pay for the funeral expenses, and on and on. I say this because as much as I gripe about PPS top administration (and Board) and their policies, the staff, in general, was (in my experience) very dedicated and caring toward everyone.
Rose says:
October 7, 2012 at 10:21 am
In an investigatory autopsy, I hope they reflect:
–Should PPB, which had statutory authority over crime on school property, have declared it a possible crime scene and secured it? –Should the students have been bussed elsewhere for the final week or school declared “out” with the comfort rallies held elsewhere to secure the scene?
——————————-
Yes, yes yes, Rose. Only thing is that I would not have declared school out for the year because witnesses might have been lost and students needed that connection to process what was going on, but there were such a small number of students that they could have gone elsewhere by the following Wednesday. To say they couldn’t would be silly because if there had been a fire in the school or huge water leak or whatever, they would have found a way to deal with it, including the day care center.
Even an extra few days off with interviews at another site could have allowed for a lot of investigation.
@Mbs, TY for the answer about central departments. I only pointed out the help from the other school as it related to their past principal. I would expect other schools to help. I think the people in institutions are on the whole wonderful, compassionate people, and I do not doubt Skyline needed that reassurance.
MbS. Without being glib,, when you retire, run for the school board.
The Supt needs the accountability to knowledgeable practical citizens.
Blink replies
October 7, 2012 at 11:31 am:
“However, if you are asking me my generalized opinion about a potential offender who is not concerned about being witnessed or seen and/or presumptively feels such observations are not a deterrent to his actions pre or post offense-
Then I am saying… that fact would escalate my original and current opinion in this case that a sexually motivated and opportunistic offender cannot be excluded as a suspect in Kyron’s disappearance.
B”
____
Yup yup, that’s what I was asking you, Blink. Thank you.
So then in general terms of a potential organized offender and an abduction that was planned with precision . . . if the organized offender is witnessed it would be an error of sorts on the part of the organized offender?
wpg you are asking me questions that are presumptively found in a known profile- in which this case is without a suspect. I want to be clear to you and anyone reading that with the severely limited amount of case information available to me or known, I am offering my educated opinion as just that- an opinion.
I mention this because professionally my response would and should be that there is not enough verifiable info available to develop anything other than a working hypothesis/ theory subject to exclusion or escalation.
It is not appropriate for me to outline the characteristics or current profile markers of a “hypothetical” offender for that reason.
Appolly for any eye rolling injuries by now, lol, but necessary, thank you.
You asked:
So then in general terms of a potential organized offender and an abduction that was planned with precision . . . if the organized offender is witnessed it would be an error of sorts on the part of the organized offender?
***
It is difficult for me to feel comfortable even “opining” on the issue at this point because offering such an opinion should be presented with a factual or at a minimum, a presumptive background in support.
I am not prepared to publish that of course.
That said, “in theory” , if this offender suspect is organized, and had no fear of witness acknowledgement, the statistics and literature suggest that he is unknown to the victim.
They also say some very sobering things about the fate of this little sweetie man I have feared since June 4, 2010. [I will not respond to any requests for my opinion on that statement whatsoever, inappropriate to this format, I am firm on this to all please.]
With much respect, I feel like both of this child’s parents have never asked such questions, nor have they asked them of the right professionals.
I do not understand that because off the record and unpublishable, I have. Obviously I can’t discuss the answers in detail , but in a general way, I can tell you that none of them think Ky is alive, and none of them think an opportunistic offender can be excluded to date, citing Staton’s and Gate’s own words.
Lastly , if all the above is true and “nets out”, then yes, it is fair to say based on that this is an isolated incident to this location and likely the entire community.
No, that does not make anyone I know feel remotely better. Kyron remains missing and may forever if someone does not make some investigatively unpopular decisions in this case.
B
Will Desiree be able to depose Rudy? Will LE give contact information? Can they refuse? Obviously, Sanchez (or whatever his name may be) is a key witness. His identity and whereabouts are seemingly protected. Does LE have his cooperation with an agreement to protect his location? IMO, until the MFH situation is resolved, Kyron’s whereabouts will remain a mystery.
Information I hope will come out about Rudy Sanchez:
1. What is his true name?
2. Where is he now?
3. Is he in the US illegally?
4. Is he affiliated with Rudy Sanchez Landscaping?
5. What is his affiliation with Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez?
6. Does he know Elsy Sanchez? Is she is wife or sister?
7. Is he currently working?
8. Is he under police protection?
9. What exact words did Terri say to lead him to believe she wanted to hire him or find someone to murder her husband for money?
“Peter Bunch said he’s asked for Terri Horman calls to 9-1-1, back to Dec 26th [Note: the Decemeber request may have been misspoken]. But was denied by Sheriff’s office saying it’s part of “ongoing Investigation.” He’s tried to serve the landscaper, Rudy Sanchez with subpoena for deposition, but prosecutors wouldn’t give him contact information because of the “ongoing investigation.” Bunch said Terri called 911 when Sanchez showed up at her house wired “trying to talk to about something”. He also said Rudy Sanchez is an AKA (alias).”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html
Oh, sorry, one more: 9) Did LE give him a Polygraph?
Now I remember what I was looking at, I was looking at the fact that the PPS IT guy, Nick Jwayad, made the move to change to Cloud it appears sometime during the time Kyron went missing and February 2011? I had wondered if this resulted in the Skyline missing documents, that’s why I was looking.
I guess MS Cloud wasn’t implemented until 2011-12 school year, but this article does mention what PPS was using for email before that:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:IyUAO-WNVLMJ:cloudcomputing.ioniasolutions.com/+&cd=17&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Portland Public Schools Leads the Path in Oregon to the Cloud
PortlandPublic Schools, the largest school district in the state of Oregon with more than 46,000 students across 85 schools, is planning to move to Microsoft Live@edu as its core collaboration and communications suite for students, teachers and staff to drive improved teaching and learning in the classroom. Portland was looking for a new e-mail solution as its current on-premises Novell GroupWise system was coming to end of life, and it wanted to provide new services to students. After a thorough analysis of both Live@edu and Google Apps for Education, Portland chose Live@edu because of Microsoft’s training and support structure, security, and interoperability advantages.
“Choosing Live@edu best aligned with the larger technology direction we are taking at Portland where we are working to expand and enrich the tools and services available to our customers,” said Nick Jwayad, chief information officer at PortlandPublic Schools, who joined Kolcun on stage at the Summit. “Live@edu promises to enhance the services we currently provide to teachers, broaden the reach of services to students and reduce our costs by at least a third.”
Portland plans to deploy Live@edu to 8,500 faculty and staff in the fall, and to high school students in the 2011–12 school year.
*********************
U.S. CIO Summit 2011: Q&A with Portland Public Schools
Sig Behrens, general manager for U.S. Education at Microsoft, talks with Nick Jwayad, CIO for Portland Public Schools, about why they chose Microsoft Live@edu and their plans to implement it across their school district.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BjUVoiBUp4oJ:extreme.mobile.msn.com/video/watch/17e3b9d7-5711-4a19-b24d-fb5cddd6a3a9+&cd=19&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Above was the video I watched where they were discussing the decision, the video “cannot be played”. It was from February 23, 2011. I can’t now remember if they had discussed *when* this decision had been made. Here’s another synopisis: (snipped)
When Jwayad described to me of the school district’s decision to “go Microsoft,” he made it sound like a technological one. That’s not too surprising. He’s the CIO, after all. And as I learned when I attended a K-12 summit for Oregon school district tech coordinators, sponsored by Google, the challenges around moving schools, students, teachers, administrators to the cloud – whether it’s Google’s or Microsoft’s – can be pretty daunting. Today’s announcement from Portland Public Schools will mean that the district will have migrated to Live@edu by the beginning of the 2011-12 academic year.
The challenges for school districts migrating to the cloud include the infrastructure. There are the policies (COPPA and FERPA). There are the parents. There are the permissions. And of course, there are the teachers and students, who now not only want email (let’s pretend, for the sake of argument here that the kids want email) but demand a whole suite of online products and services where they can easily communicate and collaborate – in the classroom and at home.
It’s not an easy move nor necessarily a cheap move (despite the promises of eventual cost savings). It may be a technological move (“to the cloud!”). And as Paul Nelson, an ed-tech specialist for Oregon’s Northwest Regional ESD (a Google district), once told me, it’s a cultural move, one requiring district, administrator, and teacher buy-in. In the face of all these challenges – despite the PR from Microsoft and from Google – migration to the cloud is a slow move for most schools.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_versus_microsoft_the_battle_for_the_k-12_cl.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+readwriteweb+%28ReadWriteWeb%29
@MBS
I do remember the tracker was rented
I grew up on a small farm in a town just south of here
Blackberries were an issue
You had to control them
This place I live now is sitting on an past blackberry
Hill they are out there clearing at the first sign of blackberrys
It is hard work
I did marry with a teen son of my own
Like a Dad or not Kaine wAs responsible
For his blackberrys
But love ya
@TRuth. I posted in the last couple weeks a url to PPB’s own regs stating PPB has jurisdiction over crimes on PPS property. I assume it was the product of City/County agreement when PPS built outside city boundaries.
that makes beaucoup sense.
What it means is the school was DELIBERATELY not labelled a crime scene to allow mcso to take jurisdiction.
Does any police dept voluntarily offload jurisdiction, especially of public school
property of person crimes? So why?
If on Friday nite June 4 this was not treated as a potential crime with PPB having jurisdiction, the alternatives were
1) he wandered off
2) he ran away
He wandered off is ridiculous. The class was not outside st play. It was an indoor activity. He has no history, does he, of being an absconder. My dau’s class had a boy who often ran outside under stress. He did it visibly; it was a cry for help. Kyron did not have that history & his placement physically in that school that morning was not conducive.
Run away? Ditto. no history. No motive. Going to Desiree’s where she vows he wanted to live. ice cream & wii with Dad. A five minute convo with Dad & principal ruled out the 2 non-crime scene possibilities. So why didn’t PPB do its job? Fear of blackening PPS in tge corse of an investigation But, per their own regs, it was their job.
I meant: property oR person crimes…
This is a good article about “cloud” computing. If you ask me, it will simply make privacy obsolete. I believe most of the new smart phones use this technology. I know people who insist on phones with Sims cards to avoid the cloud. In instances of record retrieval, such as with Skyline, I think it’s a good idea. Public information should be stored in an accessible and secure place. The cloud is good for public information IMO, but dangerous for private information.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/cloud-computing/cloud-computing.htm
My utmost respect to you, Blink.
@Rose – This has been a great discussion this morning (ran to church in between posts). I already did retire at which point I returned my retirement “gifts” from the Board along with a letter explaining if they wanted to “honor me”, they should have treated my school more respectfully and fairly. I wouldn’t last a minute in administration or on the Board, I’m afraid – don’t like playing the game. I had a hard enough time just being on the committee that watched for safety hazards in our building (according to state employment laws). I did find some odd things though. You could lock the doors to the building where the ADA ramp was, but if you pushed the ADA button, the doors would swing wide open. Apparently, there was some sort of switch that had to be turned off, but you weren’t allowed to turn it off during hours the building was supposed to be open (which often went into the evening). So, if the school was on lockdown due to someone being spotted in the neighborhood with a gun (happened many times), and IF they knew the “secret” or thought to try it, they could walk right in through a door not visible from office or classroom. Of course, those of us who weren’t in a classroom were assigned to stand by the doors to keep people out. Take comfort however, they did give me a little walkie talkie.
The point of all this is that I do believe many school buildings, particularly old ones, ones with several additions in different decades, or ones which have had heating systems replaced or updated but no money to remove the old equipment, may well have their “secrets” – even smaller buildings like Skyline. In the case of the ADA button opening locked doors, I found out the custodian knew (when I asked), but none of the administrators or anyone else on staff knew. People just don’t think or remember to pass along information like this. I did because I found it scary. I suggested a doorbell/speaker system to the main office, but it was deemed too expensive. I’ll bet a few years later that information was no longer recalled by anyone.
continuing @Rose – I totally agree about IB vs AP. Competition for resources and continued operation among schools in Portland is huge. Offering an IB program makes parents and students take notice of your school, gives you an argument about why you need more of certain kinds of classes than another school might, etc. But in my opinion, it doesn’t live up to the hype. Neither of those may have required new technology, but it’s easy to imply they do if you are trying to make a case for it.
Each school had (for years, not sure about now) a committee of staff members and an administrator that was supposed to make recommendations about the school’s computers and technology programs. PPS is not related to Multnomah County other than by geography – they do their own thing. I don’t think they had the best district level advice about any of these things when they started looking toward this century.
You’d think if there were that many Intel-related people around, they’d have known at least who Kaine was and that Terri was the red-headed wife of an Intel employee.
TY for info TRuth. God knows what our County has done by now, bug Novell had plenty glitches with software, often used as an excuse for not buying site licenses of sped software for example. Makes sense a microsoft “cloud” would work with microsoft software. I’m beginning to realize if this is being sold to Counties as a Novell replacement why Gates morphed himself over the last decade into Mr Beneficent Educator.
Again, that GW law teacher I sat under for 2 hrs in an alum seminar would say, “What is a Cloud?” I didn’t understand a lot, but i think I got it is a company which sells server capacity to Microsoft or Google “Cloud,” of which Amazon is an industry leader. those contractong Cos with M or G then subcontract out, and maybe subcontractors sub again, so you might get a tiny enterprise site in Asia, So America, or New Mexico with 1 to 5 employees guarding the fort–and your data. Anyway, I strongly do not think storing data via “cloud” would make any school district more it efficient.
And mcso where is that info from Skyline & PPS’ servers from say March-June 15, 2010?
I don’t think that data relevant to the DY suit, & she won’t get it with her focus. Who will get it?
Do I get this right? Kyron exited with an unknown male, not only bcz Terri was elsewhere,
but there were 1 or more witnesses, child or adult.
Investigative paths: That unknown male was
1) recruited by & collaborative with Terri, or
2) recruited by & collaborative with RS, for money or love or revenge, the latter most likely as he’d fallen out with Terri.
That means he could pass a poly on the money motive
He chose the perp, maybe from Anselmo’s prison contacts, in part due to the perp’s known sexual appetite.
3) drawn to Kyron as a sexual opportunity as a byproduct of a secret life of Terri
4) Desiree & Kaine & their families & associates are off the hook however dysfunctional
5) a highly organized pedophile sex offender targeted Kyron or targeted a demographic within the school, either a perp associated somehow with PPS, even if only dating a school parent, or not, a transient or from elsewhere. .