Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
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@vw. Not having seen the motion you refer to containing those 2 numbers, it sounds like a document whereby defense asked DA to disclose what it had on line 1 on 6/26 relating to the 911 calls for both the mfh RS visit and the 911 nonemergency call that date on Kaine absconding with Kiara, so that makes that no. the cell Terri carried or the landline. Second line no sounds like anything DA had on custody issue from line 2 which imo would be the texts exchanged from that no. with Cook. So line 2 could’ve been Terri or Kaine’s cell. you’ll send the photo to Blink’s photobucket later this week?
Rose says: November 6, 2012 at 8:08 am (snipped)
“@wpg. excellent thought. Dec17-19 911 related to Kaine. Who knows if
Mothers Day story is true or if Terri called 911 that day.”
Rose,
I have no idea what the Dec17-19 911 was for . . . it was vw that said she heard a rumor it was for Kaine. vw also said that Houze wrote in a space on the request form “ambulance called”.
Possibly TH gave info to him but perhaps she didn’t remember the exact date in December – - – the 17th, 18th, or 19th. Also possible there was more than one 911 call over a 3-day span. idk, just don’t know.
vw also said Houze put in the 2 phone#’s for the December request (vw later said in another post these phone#’s were consistent with the #’s for the sting date request from Houze).
One is the house land-line, the other is a cell phone (Cingular aka AT&T) under KH’s name. It’s possible that TH had a cell phone under KH’s plan/name, so IDK who was the actual user of that particular phone# – - KH or TH. Also don’t know, during an emergency situation,
who grabbed who’s cell phone to make a 911 call.
Could be there were 2 callers for 911 at the same time – - one using a cell, the other the house phone – - or maybe TH doesn’t remember or know which phone was used so Houze entered both phone#’s.
snip from article re: June 26, 2010
note – - article published prior to the story breaking of “the sting”:
“Details emerge in Horman family 9-1-1 calls”
Published: Jun 30, 2010 at 4:16 PM PST
“There was not one but two 9-1-1 calls placed from Kyron Horman’s home last Saturday night, the Bureau of Emergency Communications confirmed Wednesday.
A log of the calls revealed the first report came in at 5:18 p.m. and lasted 13 minutes. Dispatchers said it came as a report of threats being made in the family’s home on Sheltered Nook Road in Northwest Multnomah County.
The second 9-1-1 call was made from the home at 11:39 p.m. and was recorded by dispatchers as a child custody issue.” (end snip)
article and video
http://www.katu.com/news/local/97533749.html
@rose/wpg
Have to go help my sister. But try the following link. I don’t have the calls on this computer, but will add them later. This new blog is where i’ll put Kyron info and not my personal travel pics for now. I don’t have a photobucket. This document I just put on it did NOT get into the Oregonian during the abatement of the suit discussion. It’s the renewal of this year’s FAPA. It explains why in my mind TMH, and now Dede, will probably never get receprocal evidence to fight the fapa/divorce/suit. Will Wagner find a way to win anyway. Maybe. Will Bunch? Less than maybe?
http://vwoolfexploresthenorthwest.blogspot.com/
@NelMel says:
October 28, 2012 at 1:37 am
RE: Okay, deep breath, here goes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Girlfriend, you and I are on the same page! Thank you..thank you…thank you for this post!
@rose/erose/blink
K. Found my new iphoto program. The Houze’s requests are now legible. Added a second post to that new blog, above.
Now…I really gotta run so i’m back afore the girl gets home from school. Sis is only 46 but hip spontaneosly fxd!
http://multnomah.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?meta_id=27018&view=&showpdf=1
(snipped)
The Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office is leading the ongoing investigation for Kyron Horman, a 7 year old student of Skyline Elementary School who disappeared from the school on Friday, June 4, 2010. To date the Sheriff’s Office has received $35,130.93 in donations from members of the public in support of the Kyron Horman investigation. This resolution is a financial housekeeping step so that the donated Kyron Horman funds can be applied to the purpose for which they were donated by the general public.
**************
This really makes me wonder if someone was trying to get this money for other purposes. Such as, Desiree for the civil case or Kaine to add to the Kyron Horman Foundation. Sheriff Staton at one point said he would be getting together with the family to decide what to do with this particular set of funds. (I know when I heard that, since I donated, that ticked me off because I earmarked this money specifically for search and rescue efforts to find Kyron and/or any other missing child.) In any case, why was this necessary “housekeeping” as they are referring to it? Why was there ever a doubt as to what the public intended this money to be used for? I found this old article saying that only 8,000 had been used and the rest, would be going into the “general fund”. So, now I see it is being put back toward Kyron’s investigation. Article as of October 3, 2010:
As of Sunday, The Oregonian reported that $85,500 had been raised for Kyron-related efforts. Our assignment desk editor spoke to Desiree Young by phone Sunday afternoon. (Two different funds, Reward $50k & the BofA $35k+)
Young tells us the fund raising breaks down to nearly $30,000 in a fund maintained by the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office for search-and-rescue and investigation costs. In an interview with KATU Reporter Anna Canzano in September, Multnomah County Search and Rescue Coordinator Diana Olson identified this fund as a Bank of America account.
As of early September, none of the sheriff’s Bank of America fund had been spent. At the time Sgt. Olson said it had not been determined whether the sheriff’s office account would go toward reimbursing search and rescue costs that had already been incurred. It has since been decided that $8,000 of that fund will go to search and rescue costs, with the rest going into the sheriff’s office general fund for investigation expenses, according to The Oregonian’s Sunday report.
The reward fund reportedly was seeded by a $50,000 anonymous donation. Young tells us all reward-money donations are being handled by the sheriff’s office.
**********
What I’m still not seeing is a statement by LE or anyone else that there is no longer a reward for information leading to Kyron’s return, nor am I seeing anywhere that there still is one. (i.e., the $50k that was anonymously donated. If that reward has been lifted, then I find that truly significant. So could it mean, whomever donated it, reallocated it to another purpose for discovery, such as perhaps contributing it to Desiree’s civil proceedings? Or maybe whomever donated it in the first place has decided that this is all about custody and simply pulled their donation. Or does this person/entity that donated anonymously have information that leads them to believe one of the parties know where Kyron is? Hmmmm? Without knowing who put it up in the first place it’s hard to say, but if it’s truly gone, it certainly makes one wonder why. Does that often happen in cases? Do reward funds for information leading to a missing person, just up and disappear?
Can this case get any more strange….wait, don’t answer that.
Did anyone ever see a pic of that creeper
Some one said he had a white truck a long time ago
Some of his posts are getting to sound real sick in the head
oops, forgot the link to the October 2010 article:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/104248539.html
I’m confused, the 703 prefix shows as Portland, wireless. Where are we getting Banks?
http://phones.whitepages.com/503?page=5
@VW, thanks for the documents and taking your time to help find Kyron. Hope your sister is doing okay, ouch.
@MBS
I think to be having a baby that was not really
Exciting to Dad would depress any women
Kaine should deal with his issues
@VW
Great site
And we like the same movies
@VW
And the same books
I hope your sister is doing OK today
Are you saying/thinking the 6076 is the cell phone registered to KH? and the other number is the house landline?
wpg says:
November 6, 2012 at 10:07 am
snip>
One is the house land-line, the other is a cell phone (Cingular aka AT&T) under KH’s name.
Posts are lagging?? I know you’re out voting. LOL
OT @TRuth. worked in a swing State, not mine, til 7.
One 25 yo came from Portland to volunteer. It
was hard not to ask her opinion on Kyron’s abduction.
Met a 50 yo volunteer lady who came from Seattle.
I wish locals would take steps to begin organizing now for the next mcso
election even tho it’s 2 years out. . if you get some citizens to work together,
just a handful of people will do, you can plan for
candidates’ forums as soon as the filing date’s past, and have ready
among the questions how the Sheriff candidates would
handle this investigation, work with the public etc.
Good to be in a position to organize forums and then also
organize candidate forums & take such questions to County Commissioner candidates
too. ie, Skyline Citizens for Community Safety.
(Nonpartisan) SkylineVoters.com, and so on.
set up a website & a yahoo groups for communication.
And ally with other interest groups to hold the candidate forums. that’s the best place
for locals to ask their questions of LE & county officials.
@vw. TY for pic. It amazes me that if criminal charges had been filed, if these were exculpatory, DA is obligated to release. But in a civil action where the Judge relies on LE representing secondhand criminal act precludes any contact with a child via RO, these records will not be released by the Sheriff. That stinks because it could happen to any citizen whose spouse wants to take the kid & get an OR if that spouse has previously called 911 on him, if the taking spouse is politically connected.
Which gets to why the Judge, LE, no one, has ever referred the case of the Horman children to CPSD to do an eval. Then a worker could go read those 911 calls, interview the Detective so the secondhand statement doesn’t come thru Kaine, talk to teachers & neighbors, etc. And if no one wanted to refer Horman kids to cpsd as neglect or abuse, then those workers do one shot court reports all the time, especially for out of State Courts, investigating custody issues, and it doesn’t take mental health exams for parties or treatment for a cpsd investigator to go out and get some basic facts for the Judge and put it in a report. And previous 911 calls involving “the family” would def be if interest. Thus Judge was there long enough, he knows how to task Child Welfare to do a simple study & give him a one shot report. So imo a lot here is political, and it is probably eggshells around Intel.
Anyway, per the document, Terri made the approx 10 am call, both parents were home, and the medical emergency involved “the family.” You’d think Desiree would want to know if Kyron was involved and would’ve filed for this long ago.
My posts take longer to go up but I think it is because I have 2iphones
And use which ever one is charged up at the time
Gosh, now I can’t post at all. Reposted and it said you’ve already said that. Thought maybe it was the links so replaced a dot or two, still won’t come up. Help????
I am on the case, I cleared spam, looking now T.Ruth.
I will demand a recount if necessary, lol.
B
MBS:
Happy Birthday! Your post made me laugh. I too have often thought I’d do the same if I went to one of Kaine’s events!
Cindy:
There would be no reason for Baby K to have A GAL. A judge appoints GAL’s when a child has been removed from their homes due to abuse or neglect.
Mods, still have 5 posts hanging out from yesterday, as well as one that wouldn’t post at all, when it said I did. Maybe it’s a hanging chad problem. LOL
Grrr.
LOL
B
Thank you Blink.
Is the 6076 number the same phone used in the sext sting?
In the documents that Terri’s attorney’s were requesting the 911 calls stated December 17-19, 2009. Went back to look at TMH’s FB pictures during the period of December 17-19. She was posting pictures of the Zoo Christmas light show with her and Kiara and other friends and their children. Noticeably absent in those photos, Kaine, James & Kyron. Don’t know when they actually attended the event, but her last picture posted on the 18th was a Friday @ 11:09 p.m. Makes me wonder if she was staying up waiting for Kaine to come home from somewhere else. She doesn’t continue posting those pictures until December 22, 7:45 a.m. Then no more pictures posted until January 8, most all of Christmas, which looked wonderful
Also, wondering where were James & Kyron that night. Appeared to be a family-type outing.
Blink
I should use only this one phone to get the posts
To post??
That is my best guess
I never get upset if my posts don’t get on
But wondered if jumping from phone to phone is my problem
Some of you were discussing this picture the other day.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/29/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-kaine-horman-files-for-restraining-order-and-divorce-from-terri-horman/
Did this picture originally come from Terri’s FB account or Kaine’s? Do we know for sure? Just wondering if Blink knows, since she used it here?
Ya’ll were discussing what the significance of a picture such as this might mean in regards to both Kaine & Terri, what I’d like to know is who took it?
I found a picture from June 2009 on Terri’s FB, where it looks like the same place with Kaine in the same shirt drinking some beers with a guy named Geoff Lowery, however I don’t see the one Blink used of Terri & Kaine with the *boob grab*. Also, does anyone recognize the pub they are in?
Someone once said that in the beginning of this case, Terri’s photos showed none of the ones now, that show Kyron, etc. and then suddenly it was closed down and then reappeared with all these nice family photos.
I didn’t have a FB account in the beginning, so I do not know if this was accurate or not. Is it possible the first FB photos were not really Terri’s FB? Can someone manipulate another person’s facebook that easily? This has been bugging me since the beginning.
well I’m going from “Is Beejay OK?”
to “Is Blink?”
new noreaster & all that.
@TRuth. Well, I looked at yr pic link.
not a pic I felt like viewing when discussed.
But, in respect, I took a look.
imo his eyes are blitzed-ish; hers are clear.
He has on what are “short shorts” for a man.
Her hand likely on his leg?
His hair skacky; hers groomed.
His tshirt–starr industries? stark industries?
I fantasized the tshirt from an israeli co based in germany due to his travels.
one possibility: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_Industries
i think maybe the breast thing is not the most telling aspect of pic.
@TRuth. Could’ve easily been a Medford weekend for Kyron, with Kaine driving him there on 12/18.
Since the call was 10 am, Sat 12/19 makes sense.
and maybe if Kaine/Kyron drove to
Medford, James did the Tarvers. Which would
mean Terri Kaine & Kiara would be “the family”
on 12/19.
http://m.kaboodle.com/reviews/iron-man-stark-industries-t-shirt
@Truth
Don’t know when they actually attended the event, but her last picture posted on the 18th was a Friday @ 11:09 p.m. Makes me wonder if she was staying up waiting for Kaine to come home from somewhere else. She doesn’t continue posting those pictures until December 22, 7:45 a.m. Then no more pictures posted until January 8, most all of Christmas, which looked wonderful
Also, wondering where were James & Kyron that night. Appeared to be a family-type outing.
******
Hi. Thank you for posting the FB page. I saw one, once, but didn’t know how valid it was. When I first saw that call I thought the kids might be with their bio families for the holidays.
Often that happens in blended families. One does Thanksgiving, other does x-mas vaca.
Ky and James would be in Medford and Roseburg? PPS is usually on break for 2 weeks and doesn’t resume until after the first of January.
I saw some pics somewhere of an x-mas with the Moultons. I think it was in Portland. Guess it wasn’t 2009.
Why would Houze want this info if it was just a routine bout with a medical scare? Might have been, but why would MCSO then deny access to it? How would/could that relate to the “investigation” unless TMH, in caring for her ill husband, would be shown as NOT caring to “OFF” him at that moment? And just after the alledged MFH? Seems she would have saved a lot of bucks. ????
Just thinking.
Rose says:
November 6, 2012 at 9:32 pm
@vw. TY for pic. It amazes me that if criminal charges had been filed, if these were exculpatory, DA is obligated to release. But in a civil action where the Judge relies on LE representing secondhand criminal act precludes any contact with a child via RO, these records will not be released by the Sheriff. That stinks because it could happen to any citizen whose spouse wants to take the kid & get an OR if that spouse has previously called 911 on him, if the taking spouse is politically connected.
********
Yes, it could happen to any of us. Our children, our possessions could be taken away and without reciprical evidence or a judge willing to insist on “proof” and go against the executive branch we would lose by default.
How does the legislative branch deal with this? It’s not ok in a “criminal” trial, but it’s OK in a civil. Why. Why should the stakes be any different?
I hope in years to come this case makes it’s way to a court that can read the constitution into this. We should have a right to “..confront our accuser” in any case where a mother’s and a child’s future depends on it. Not talking about guilt or not guilt here. But if TMH is guilty it should be proven BEFORE she or her child lose.
Notice the light fixture in this picture, compare to light fixureds in the picture of KH & TH. Pretty sure the boob picture was taken at The Bottoms Up Tavern. (BTW, that is no way to hold or touch a boob, IMO).
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=bottoms+up+tavern+portland&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&qscrl=1&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS366US366&biw=1104&bih=586&tbm=isch&tbnid=xOrL7WttUdw0tM:&imgrefurl=http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php%3Ftopic%3D8825.580&docid=fzHSq9Y6BBl-uM&imgurl=http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs173.ash2/41674_100000061340654_6717_n.jpg&w=200&h=145&ei=kzGbULisOoKEiwKtw4Eg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=331&sig=117600040896103138405&page=1&tbnh=116&tbnw=155&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:86&tx=104&ty=42
Speaking of TM’s FB pics – I just have to say, I look at her Easter album with Kyron and Kaine being silly, the Mother’s Day album with roses & card, and a few other albums with smiles, and it’s just hard to see those pictures and imagine the ‘serious control freak unnatentive suspicious husband’ that so many on Internet have decided is likely (OLive, for example). Pictures can absolutely be deceiving, I understand that…and this is not anti or pro, no negative comments about anyone, just an observation. Made me happy and sad to see Ky’s big smile over and over in the pics. Someone please bring this boy home. Sigh.
with Kaine’s shorter shorts in the pic,
it was more likely taken in June than Dec.
maybe after an ironman event
Since Stark Industries is a spoof on Lockheed’s (CA skunkworks) logo, I looked to see if Lockheed has Intel contracts.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2012/september/isgs-solas-cloud-0927.html next to last paragraph.
Looks like Lockheed is a big time govt & defense industry provider of cloud computing, cyber security etc
based on Intel tech. What work group did Kaine head? He likely has a security clearance, would be touchy about any publicity whatsoever when Kyr was kidnapped, report it to security at Intel, and would be experienced at work site
polys. A motivation to keep any untoward behaviors quiet as well.
what is the link to these pic albums & do you have to be a FB member to view?
Imo Terri ought to open it up to public.
KH was granted an ex parte “emergency” TRO.
This is far from being unheard of and legally occurs when circumstances request and require it.
I don’t believe the courts grant these “emergency” TRO’s lightly nor without the court judge seeking some level of input from LE.
IMO, in this case THE SAFETY OF THE TODDLER CHILD was of PARAMOUNT CONCERN to the court.
TH and her legal, for whatever reason(s), chose NOT TO CONTEST the TRO during the initial legal response time or at any time such as the “renewal” dates and (to my knowledge) NEVER FILED ANY LEGAL MOTIONS to contest.
Her legal team verbalized concerns to Judge Meissner at the early court hearings, BUT NEVER FOLLOWED THROUGH WITH THE LEGAL FILINGS – - the necessary legal and court-required route Bunch and Houze are no doubt fully aware of.
TH and her legal team CHOSE NOT to exercise her legal right(s) to contest.
Reciprocal discovery was thereby forfeited.
And most sadly and incomprehensible to me, so was the toddler child.
Seriously, woman or man, LE comes to you regarding an alleged murder for hire solicited by your spouse, your partner, to END YOUR LIFE . . . what would YOU do?
If you were also a parent, what would you do?
And what would you expect and hope for from the Courts?
If it was me . . . an emergency TRO.
Clarification:
“And most sadly and incomprehensible to me, so was the toddler child BY THE/HER MOTHER”
@ January 11/7/12 at 3:02 a.m.
I don’t know Oregon divorce law, but in Ohio, it is common for GAL’s to be appointed in divorce cases where the custody of the children is an issue with the removal of a child for abuse or neglect.
erose says:
November 7, 2012 at 10:44 pm
(BTW, that is no way to hold or touch a boob, IMO).
@erose – my sentiments exactly – you said it plainer than I did, so I wanted to strongly agree. IMO, it makes him look like he’s reacting to a comment from someone else, not thinking specifically about what he’s doing.
Re Dec. 19th – if there had been any indication of domestic violence, one of them would have been arrested (or both in some cases) – it’s mandatory in Oregon. So it doesn’t seem to me that would have been the cause of a 911 call with an ambulance.
An ambulance does not have to transport you anywhere unless they have started an IV or some other life threatening condition exists. They will do a brief exam, but you can decline to be transported and do your own follow-up instead.
Perhaps the ambulance was called for a child or for someone who was visiting and had chest pains. If Kyron was with Desiree, she may not be concerned about what went on.
Last thought – did Kyron ever spend the night anywhere else such as with a friend, or another relative? And have we always assumed James did ALL the babysitting? I remember discussing that ages ago, but I don’t remember ever settling on answers.
Cindy says:
November 8, 2012 at 9:12 am
@ January 11/7/12 at 3:02 a.m.
I don’t know Oregon divorce law, but in Ohio, it is common for GAL’s to be appointed in divorce cases where the custody of the children is an issue with the removal of a child for abuse or neglect.
———————-
Oregon is not inclined to appoint a GAL if a child has a competent parent available to be responsible. I have worked with a family where the infant had his own attorney (not GAL) and was in DHS custody with a foster parent because both parents were unable to care for him. What sometimes sounds like a simple solution, is often more complicated case by case.
Just speculating ….What if those 911 calls had do with a MFH attempt that went wrong, and the two of them needed to cook up a story so LE wouldn’t get involved?
I haven’t been following too closely, so don’t know if all of their children were home at that time or not. (Does anyone have a timeline anywhere of who was where on which days and times?)
@vw says: November 7, 2012 at 9:44 pm
@Truth
Why would Houze want this info if it was just a routine bout with a medical scare? Might have been, but why would MCSO then deny access to it? How would/could that relate to the “investigation” unless TMH, in caring for her ill husband, would be shown as NOT caring to “OFF” him at that moment? And just after the alledged MFH? Seems she would have saved a lot of bucks. ????
Just thinking.
@ Cindy,
I am in WA State. In most divorce cases a GAL is not needed. Although I completely understand what you are saying, there is no record of child abuse or neglect with either of the Horman children. Personally, I wish “missing” were assigned a GAL, but not sure why baby K would need one.
Rose says:
November 8, 2012 at 8:15 am
what is the link to these pic albums & do you have to be a FB member to view?
Imo Terri ought to open it up to public.
**********
Yes, you need a FB account to view. Seems there were more before, but I could be wrong. I too, feel very disheartened when I go back and look at these photos. EVERYONE looks so happy…..EVERYONE. (June 2009 is the album with the photo I referred to above, posted June 30.) I guess no one takes pictures when things aren’t going well, IDK, the family looks straight out of Leave It To Beaver or something. It’s just so sad.
https://www.facebook.com/terri.horman/photos_albums
@Rose
Maybe Kaine did drive the boys down on Friday December 18, 2009. And maybe he didn’t return home until Saturday morning December 19, 2009, and an infidelity fight ensued. Who knows? We’re all just guessing in the wind.
Just trying to think of a reason Bunch/Houze would want this particular 911 call. I find it interesting that Bunch/Houze requested this, but don’t know the exact date. When they requested it, the call was only like 7 prior. Would Terri not know when and why she called 911? I mean, I can see forgetting exactly what time it was when she called, thus the 10:00 am question mark. But wouldn’t you remember what day of the week it was? Like, it was a Friday, it was a Saturday, it was the day after we saw the Christmas light show, whateveh. Even if she didn’t make the call herself, so long as she was home, one would think one would remember which day of the week it was that an ambulance showed up at your house. (Unless it was common place.)
Weird.
I was going to say that maybe Terri Horman didn’t place the call, but it was someone else, maybe James. Maybe she wasn’t even home, but it says in the paperwork that “Ms. Horman initiated these calls”, so how is it she could not remember when they happened? Weird, just weird.
LOL so funny about how to touch a breast
Looks like a show for the camera to me
A joke but out of line
If I had had that happen to me I would have been
Irritated
But she posted it so we differ