Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
Related Posts
Related Posts:
2,458 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
@ Ode
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1113776765669.2019463.1264414625#!/photo.php?fbid=1113779565739&set=a.1113776765669.2019463.1264414625&type=3&theater
So DY’s ex came to see baby Kiara.
*********************************************************************
It seems Terri and Kaine were friendly with McCullough and his wife…aren’t they at Terri’s birthday party (at restaurant)?
Ode says:
September 13, 2012 at 8:55 am
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1113776765669.2019463.1264414625#!/photo.php?fbid=1113779565739&set=a.1113776765669.2019463.1264414625&type=3&theater
So DY’s ex came to see baby Kiara.
__________
Bowl of spaghetti is right.
You haven’t scooped on Kaine’s past or current associates in this series, though his civil cases came first. So, I infer Davis a more credible investigation avenue than Kaine’s. If I were Defense, I’d assembke a team of 10 or so fellow retirees I had worked with before who’d do it for expenses, covering for a cut in the event of a c word book. I’d save my subpoena of Det O’Donnell & LE for last to get as much as I could from nonLE before the case stalled. And I’d try to subpoena first someone credibke on the force who disagreed with his case direction.
I hope Blink’s series includes a recipe on how to cut overripe cheese without making a bigger mess.
I don’t remember which commentator suggested a plea deal for Terri.
Ode says:
September 13, 2012 at 8:55 am
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1113776765669.2019463.1264414625#!/photo.php?fbid=1113779565739&set=a.1113776765669.2019463.1264414625&type=3&theater
So DY’s ex came to see baby Kiara.
———————————————
Thanks for the link. I assume (seem to remember) Amy is his wife and Cassidy, his child. It seems to me this was a friendly group of parents who met at a restaurant each time they exchanged kids. I don’t think they just switched cars in the parking lot. Maybe Greg was also helping to transport kids since Kaine and Terri couldn’t during that time. Interesting picture of Terri with glasses and looking thinner than I would expect right after birth.
As I will delve further in part 3, the message really is this- How sure are we that if Ky was a targeted victim, that associates past or present of Desiree or Kaines have been excluded to further this investigation? The fact is, TH was the immediate suspect, continues to be, and from where I sit nobody seems to have any intention or possibly ability to back that up.
B
———————————————————————-
Okay, after reading through the new pieces the last few days, I’m seriously beginning to wonder … did someone know enough specifics about TMH’s lifestyle and/or the Horman ‘routines’ that they were able to frame TMH for something she genuinely wasn’t responsible for? I know statistics back LE’s alleged investigational techniques up 100%, but sometimes things really aren’t “as they seem”. Just turn on “48 Hours”, “Who the Bleep Did I Marry?”, “Dominick Dunne” “Investigations with Dale Hinman” or any of the many criminal investigation shows and you will see it in spades. Sometimes I am truly floored at the actual perpetrator.
Not saying TMH is innocent in any form. But is it possible she was made to “look” guilty and her background and less-than-savory lifestyle possible helped to assist in that? Just thinking outside the proverbial box … I’m as lost on this case as everyone else.
Miss Bri says:
September 12, 2012 at 4:19 pm
Is this our David Roy Davis:
AND
T. Ruth says:
September 12, 2012 at 4:01 pm
I am thinking about Kyron and his circle.
—————
Shut the front door! Excellent research, I am close to seizure mode again. Wow, thank you.
2. Desiree L Davidson
Desiree Laverne Davidson
44 Springfield, OR
Eugene, OR
Elmira, OR
Vick Davidson
****************************
Desiree A Davidson
Horman D,a
Desiree’ Horman
D A Horman
Desiree A Horman
Desiree Ann Horman
40 Central Point, OR
Blaine, WA
Portland, OR
Beaverton, OR
West Linn, OR
Jaylynn Lynn Brown
Katherine Marie Davidson
Kelly Marie Davidson
Ryan C Davidson
Sean Matthew Davidson
********************
Maybe just me, but I think we are looking at two different Desiree Davidsons here. One is Desiree Ann Davidson, aged 40 the other who lives(d) in Eugene/Springfield Oregon (Lane County), is Desiree Laverne Davidson, aged 44. And as Ms. Bri pointed out has the address that corresponds with David Roy Davis.
Kyron’s Momma, btw graduated from North Medford High School. I believe in 1991. I found her high school picture from her 1987 yearbook, where she is a freshman. Assuming she graduated around 18 yoa, she is 39/40. Not 44, like Desiree Laverne. Desiree Laverne is associated with a Vic Davidson, so I am just guessing that Desiree Laverne is either married to him or is his unmarried sister.
http://www.peoplefinders.com/search/searchpreview.aspx?searchtype=people-name&fn=desiree&ln=davidson&mn=a&city=&state=OR&age=&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=#
http://radaris.com/p/Desiree/Davidson/OR/
I’m just trying to get things straight. There are at least two Desiree Davidsons in Oregon, maybe even more.
It comes up with DY accurrate DOB, but that could be a data entry crossover, at any rate I edited the piece and noted the edit change it says this now, it also corresponded with her DOB for an arrest in 1993 which I confirmed against the DL, I did not include that because I am not positive what it was for:
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
mas says:
September 13, 2012 at 8:28 am
________
I simply do not believe that to be true. I believe the letter is real and was in fact left by the perp. I believe LE has the letter as evidence. The whole ‘psychic’ at the wall story (as posted on a forum and never critically evaluated)was never proven to be true and the media story that the letter was left by a homeless man (no follow up story ever took place and said homeless man must have vanished as he was never charged or interviewed)was never proven to be true, either.
Since McCullough shared driving duties to Springfield dropoff/pickup,
it makes sense he was the driver who stopped by to get or
drop off Kyron at the Horman home right after Kiara’s birth. And for a few months before.
It’s a small, small world. We have to remember that 10-15 years ago, these people ALL knew each other, probably hung out in the same circles. TMH was a friend of DY … seems that even their “personal” relationships, boyfriends, husbands, etc., overlapped somewhat.
If you write the names down and the connections between ALL of them, you’ll probably find everything going around in a big circle. Add to the mix personal grudges, drugs, etc., it gets positively unsavory. EVERYONE included.
TY was absolutely correct when he told the other 3, DY, TMH and KH that their lives would now be an open book. It would be interesting to know how TY got to know DY and if any of these unsavory new names were around at the time. Probably. Nobody led stellar lives, it seems.
Let’s hope Kyron is save somewhere until this is all over.
I’m not hearing too much about SZ in the past few pages. –and I just had a thought: what if TMH was “handing off Kyron” to a SZ who is NOT a PERV, but instead somebody who would take him somewhere to keep him safe until all of The Bad Guys are hunted down.
All we know is that we don’t really know much of anything.
@Rose says: September 12, 2012 at 9:33 pm
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html?mobRedir=false
Terri lived in Springfield OR with Ecker from 1996-2000.
The David Roy Davis of Eugene lived in Springfield at that time per MyLife.
Could Springfield be where Terri first crossed paths with Desiree?
I don’t know whose msg I’m replying to and definitely don’t know how to do facial recognition stuff, but I took that dark picture of Kyron at the SF and pasted it into a Word file and then I cropped it to just the head shot, and then I lightened and lightened it, and I got a “very nice” picture of the man in the background at the back of the room.
Except I don’t know any of those people. But IF he is a “baddie”, I have a very nice picture of him…
@kimberly says:September 12, 2012 at 10:28 pm
@ Blink,snip>
13. Rose says:September 12, 2012 at 8:39 pm
I suppose the forensic evidence,
for lack of a better word,
includes sci fair photos & videos.
**************************************
would this be how they obtained the info for the facial recognition
software?
Amy Sister,
fwiw, I recall “the letter” was extensively discussed on many blogs at the time.
Adding to mas’s comments, I believe it was the owner/admin of the physic forum who eventually posted the orgin and author of “the letter”.
Something to consider is that “the letter” was written directly on a banner/signage and had to be cut out . . . cut out because it was inappropriate. It was not a pre-written letter on a piece of paper someone brought and attached to the wall.
jmo, a perp would not likely take the length of time to stand and write the message on Kyron’s banner/sign, especially with witnesses.
With regards to your thoughts about a homeless man, are you maybe thinking of the incident in which someone tore down part of the stringed colorful pennant banners – - like the kind you see hanging outside car dealerships?
There were 2 different incidents at the wall:
kgw article
August 4, 2010
“Multnomah County sheriff’s deputies said they investigated reports of possible vandalism at the wall of hope for Kyron Horman at Skyline Elementary Wednesday.
Spokeswoman Mary Lindstrand confirmed that someone tried to tear down a banner on the fence and wrote a crude message on a sign there.
Deputies interviewed one person at the scene but no arrests were made.
Investigators said they think it was done by someone in the area who had mental health issues.”
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kyron-wall-of-hope-possibly-vandalized-missing-horman-portland-99982509.html
Amy Sister, there were photos at the time showing s portion of the colorful flag banners hanging down as well as the visible “cut portion” from the banner where “the message/letter” had been written.
Just a thought; wonder if they are waiting for Portland’s major elected official to leave office before this all breaks wide open?
oops,sorry: links here:
@Rose says:September 12, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Two different Desiree’s and looks to me like Kyrons Momma is not the one linked to David Roy Davis.
Thanks, Blink, just trying to cover all bases. I can certainly see the confusion. Desiree has a large family, who knows, maybe they’re related, I once saw a Desiree Davidson listed as 87 YOA, maybe it’s a grandma to both.
***********
@Ode, Greg McCullough is in other pictures on Terri’s FB. They shared driving duties transporting their respective kids/step kids down south to meet with Desiree. You will see him in pictures with Terri and his and DY’s son Quinn at Red Robin for a birthday party for Quinn as well. His current wife is in one of the pictures on Terri’s FB also.
I have often wondered if The McCulloughs ever babysat for Kyron, or if Kyron ever spent time at the McCulloughs hanging out with his other brother Quinn. Did he play outside there often? If so, who are the neighbors around there? The McCullough household is not that far from Skyline, about a 10 minute drive, IIRC.
For such a little guy, Kyron has a big circle around him, lots of acquaintances from gym rats to extended family and neighborhoods. Makes me wonder, if Terri did notice something wrong with Kyron, why didn’t anyone else? Kaine finally admitted to noticing, but thought it was lack of sleep or something, what about all the other people around Kyron?
Teachers, coaches, step dads, step moms, brothers, other relatives, neighbors, parents of Kyron’s friends, etc., etc. If Terri & Kaine were the only ones to notice something off with Kyron, does that mean he was only displaying this unusual behavior (gaping out, etc.) while home?
IDK, but someone does. Would be an interesting deposition question.
Nice pictures of baby Kiara … with various relatives. Soooo. I thought Kaine is Kiara’s father? Where is the picture of Kaine with Kiara?
(maybe I missed it…)
Is Greg the one who was married to DY? If so, he must have been pals with TMH, too.
*sigh* ….one big happy(?) “family”???
Well, she’s sure a cute little girl.
@Ode says:September 13, 2012 at 8:55 am
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1113776765669.2019463.1264414625#!/photo.php?fbid=1113779565739&set=a.1113776765669.2019463.1264414625&type=3&theater
So DY’s ex came to see baby Kiara.
I think the reason Desiree did not name the school as a party is because she knows they can’t provide her with any answers. Sure, the school was negligent in allowing this to happen and not having a clue how or why, but she doesn’t give a hoot about going after them or about collecting any money. She firmly believes that Terri, and only Terri, can provide information leading to the discovery of what happened to Kyron, and she’s doing whatever she has to in order to get that information.
I agree with you, but I think it is an error in strategy for the goal.
B
DY said something about they all tried to get along for the children’s sake
And I believe that
With the boys being half brothers
And little Kiara being Kyron’s half sister
It just makes family sense to me
Word Girl says:
September 13, 2012 at 2:06 am
Hey, JoJo. I hope you’ll take Blink up on her quasi-offer to edit. I have offered, but my word usage–syntax, et al–isn’t exactly laudatory. Usually I can spel pretty good, tho’ and if I let too much snark go by, cd has my back.
————–
You betcha, lol
Who got arrested in 1993
I can’t understand that last post Blink
There probaly are more than one Desiree in Oregon
And more than one DRD
But what’s the odds they are together
Not that I don’t believe they are different people
It is just real strange
Like lots of stuff
@RedRose says:
September 13, 2012 at 12:58 pm
I could be wrong, but IIRC, Desiree & Terri were not friends before Kaine & Terri connected. I recall an interview where Desiree herself debunked said rumor. The rumor was started with a news interview of one of Kristian Horman’s ex-wives, Amanda Howards:
Kyron moved in full time with his dad, now 36, an engineer at Intel. With a demanding job at the company’s Jones Farm campus in Hillsboro, where he works in the architecture group, Kaine needed child care. So, Desiree’s friend Terri moved in to help.
“Someone had to watch the baby,” said Amanda Howards, the former wife of Kaine’s brother Kristian. “Terri was her friend. She moved in just to help with the baby.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_blended_family_f.html
Desiree later on, says in an interview that “Terri can’t even tell the truth about how she met Kaine”. Thing is, the article didn’t quote Terri, it quoted Kaine’s brother’s ex-wife. So, my guess is, Terri Horman was not the only one telling stories out of school about how she met Kaine. So was Kaine. I think it’s the story the two of them told all their family. Which fits right in with Desiree’s description of Kaine cheating on her with Terri while they were still together, and yet Kaine says no, they were really living together but going their own ways. Seems like more than one person has trouble admitting the truth here.
I’m not saying they’d never met, but according to Desiree they were NOT friends. I can’t find the link right now to that interview, but I can look for it later.
The name thing is going to make me go batty…Harmon, Horman, Hanson, Hansen, Logan(adopted name), Logan(maiden name),Karin, Karyn, Potter, Porter, David, Davis, Davidson, Dodd, DAD(Mom),DAD(fugitive),DAD(odd note left),not even to go to all the KH names include one with different last name than his brothers. While going over the list again there was an SP that I knew was just another cosmic co-inky and I would not allow myself to go there. Perhaps it was my trying to understand what the heck Jung meant yesterday, but I have to admit I have no idea anymore where this leads but if it is ever solved it will be an ah ha moment and simple.
You all remember the murdered “Trejo” from last year, RIGHT?
Interesting the timing of AMW also airing this info.
SNIP>
BEAVERTON, OR (KPTV) – America’s Most Wanted is trying to help track down a local attempted murder suspect.
The crew from the TV show was in town last month filming an episode about Mauricio Beltran-Trejo, 35.
****************************
http://www.kptv.com/story/19537217/beaverton-attempted-murder-case-on-americas-most-wanted
11. RedRose says:
September 13, 2012 at 1:11 pm
*********************
Just to avoid confusion,
I was referencing something else,
was referencing SZ facial recognition.
So tomorrow night, Kyron on the Lifetime channel . . .
Friday, September 14
9pm Eastern / 8pm Central
America’s Most Wanted
Darn, I have no access to watch. Hopefully someone will record and post.
This is how crazy it makes me…I went back and looked at the letter. To Daddy… DAD Desiree A. Davidson…DY Desiree Young…and DAD underlined. Is that like a scarab at the window?
Ode, that letter drove me crazy too. And I never even came up with your version. This whole case is like being on a merry go round, or maybe even a ferris wheel, where one is looking at the same thing but everything looks different the higher up you go, and round and round and round. Also the reason I try not to use initials here as much, too many K’s, D’s, etc. Who is SP?
***********
Can anyone verify that Kyron’s case will be on tomorrow, because I just looked this morning at the 3 hours (3 different episodes) scheduled for AMW tomorrow night on Lifetime and it didn’t mention his case on any of the highlights.
Get ready, Ode, et. al.
I just stumbled across this. Gregory McCullough’s mother’s maiden name……Hansen. Any connections to the other Hansens….IDK.
2. Patsy Jane Hansen. born 4 May 1344
manied James Robert McCullough, born 30 Aug 1344
1. Robert Scott McCullough, born 31 Dec 1966
married 15 Sep 1989 to Verena Bird. born 29 Jul
1970
1. Mari
2. Nat
2. Gregory James McCullough, born 3 May 1969
married 15 Oct 1W, Medford, OR to Desired
Davidson, born 29 Apr 1972
1. Quin
http://www.dakotadirksens.com/books/AbrahamToews_AgFalk_400317.pdf
And the names just keep on turning up round and round and round.
KH and Greg McCullough were both men married to and had children with Desiree Davidson McCullough Horman Young. Both men were given custody of their respective children, at the same time, and if we are to assume the worst of the situation, perhaps she entered rehab (and kudos to anyone that gets the help they need, btw).
Thing is, the alliance between these men after they divorced her is what happens. I have seen it happen, no surprise to me that KH and GM are buds. Go in front of a family court judge and bring in someones ex who declares the same things (true or not) and it’s two against one. KH looked to be preparing for such a battle.
If the MFH is true, this divorce was going to make The War of the Roses look amicable.
My take away from Jung in relation to this case, is there was this perfect custody storm brewing, and then some random perp enters the picture and steals this child from a school (who I believe should be on the public record about how this could even happen, if for no other reason than prevention). The “family” was fighting over Kyron, and someone from the outside comes in and steals Kyron, no connection. Pasta and cheese, everywhere.
@Ode
I am in the same boat which makes me wonder if this DRD
Shortened his name to Davis
Just a thought
@Ode
There is also Dede
D and K
Everywhere
I don’t think we can infer the 2 men were buds, or that any of the 3 families woukd’ve chosen to eat in a diner together absent a Court order sating those 2 boys had to be taken to Desiree once a month & holidays. That’s a brutal round trip drive and imo the “halfway meeting” was not for convenience or friendliness but to comply reasonably with Court visitation order. After a long drive with young kids, and before driving back to Portland or the boys to the next leg to Medford, they needed to stretch legs, find the potty and fuel up for more driving. It appears Greg and Terri were cooperative about driving. We can’t infer more because this was Court ordered on them (or Greg & Kaine).
Amys Sister says:
September 13, 2012 at 11:57 am
mas says:
September 13, 2012 at 8:28 am
________
I simply do not believe that to be true. I believe the letter is real and was in fact left by the perp. I believe LE has the letter as evidence. The whole ‘psychic’ at the wall story (as posted on a forum and never critically evaluated)was never proven to be true and the media story that the letter was left by a homeless man (no follow up story ever took place and said homeless man must have vanished as he was never charged or interviewed)was never proven to be true, either.
*********
I physically know one of the women that was there and they stated along with the others and Dale stated she wrote and left the note.
You can believe what you want but that doesn’t make it a fact.
Did you see the pic of McCullough with teeny tiny Kiara?
Rose says:
September 13, 2012 at 5:51 pm
T.Ruth says:
“Can anyone verify that Kyron’s case will be on tomorrow, because I just looked this morning at the 3 hours (3 different episodes) scheduled for AMW tomorrow night on Lifetime and it didn’t mention his case on any of the highlights.”
T.Ruth,
Kyron’s case is mentioned in the show/episode description on the Lifetime schedule (can’t direct link it, though):
(snip)
“And the search for Kyron Horman continues, 2 years after the eight-year-old vanished from his school grabbing national headlines and raising suspicions that his step-mother could be involved in his disappearance.”
http://www.mylifetime.com/lifetime-tv-schedule
* Select Friday 09/14
* the left column has America’s Most Wanted #39
* click on “more” for full description
Did I earlier read that KY was unhappy with TMH because of weight gain? Is that enough reason for a divorce? (unless someone else was waiting to be #3) The 7-year pattern makes one also wonder, but I don’t think it applies here.
The MFH wasn’t initiated by TMH, was it? I thought it was LE working with the landscaper (could be wrong – so many characters, it’s hard to keep people straight)
So …what if KH (no, I don’t really think so – I’m just wondering)”stashed” Kyron (“could be anywhere, maybe for up to five years”). It would really explain his unenthusiastic cooperation with LE at the start, maybe even now.
…and what if (no, I also don’t think so) TMH is he victim of a “set-up” with just enough guilt about something else that she failed the lie detector tests?
…and what if SZ isn’t really a SZ at all, but someone who was ‘helping out a friend’?
Of course, this is all Totally JMO. But we are looking at all angles and Blnk was very adamant that SZ was a PERV.
The other thing I wondered is if someone – on their own – decided that both DY and TMH were not “the perfect mother” and made their own decisions.
I guess we won’t know until we know. Meanwhile, I hope Kyron is safe somewhere.
Whoever wrote it earlier was 100% correct — everyone only cares about covering their own behinders and doesn’t give any thought at all to a lost little boy.
By the way, does anyone know how and when TY and DY got together?
@erose says:September 13, 2012 at 5:02 pm
….Thing is, the alliance between these men after they divorced her is what happens. I have seen it happen, no surprise to me that KH and GM are buds. Go in front of a family court judge and bring in someones ex who declares the same things (true or not) and it’s two against one. KH looked to be preparing for such a battle.
If the MFH is true, this divorce was going to make The War of the Roses look amicable.
My take away from Jung in relation to this case, is there was this perfect custody storm brewing, and then some random perp enters the picture and steals this child from a school (who I believe should be on the public record about how this could even happen, if for no other reason than prevention). The “family” was fighting over Kyron, and someone from the outside comes in and steals Kyron, no connection. Pasta and cheese, everywhere.
T. Ruth!!! The Lifetime channel website shows the 9:00 episode is a Portland-based one, with another case and Kyron’s. Linky here (I hope): http://www.mylifetime.com/lifetime-tv-schedule My DVR is set!
Those photos on Terri’s facebook link from above….from May and June 2010…such seemingly normal activites, happy smiles…where did it go so wrong? Kiara is one of the most squee-able kiddos I’ve seen in a while. And yet Terri (chooses to not/cannot/will not???) be with that adorable child because she doesn’t want to incriminate herself? For 2+ years? WHY? The refrigerator is covered with spaghetti.
Aw, shoot! The link didn’t go directly to the Friday night schedule afterall. But that’s an easy click to see!
@erose. I’ve already lost it in my senility & can’t remember the Hansens.
Other, splintered, family groups, both neighborhood & relatives,
with divorces & family anomalies worry me more.
@ Rose
I don’t think we can infer the 2 men were buds, or that any of the 3 families woukd’ve chosen to eat in a diner together absent a Court order sating those 2 boys had to be taken to Desiree once a month & holidays. That’s a brutal round trip drive and imo the “halfway meeting” was not for convenience or friendliness but to comply reasonably with Court visitation order. After a long drive with young kids, and before driving back to Portland or the boys to the next leg to Medford, they needed to stretch legs, find the potty and fuel up for more driving. It appears Greg and Terri were cooperative about driving. We can’t infer more because this was Court ordered on them (or Greg & Kaine).
*********************************************************************
Look at pics from Terri’s birthday party at Mexican restaurant, is that not the wife of Greg McCullough in the first pic (Amy McCullough). Seems to me there is a friendship.
The Hansen’s were parents of Logan Storm aka Burgess Hansen, not really in the “hood” but the Storms were.
Rose says:
September 13, 2012 at 7:01 pm
T. Ruth says:
September 13, 2012 at 4:24 pm
Get ready, Ode, et. al.
I just stumbled across this. Gregory McCullough’s mother’s maiden name……Hansen. Any connections to the other Hansens….IDK.
*****
It is official, I think we are in some kinda of Dante’s circle of hell for bloggers with these names.
@Rose, To your main point, I totally agree. Just a lot of adults and no one had their eyes on the ball, not even the adults at the school.
snip> “Other, splintered, family groups, both neighborhood & relatives, with divorces & family anomalies worry me more.”
I should be the last one to question the relationship between ex spouses and family relationships. Tomorrow I am going to “Grandparent’s Day” as representation for a dearly loved little girl who is the daughter of my brother-in-law’s ex wifes second husband’s son who is my nephews brother but no blood to our family. I am proud to be her step in Grandmother and could not love her more or her father than my own children. Go figure.
Desiree is acting in the only way left to her at this point..Kaine has already tried this method of putting Terri between a rock and a hard space..kudos to him..and now Desiree has exhausted most of her options..and she still needs to act on her desparation and feelings toward Terri and her need to find her son..this civil suit..as flawed as it may be in getting the results she wants is still an action..kudos to her…many would be in a puddle on the floor.
I think this is one more message to Terri..Desiree is watching her and relentless in bringing Kyron home and gaining justice for him. Warts and all..Desiree is willing to put Terri on notice and keep her there.
Will this work to Desiree’s advantage..only time will tell. Because I do not believe Terri acted alone..someone, somewhere will drop a dime on some else..that’s about the only way this will be solved. Maybe someone will get tired of having to cover for an old friend, maybe they will run out of money for lawyers to represent them while depos are taken, maybe someone will just say..heck I helped and knew..but I didn’t carry out the act..then Terri’s jig is up.
@erose, my fav researcher & analyst right behind Blink, with beejay as a peer.
imo politicians hold babies just like that.
He did transport.
He coordinated with Terri on driving days.
He seems affable and personable.
He scored excellently on marriage 2. Gid bless him.
BUT, I do NOT think he or Kaine would’ve done that
long round trip drive
but for a Court visitation order. Complying pleasantly with Court orders on
a significant driving & child burden may make suffering bedfellows, but not buds.
Also, even short weekend visitations near the home neighborhood, but not in it,
outside of a child’s routine burden a childs’ (home)work, sports, & social opportunities.
The best interests of these children was in no ones’ mind, even family courts’.
I always thought men have no problem acting like best buds any time
There they talking sports and so on
In any sitting
I am woman however
I thank you.
B
MockingbirdSings says:
September 13, 2012 at 11:16 am
Ode says:
September 13, 2012 at 8:55 am
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1113776765669.2019463.1264414625#!/photo.php?fbid=1113779565739&set=a.1113776765669.2019463.1264414625&type=3&theater
So DY’s ex came to see baby Kiara.
———————————————
Thanks for the link. I assume (seem to remember) Amy is his wife and Cassidy, his child. It seems to me this was a friendly group of parents who met at a restaurant each time they exchanged kids. I don’t think they just switched cars in the parking lot. Maybe Greg was also helping to transport kids since Kaine and Terri couldn’t during that time. Interesting picture of Terri with glasses and looking thinner than I would expect right after birth.
——————————————————–
Hi MBS~
Are you talking about the lady in the red shirt? That isn’t TMH, I don’t think Terri is in any of the pics on that page. Her hair really resembles Terri, though!