Kyron Horman Missing: Civil Suit Against Terri Horman DELAYED AND SEALED- Prompted By NEW LEADS
Portland, OR- As many of you have been following since June 2010, there is a new development today in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
As predicted at BOC, the civil suit brought by Deisree Young, Kyron’s Mother, against Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and the defacto suspect in his disappearance has been granted an abatement.
In a sealed filing, motions by Assistant District Attorney Michael Schrunk and Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton were granted, delaying the suit . The motions included supporting affidavits that continuing the action as already ruled would compromise the investigation.
The decision presents an ironic twist .
Terri Horman’s lawyers originally fought vehemently to abate the action, but were unsuccessful. As recently as last week, the Judge in the case ordered medical records to be accessible to both parties to the action.
In Judge Kantnor’s decision to NOT abate the suit at the request of Attorney Peter Bunch for Terri Horman, the Multnomah County Prosecutors Office declared “no position” on the matter after being contacted by the court.
It is not known if that order prompted the request to delay the suit .
Sheriff Stanton, Eldin Rosenthal, Norm Frink and Stephen Houze declined comment at press time.
On Monday, Judge Henry Kantor granted the motions to abate the civil proceeding and ordered the motions and affidavits filed by the district attorney and sheriff sealed.
A hearing had been scheduled for Dec. 14 to hear Young’s attorney argue before the court to compel testimony from DeDe Spicher, an alleged witness in the case. Today’s ruling is likely to render a postponement of that proceeding.
Sheriff Dan Staton, told Oregon Live, it is based on early leads that are now panning out:
“There are a couple of investigative pieces that are going to open up,” Staton told The Oregonian Tuesday. “Our belief is they’re going to open up several investigative doors.”
He said the new “investigative avenues” are based on information collected in the early phase of the investigation that are now yielding some results.
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“Nilesword” (R Neil Horman) has 20+ associated domain names.
http://reversewhois.domaintools.com/?email=bd2eacf31a43b10026d2d7d17245bf6c
Most names are registered with 1&1 Internet AG, which is a subsidiary of United Internet out of Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Internet
Couldn’t get it to work, but just tell me what it says. I know you’ll tell the TRuth.
T. Ruth says:
February 27, 2013 at 11:22 pm
T. Ruth says:
February 26, 2013 at 7:29 pm
Is this, or is not an accurate report?:
Eight-year-old Tanner Pumala says the first person to notice Kyron Horman missing was a substitute teacher who was taking a head count as the second and third grade class was **re-assembling after visiting other classrooms for a science fair at Skyline School last Friday.**
“And she was like ‘oh no where’s Kyron there’s only five’ and Mrs. Porter was like it’s okay calm down, calm down he’s probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she said alright I’m going to leave and she left, ” says Tanner Pumala.
But, Portland Public School spokesman Matt Shelby said the account can’t be true: “There were no substitutes at the school that day (the day Kyron disappeared),” he said.
*****************
Unfortunately, the above page is gone. Does that mean it was NOT accurate? It was never corrected while it was up. Would be nice to hear from that reporter.
Simple enough to say Tanner meant *chaperone* not *substitute*, that would throw out Shelby’s comment. But *after visiting other classrooms*.
*******************
Truth…. First, Matt Shelby was in a CYA mode for the first week. He knew the school was libel. That’s his job;was to present the school in the most favorable light and make little of human error.
Porter was wrong. And everyone from Tanner to those following this case know it. She didn’t mark him absent. She didn’t have a written excuse for him to be absent. She didn’t even remember about the “doctor’s” appointment until the middle of the next week. I’ve even heard that she was in charge of the Science Faire. Usually a teacher is in charge.
Regardless, the fact that there was no marking of the absence, no confirmation of the absence, and no confirmation of the the doctor’s appointment for at least 5 days is very telling, isn’t it?
Porter didn’t confront TMH at the office on June 4th. If she had the public would have known about the doctor’s appointment immediately, while it was “fresh” in her mind. She had probably already gone home. And, as others have noted, the secretary more than likely looked around, called Porter’s cell, and told TMH over the phone that Kyron wasn’t there. Promting the frantic visit to the school.
Kaine has gone on record at least once telling the public that they thought he, kyron, was waiting to be taken out for ice cream. He relays the moment without panic. Or at least he did until he co-scripted the event later in order to show himself as the one that was in a panic, instead of TMH, who was “lagging behind” metaphorically.
It was obvious from early records that TMH was frantic. That in the days following, according to James, she was hysterical.
There is no such “panic” in the stories given by Kaine, Desiree, and, especially the school.
Kyron was seen by someone who obviously knew him and TMH. That person contacted the office, LE, and/or TMH.
Can you imagine, if you were in a panic about finding your kid….you’d be at that office and demanding answers…right now! Where did he go? Who saw him? Why didn’t somone call me? He was right here…!
Who was the chaperone? Where is the principal? Go get that chaperone list!! Etc. Etc.
Why do you think Houze wants those calls from the school and not just the secretaries call?
That person who told TMH or someone in authority that they saw Kyron with a man and two girls was told to HUSH. And they did.
If they had known TMH personally, or believed her, and seen the aftermath of those accused of being her friends, would they have insisted on speaking again?
I go back to this- LE agencies involved in interviewing the attendee list and any peripheral potential witnesses on at least a handful of occasions I have been privy to absolutely named TMH as a suspect. Do you remember Kaine’s comments of “her and potentially one other person.”?
You cannot posture or temper a witness interview with such opinions and expect to get pure information to the best of the subject’s ability. Rod Underhill addressed same in the request for public assistance press conference the day after the grand jury was suspended. It is my personal belief that the above article quotes had reporter error attached. Young Tanner was either referring to a chaperone or some sort of perceived volunteer assistant that day. It is correct that there was no substitute that day, and substitute is the wrong word for that individual in the first place. I don’t know that TH was told about the man (this is plaid shirt guy Sam Adams tweeted about, btw) as opposed to her seeing him herself and not recognizing him, which would have been further confirmed by the volunteer sign in sheet. Keep in mind, this was of course all run by her as the alleged “last person to see him” and of course by agents confirming or discounting her facts during interview.
Obviously professional standards don’t allow me to discuss specifically some of the conversations I have had with reporters along the way in this case, but I think it is safe and fair to say that the climate initially was grossly competitive, and had a short to non-existent leash once Kaine starting booting reporters and playing faves against each other so to speak.
I can see why Pritkin switched careers in that climate.
This was the biggest news story that in effect went Nationally viral overnight ( well, within the first week) and ratings went through the roof.
Lastly, how do we think we learned that the phone call data from the school and whatever else was deleted, albeit indirectly?
I have been very vocal that Ms. Porter was interviewed and searching for possibilities and as a result the Dr. appt became the “masterplan” to extract Kyron from the school amidst the chaos that was a Science Fair.
Houze. He requested the data, which outside of the exemptions under the law are public record. He had to be informed that they no longer existed. I cannot even imagine that in an active mp case of a child. Truly.
When I read the WW piece on MCSO overtime, the light went on for me in that closet of simplicity I have been scavenging forever in this case.
Picture MCSO as a publicly traded company.
Picture it’s hedge fund and brokerages investor base as the taxpayers of Multnomah County, and then Fed tax payers as the etrade community, lol.
Who wants to deliver that 2010 annual report?
As a former agency gal specializing in “boutique” annual reports with a niche in pre and post IPO executive interviews as they relate to actual financial performance and forward looking statements, without hesitation Kyron’s face is on the cover.
B
You know, after doing hw with my kid (a pps student) and thinking about my above post to Truth:
It just occured to me. PPS has a lot of great teachers. And a lot of so-so or even incompetent teachers that unions won’t allow principals to hire. I’ve dealt with them all for over 14 years. Administrators too. Right now i’m dealing with the repercussions of both of my kids having had the same teacher in frosh science who, again, has had a “mental break-down” during the end of a semester. Because he’s protected by the union they still haven’t fired him. And for the second time, i’ve had a kid in limbo and at danger of failing a class because of a teacher melt-down. I’m a very alert parent, but other parents that are not so aware simply accept a grade that does not reflect their child’s work. Finally, I think, they will not let this teacher come back. But who knows. It takes a hell of a lot of “plans of assistance” to finally terminate a teacher.
I’m sure the union has a big part in the Kyron story too. The District’s Lawyers would be covering the lack of monitoring in place. The fact, btw, that Carol Smith, on Sunday, june 6th, came out to claim that FROM THIS DAY FORTH all schools will notifiy parents with the automated system, was grandstanding. Of course she was stating that the school was not operating proceedurally. Period.
They must be still thinking they were the luckiest district in the world. To not be sued after OBVIOUS negligence.
But that is what makes me pause. What does Kaine have to gain by not suing? He is such an obvious penny pincher.
Terri could not have sued even if she wanted to. Some detractors think this was her “motive”. Only the official parent can sue. So…why is Kaine so complacent?
Not sure, still. But I do think that there is a point to be made about TMH being the primary caretaker of Kyron. Neither birthparent had a clue about what it entails to be a working mom, a working dad that is really, truly involved in their child’s education. Most middle-income parents do, even if they are working full-time.
Those videos of Kyron at plays. At soccer. At swimming classes. Presenting book reports. Those connections with teachers about the color of “performance” cards who Kyron is friends with, has playdates with. Those appointments for glasses and registrations for soccer teams. The follow-ups on report cards. The volunteering to make sure one knows what’s happening in the classroom. The field-trip and special projects each year.
Do Desiree and Kaine ever talk about any of these? Did they even know the name of his teacher? Kaine didn’t even know, at first, if there was a talent show or if it was “in school” or open to the public.
I guess, what I am saying, is that Kaine and Desiree did not know enough to sue. That the time went by and they did not have a clue that the school was negllible because they had no idea, being absent parents, that there were even procedures in place that were ignored.
TMH did. She’d had a child go thru before, just like I did. So she knew what was not acceptable. And she could have made a lot of waves.
Except, that first weekend, at home, she had a few guests amidst all the other stress.
http://m.yelp.com/biz/1-and-1-internet-chesterbrook
A German parent Co? (didn’t Kaine travel there on business
for Intel?) and a US subsidiary based in Chesterbrook?
Terrible reviews. I remember one person from PA,
Portland, & WA we llooked into who set up a
number of computer hosting type subscription services.
Idk the relevance either except grandpa appears to have set up
and/or administered a Mason associate’s site of the nature Terri was thought
capable of producing. a retired seaman who lived in &
travels to AK. And travels to eastern Russia. Did Kyron
have sleepovers with grandparents in WA? Does Kiara?
can google
Barn dayton street studio edmonds
and click on about the 4th link down — Jerry’s Model Mayhem link — for directions to his studio, co-owned & run with Roger B (new fiddlers green photo owner; also Dayton Street Studio co-owner), located next door to Edmonds Masonic Temple. But don’t click if model mayhem nudes disgust you.?
Here’s a Yelp review:
http://www.meetup.com/models-network/venue/3487362/?offset=45&popup=true
guess I’m one of the old people a reviewer refers to.
What I read on Jerry’s description is they provide a model at their Edmonds Studio for nude shooting and throw out the welcome mat for shooter strangers on Meetup & MMayhem at $130/person, even providing a camera.
What I infer: if Terri wanted to do nude edgy shoots for strangers, as some have speculated on on less responsible blogs early on, she had to look no further than grandpa Horman’s Masonic brother for whom he apparently did website work based on isps & domain names; so she had no need to sneak around to “model.”
now the iphone is throwing
out a ? instead of a ! after some periods.
apologies. no ? intended about that link.
@vw
My question about that koin story is whether or not Kyron Horman assembled with the groups in the first place. If he did, there is no way he was last seen at 8:45, period. Now, that doesn’t mean Terri did actually leave at 8:45, but it would mean she was not the last person to see him, at least not at 8:45. Remember Terri said she last saw Kyron @ 8:45, but she says she actually left the school around 9:00.
I just want to know what time, for certain, Kyron was last seen and LE has been all over the place on this. Later in the morning, 9:00, 8:45. Which is it? That’s what still is an unknown. So, if that article is correct and he was put into a group, it obviously was sometime after 8:45.
Good for Houze to ferret out that pps records purging.
Pity the parents didn’t retain an attorney of Houze’ caliber
on June 5 to liaise with mcso. You know, it’s not beyond the
pale that Kaine, not Porter, was the first to raise with his LE
interviewers the possibility of a doctor’s appointment being behind
Porter’s failure to notice he was gone. He knew of an appointment,
one he disagreed with, just not when. If he was at school June 3,
he knew Terri gave Porter paperwork that day. If Tony or cops
told him usually it’s a family member, he knew it wasn’t himself, so
why not turn LE’s attention to her? He may’ve made that decision very
early, before the polys.
erose says:
February 28, 2013 at 1:16 am
Couldn’t get it to work, but just tell me what it says. I know you’ll tell the TRuth.
T. Ruth says:
February 27, 2013 at 11:22 pm
*************
Whois Domain Live Results for http://WWW.PROJECTCONTROLCONSULTANTS.COM :
28 Feb 2013, 18:11 pm GMT
Resolve Host: United_States.html
Owner: A Certain Panache, Inc
Projectcontrolconsultants.com Registered on: 13 June 2007
Projectcontrolconsultants.com Last Updated on: 13 June 2012
Projectcontrolconsultants.com Expires on: 12 June 2013
domain: projectcontrolconsultants.com
created: 13-Jun-2007
last-changed: 13-Jun-2012
registration-expiration: 13-Jun-2013
nserver: ns51.1and1.com 217.160.80.164
nserver: ns52.1and1.com 217.160.81.164
status: CLIENT-TRANSFER-PROHIBITED
registrant-firstname: R. Neil
registrant-lastname: Horman
registrant-organization: A Certain Panache, Inc.
registrant-street1: 1224 NE 183rd Steet
registrant-pcode: 98155
registrant-state: WA
registrant-city: Seattle
registrant-ccode: US
registrant-phone: +1.2063620189
registrant-email: nilesword@comcast.net
admin-c-firstname: R. Neil
admin-c-lastname: Horman
admin-c-organization: A Certain Panache, Inc.
admin-c-street1: 1224 NE 183rd Steet
admin-c-pcode: 98155
admin-c-state: WA
admin-c-city: Seattle
admin-c-ccode: US
admin-c-phone: +1.2063620189
admin-c-email: nilesword@comcast.net
tech-c-firstname: Hostmaster
tech-c-lastname: ONEANDONE
tech-c-organization: 1&1 Internet Inc.
tech-c-street1: 701 Lee Rd.
tech-c-street2: Suite 300
tech-c-pcode: 19087
tech-c-state: PA
tech-c-city: Chesterbrook
tech-c-ccode: US
tech-c-phone: +1.8774612631
tech-c-fax: +1.6105601501
tech-c-email: hostmaster@1and1.com
bill-c-firstname: Hostmaster
bill-c-lastname: ONEANDONE
bill-c-organization: 1&1 Internet Inc.
bill-c-street1: 701 Lee Rd.
bill-c-street2: Suite 300
bill-c-pcode: 19087
bill-c-state: PA
bill-c-city: Chesterbrook
bill-c-ccode: US
bill-c-phone: +1.8774612631
bill-c-fax: +1.6105601501
bill-c-email: hostmaster@1and1.com
This stuff is all geek to me, does this mean R.Neil is associated with *1and1*, or does it mean he was just using *1and1* as his webhost for *A Certain Panache*?
So, R.Neil’s company “A Certain Panache” is or was his web design company, can be seen on this company’s design:
http://dawhois.com/site/projectcontrolconsultants.com.html
************
Rose, I know you meant r.neil’s computer records, but what I meant is one computer’s contacts would lead to looking at another and so on and so forth, so I’d *hope* that LE would have looked at ALL of Kristian’s contacts, as well as Kaine’s, Terri’s, Desi’s & Tony’s, which would include R.Neil. Any immediate family would be a given as far as I’m concerned, but, who knows what they have or haven’t gotten’ ’round to.
Bink says:
(respectfully snipped)
“Houze. He requested the data, which outside of the exemptions under the law are public record. He had to be informed that they no longer existed.”
Blink,
I must have missed any prior discussion or reference to this request by Houze and the subsequent informing to Houze as I have not heard or read this before.
Are there written documentations like filings, etc., where TMH’s legal have noted the above events?
Have these events been orated in a court proceeding?
Thank you.
O so right away a devoted blinker since the inception wants me to back up my comments?
Lol.
I could not be prouder wpg, atta girl. From memory only, Houze filed several FOIA/pubic requests for that intel as well as 911 calls. To my knowledge he has never published those requests either as to his request or the response/reply he received.
They were annotated on the docket and referenced in pleadings that have not been publicly released. The gist was that LE is not going to provide explanation as to the exception outside of the fact that they are records that are exempt in their current status under OR law.
*DISCLOSURE* I am in the middle of a OS conversion to W8 and subsequent DB conversions ( remember the weekend, lol) so I am not allowed to access any of my archive doc files until it is complete, so it may be a few days, but I will reference it more specifically (if nobody on here beats me to it) when I can.
What is important is that the “custodian” of requested public records cannot just say- “sorry charlie”, they are part of an ongoing investigation and revealing same would reveal a suspect pre-apprehension, etc, etc-
They must narrow the scope and reply with a catalogued response as to what docs and or media they have pursuant to the request and how it cannot be released. That burden is really on the agency, or at least supposed to be. It would never have the need for oral arguments unless it progressed to the point where the mediator (differs by state and can be committee) agrees to a hearing. I doubt highly it got that far- it is enough to get it on record for this purpose that they were requested and denied although the plaintiff states that he has been privy to LE case information about the respondent.
B
aghast and oops at “Bink”.
Apologies, Blink, my “L” finger is a tad under the weather
ps
Apologies was Apoogies before I caught it
I had looked at Model Mayhem long ago, but it wasn’t an RNeil or Masonic connection that led me there. Seems to me it was because of some other photographer who had been arrested for child porn, but alas, I can’t remember now, darn it!
Just *Google Image Search* New Fiddler’s Green Photography and you will be met with adult porn images and videos. (or don’t, LOL)
I sure hope LE checked all this out.
1&1 was the company which hosted his domain registrations.
(I gathered that from the uniformly negative reviews by their subscribers.)
The reviews made it sound like the worst co. on earth.
@vw re “I guess, what I am saying, is that Kaine and Desiree did not know enough to sue. That the time went by and they did not have a clue that the school was negllible because they had no idea, being absent parents, that there were even procedures in place that were ignored.”
They both would’ve heard all about failure to follow procedure & policy from Terri beginning at 4 pm 6/4.
Kaine demonstrated he could hire a first rate lawyer on a dime when he was motivated to do so.
It is impossible to reach his age without knowing negligence suits are contingency fee (like Desiree’s), who
showed she could sue for a tort when motivated within the statute of limitations constraint.
You bring up something interesting, though, by saying Kaine pinched pennies. That’s not a suit deterrant because it’s contingency fee. You’d think he’d be motivated to file for the multimillion payout, or a handsome payout from pps’ insurer when settled, because the case has merit, even if a jury found Terri contributed & reduced the judgment by that %age. The recovery would cover that divorce attorney tab. So, imo, if he values frugality & wants to pay the divorce tab, it is stunning he didn’t sue the negligant institution. The public benefit would be holding staff accountable & ensuring better consistant procedures. The only reason I can think of for Kaine to walk away from a handsome judgment is a desperate need for Terri alone to be found culpable. And the need that would offset big money most likely would stem from a determination to have sole custody/no visits with Kiara. This is only opinion resulting from reasoning.
Did any news develop on the scalp/hair that the teenage fisherman snagged on his hook at Sauvie Island last year?
first time posting here; sporadic reader. I live in Portland and have followed this case from the beginning. You all bring up some excellent points every time I read. Out of curiosity I attended the divorce hearing (kaine’s request for stay) on Feb 4 and took notes. I’m posting them here so you can see what was discussed. I had not read the filings that went with them before the hearing but got ahold of them later and will post the ones where Terri’s attorney Peter Bunch protests the involvement of the DA in this divorce hearing.
~~~~
Before hearing started, attorneys had a private conversation with Judge Kantor then returned to courtroom.
Attorneys identified themselves:
Kaine Horman’s attorneys Brent Engel and Laura Rackner
Terri Horman’s attorney Peter Bunch
representative from Multnomah County District Attorney’s office: Chief Deputy DA Donald Rees
other people in the courtroom were two photographers (one video and one still) unidentified woman with Donald Reesspectators: Maxine Bernstein from the Oregonian and myself
First matter under consideration was the fact that state has involved itself in this case. The word “state” was mentioned many times during the hearing and I thought it referred to State of Oregon but Donald Rees is in Multnomah County DA’s office so maybe “state” refers to gov entity as opposed to private citizen.
Bunch started by saying that Terri Horman has not been allowed to see her daughter for 2 years and 7 months, that this case has gone on for a long time; spoke at length to the issue that the state has no standing to participate in this case, that to comply with rule of law, it cannot involve itself in civil cases. Unless it chooses to intervene (this word was used several times by both attorneys) formally in the case it has no authority to be heard orally or in writing.
Bunch cited several cases, Engel responded, Rees spoke his piece. I could not quite follow all this legalese while each tried to convince the judge they were right.
Kantor said that if state doesn’t tell him things he has no way of knowing them.
Bunch said that the state is acting outside the law. Only legislature can authorize it to be heard. Keating case was cited. (?)
Engel said the state has interest in maintaining the “integrity of the investigation”.
Rees said the state’s interest in this case was small (or narrow)
Kantor said they could participate butt not become a party to the case.
This suggests to me that this means there are limits to what they can do but it was not clear to me what those limits are. They have definite preferences about how this case should be handled and that sounds like being a “party” to me.
Kantor then asked for input on whether or not this material should be sealed.
Bunch did not want it sealed, believes this info should be avaiable to public.
Rees wanted it sealed.
Kantor denied the sealing, said that there is no significant new information here that the public does not already know.
Engel wants the divorce stayed or at least a partial stay because if it proceeds two avenues of discovery will be developed, used the metaphor of two trucks driving down two different highways. He is concerned that the “resources of the court not be wasted.” used this phrase several times
at this point a woman entered the room and went to where Rees was seated and whispered something to him
They then moved to the matter of the divorce.
Engel complained that Terri is destitute but appears to have money (must be referring to her having three attorneys)
Kantor asked Engel who he would like to depose in this situation.
Engel said he would depose members of the sherriff’s department to learn what information they have; also people peripherally involved (Terri’s friends?); wants several years of Terri’s bank statements; relative to contact with Kiara, wants psychological and parenting evaluations and that they should be given results.
Bunch said again that it has been 2 years and 7 months since Terri has seen her daughter. Terri originally asked for a stay because she wanted to let the investigation conclude and clear her from the cloud of suspicion but that didn’t happen. It has gone on and on. He understands why they cannot be given access to investigative material but she is entitled to the same relief as any other woman in divorce such as spousal support and access to her daughter. She is going to file ? I believe this relates to visiation but didn’t understand the terms used.
Kantor said that this is what Terri wants but what will she provide. He did not ask the same question of Kaine.
Bunch said Terri will not submit to psych or parenting evaluation. She wants spousal support and is pursuing custody. He has tried repeatedly to arrange visitation with Kaine, offering various options including professional supervision but Kaine always refused. This has become too prolonged with stay after stay. He said that he can’t see that anything in the sealed documents to indicate new progress in discovery that will solve case. He wants case to move forwards with limits on discovery. that is Terri can testify as to financial matters but not other areas. She will take the 5th on questions to other areas.
Kantor said she should not be put into situation where she would have to invoke 5th. Those questions should not be asked.
Bunch wants to depose Kaine regarding spousal support including his financial situation, bank statements and appraisal of the house. He also wants to ask Kaine about his accusations of Terri. Bunch said that the state has provided confidential information to Kaine, breaking its own rules of confidentiality. but Terri’s team has had no access to the same information.
Bunch said he will do a partial waiver for Terri to testify on financial matters, not other stuff.
Kantor wants Bunch to write statement as to what he will allow Terri to testify to, meaning financial issues.
Bunch said he would consult Houze as to some details and get that to Kantor right away.
Engel wants information from the state’s witnesses in order to figure out what is best for Kiara. “It’s not fair” that Kaine can’t ask Terri about Kyron’s disappearance. If he can’t ask this, Kaine believes Terri should not see Kiara. Kaine believes Terri is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance and this is the over-riding reason why Terri should not see Kiara. Engel wants Bunch to file some motion during this brief period between stays and this motion remains pending etc No clue what they were talking about here.
No mention of the Murder For Hire accusation Kaine made to get the original Restraining Order to prevent Terri from seeing Kiara. No evidence ever presented, merely stated that law enforcement told Kaine. Now that accusation eems to have disappeared from the case.
Kantor stated that neither of them can get discovery from state. Not permitted.
No comment on confidential info already provided to Kaine.
Rees stepped forward and stated that Kaine should not be deposed because he has information that should not be revealed to Terri. He said that the stay being requested is limited, not indefinite into the future, that they are working on something specific.
Kantor said he would rule on this within 14 days.
The hearing concluded and everybody stepped into hallway where the TV crew did a lengthy interview with Kaine followed by the Oregonian reporter and man with small video camera who did another lengthy interview. It was during the oregonian video interview that Kaine said that after this length of time he questions the advisability of Kiara ever seeing Terri again.
My understanding of what happened this morning is that the state can continue to participate in this case as it has been, not as a formal party nor through intervention, but by expressing opinions to the judge. The judge made no mention of the confidential information provided to Kaine (against its own rules) even when Rees requested that Kaine not be deposed because he has confidential information
As for the divorce stay, it is my impression that the judge might let the divorce proceed as long as Terri is willing to testify on financial matters so that an equitable settlement can be concocted. Custody is another problem. Kaine’s condition for Terri being allowed to see Kiara is, as he made clear back when he filed for divorce, is that Terri reveal where Kyron is. If she does not know, she cannot possibly fulfill this condition. The court has so far supported this though with the justification of a purported Murder for Hire accusation about which Kaine states that Multnomah County Sherrif’s office informed him though this charge was never pursued and now is no longer mentioned.
It appears to me that DA’s office is working through Kaine using his divorce to get information for the criminal case since both Kaine and Rees want the documents sealed, want the stay; working through Desiree’s civil case to do the same since James, Terri’s son was deposed as well as friend Dede Spicher but when it was time to depose Desiree and Kaine, Desiree and maybe silently DA’s office, asked for a stay and got it “to preserve the investigation.”
I don’t know the law and maybe have watched too much Perry Mason but it seems strange that throughout this case sheriff’s office and DA’s office have, according to Kaine and Desiree, provided them with confidential information to whichTerri’s attorneys have no access. I don’t understand why this Restraining Order to prevent a mother from seeing her young daughter has been extended for two years seven months without any evidence being presented. I certainly hope that at least the divorce proceeds.
Hi grasshopper, and welcome. We have been discussing our consensus that the DA has no standing to be heard in the divorce case whatsoever for some time, so I appreciate the boots on the ground so to speak.
I completely agree with Bunch’s position in his objection filing and I agree that the divorce action should proceed. As you can see Bunch has made numerous attempts to gain Kaine’s agreement for TMH to see her daughter including only supervised visits until “she was cleared”.
The DA had the audacity to file in a case they are not a party after providing one side information to support a TRO, ex parte. Did we know this? Yes.
Did Judge Kantnor REQUIRE Bunch et al to file an appearance in the civil tort case following the motion for abatement? Did he require that in his recent order? Eh, no. My takeaway on that is that the actual civil parties agreed via stipulation which is sealed without it and there is only one scenario Bunch/Houze/Wagner agree to that- and that is the one that benefits their client.
Certainly does put Engel’s comment about alimony into perspective.
Gonna be honest- I have no clue how these barristers are pulling this kind of crap off, but let’s see how it goes when allegations of abuse or mfh, possible child “secreting” rise during family court motions in efforts to stay support and division of assets. How is denying 100% access, including supervised visits in the best interests of a then 2 year old whose primary caregiver was her Mother? Josh freaking Powell was a named suspect in the disappearance of his wife with a huge freaking blood stain on the floor which matched her DNA, he took the kids in 25 below camping trip and kept them out of daycare without notification.
You might be thinking, blink, not the best argument. I disagree, as at the very least, the state was REQUIRED to show cause at least to the judge and a GAL was appointed.
B
If you are a citizen of of Multnomah County and this does not scare the chit out of you as an egregious civil liberty violation,
Here are filings of Peter Bunch’s objections. a little difficult to read because these are images of the filed pages.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1
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4 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGON
5 FOR THE COUNTY OF MULTNOMAH
6 In the Matter of the Marriage of:
7 KAINE ANDREW HORMAN,
8 Petitioner,
9 and
Case No. 100666084
RESPONDENT’S OBJECTIONS TO
SUBMISSION OF NON-PARTY
PLEADINGS
10 TERRI LYNN MOUL TON HORMAN,
11 Respondent.
12
13 Respondent Terri Horman (Wife) submits the following objections for the court’s
14 consideration.
15 The office of the Multnomah County District Attorney (DA) proposes to file
16 documents with the court, which the court indicated must be served on the parties in the
17 above-captioned proceeding. The DA is not a party to this proceeding. With limited
18 exceptions, the Oregon Rules of Civil Procedure do not authorize an entity or person
19 who is not a party to serve or file memoranda and other documents in a civil lawsuit. In
20 fact, the Oregon Rules of Civil Procedure make it evident that, except for a motion to
21 intervene or motions related to discovery impacting a non-party, only a party to a case
22 has standing to serve and file documents with the court. See, e.g., ORCP 4 A, K,
23 ORCP 19, ORCP 21-3, ORCP 26, ORCP 28-9, ORCP 31, ORCP 33; see also Local
24 No. 290 v. Dept. of Environ. Quality, 323 Or 559, 566 (1996) (standing is not a matter of
25 common law but is, instead, conferred by the legislature).
26 /Iii
Page 1 – RESPONDENT’S OBJECTIONS TO SUBMISSION OF NON-PARTY PLEADINGS
K:IPBIHORMAN, TERRllOBJECTIONS TO FILING.DOC
THE LAW FIRM OF PETER BUNCH, LLC
511 SE 11th Avenue, Suite 201
Portland, Oregon 97214
Telephone: 503.688.5123 Facsimile: 503.961.1559
email: peter@peterbunchlaw.com
www peterbunchlaw.Com
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Counsel for Wife is aware of no statute or rule that authorizes the DA, or any
other non-party to this action, to file any documents in the above-captioned proceeding
other than a motion that is authorized by rule. Accordingly, Wife respectfully asks the
court to enter an order instructing the Clerk of the Court to reject any pleadings filed by
the DA or any other person or entity who is not a party to this proceeding, except for a
motion authorized by the Oregon Rules of Civil Procedure.
DATED on January 31, 2013.
THE LAW FIRM OF PETER BUNCH, LLC £?C?LL Peffir Bunch, OSB No. 942210 -
Attorney for Respondent
Tri~I Attorney: Peter Bunch
Page 2 – RESPONDENT’S OBJECTIONS TO SUBMISSION OF NON-PARTY PLEADINGS
K:IPBIHORMAN. TERRllOBJECTIONS TO FIUNG.OOC
THE LAW FIRM OF PETER BUNCH, LLC
511 SE 111h Avenue, Suite 201
Portland, Oregon 97214
Telephone: 503.688.5123 Facsimile: 503.961.1559
email: peter@oeterbunchlaw.com
http://www.peterbunchlaw.com
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CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I certify that I served a copy of the foregoing RESPONDENT’S OBJECTIONS TO
~31
SUBMISSION OF NON-PARTY PLEADINGS on the following attorney on January-3-fr,
2013, by hand delivery to following at the address set forth below.
Brett Engel
Gearing Rackner Engel LLP
121 SW Morrison Street Suite 750
Portland, OR 97204-3117
Page 3 – RESPONDENT’S OBJECTIONS TO SUBMISSION OF NON-PARTY PLEADINGS
K:\PBIHORMAN, TERRllOBJECTIONS TO FILING.DOC
THE LAW FIRM OF PETER BUNCH, LLC
511 SE 11 lh Avenue, Suite 201
Portland, Oregon 97214
Telephone: 503.688.5123 Facsimile: 503.961 .1559
email: peler@oelerbunchlaw.com
http://www.pelerbunchlaw.com
1
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4 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGON
5 FOR THE COUNTY OF MULTNOMAH
6 In the Matter of the Marriage of:
7 KAINE ANDREW HORMAN,
8 Petitioner,
9 and
Case No. 100666084
RESPONDENT’S OBJECTIONS TO
DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S PLEADINGS
10 TERRI LYNN MOUL TON HORMAN,
11 Respondent.
12
13 Respondent Terri Horman (Wife) submits the following objections for the court’s
14 consideration.
15 The office of the Multnomah County District Attorney (DA) may have submitted a
16 · memorandum of law, supporting affidavit, and other documents, including a proposed
17 order, directly to the court in support of the Motion to Stay filed by Petitioner Kaine
18 Horman (Husband). At of the time of the filing of these objections, the DA provided
19 copies of a proposed motion to seal and order, but not the substantive documents it
20 seeks to seal from public scrutiny, to counsel for Wife.
21 The State of Oregon, through the DA, is not a party in the above-captioned
22 dissolution of marriage proceeding. The DA has not filed a Motion to Intervene.
23 Counsel for Wife is not aware of any statute or law that authorizes the DA to submit or
24 file any documents in this proceeding absent an order by this court allowing the DA to
25 intervene. Accordingly, Wife objects to the court’s reviewing or taking into consideration
26 /Ill
Page 1 – RESPONDENT’S OBJECTIONS TO DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S PLEADINGS
K:IPB\HORMAN, TERRllOBJECTIONS.DOC
• THE LAW FIRM OF PETER BUNCH. LLC
511 SE 1 Hh Avenue, Suite 201
Portland, Oregon 97214
Telephone: 503.688.5123 Facsimile: 503.961 .1559
email: peter@peterbunchlaw.com
http://www.peterbunchlaw.com
1 any documents submitted to the court by the DA, and to the filing of such documents,
2 other than a Motion to Intervene, pursuant to ORCP 33 C.
3 DATED on January 30, 2013.
4 THE LAW FIRM OF PETER BUNCH, LLC
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P er Bunch, OSB No. 94
Attorney for Respondent
Trial Attorney: Peter Bunch
Page 2- RESPONDENT’S OBJECTIONS TO DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S PLEADINGS
K:IPBIHORMAN, TERRllOBJECTIONS.DOC
THE LAW FIRM OF PETER BUNCH, LLC
511 SE 11th Avenue. Suite 201
Portland. Oregon 97214
Telephone: 503.688.51 23 Facsimile: 503.961 .1559
email: peler@peterbunchlaw.com
http://www.peterbunchlaw.com
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CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I certify that I served a copy of the foregoing RESPONDENTS OBJECTIONS TO
DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S PLEADINGS on the following attorney on January 30, 2013,
by hand delivery to following at the address set forth below, and deposited in the U.S.
Post Office in Portland, Oregon, with postage prepaid.
Brett Engel
Gearing Rackiler Engel LLP
121 SW Morrison Street Suite 750
Portland,OR97204-3117 /Zr:JL /.z
Peter Bunch, OSB No. 942210
Page 3 – RESPONDENT’S OBJECTIONS TO DISTRICT ATIORNEY’S PLEADINGS
K:IPB\HORMAN, TERRnOBJECTIONS.DOC
THE LAW FIRM OF PETER BUNCH, LLC
511 SE 11th Avenue, Suile 201
Portland, Oregon 97214
I suppose there is another incentive for bios not to sue, despite likely settlement payout.
If pps took it to Trial, Kyron and Kaine and the homelife would be tried. Imo the pps litigator
would paint Kyron as inattentive, behaviorally uncooperative & academically
pushed beyond his chrono age; Kaine as xy or z as an unsupportive classroom parent;
and it took Terri til end of school year to get a ped eval & behavioral rating scale.
Moreover pps could use Kaine’s RO to defend and his statements she was a kid-neglecting drunk.
His private foibles would be examined.
The bios were unlikely to want Kyron attacked along the lines of behavior and attention, but to
protect his memory, in addition to protecting their privacy.
Blink, wpg et all,
Here is a LINK to the actual request for calls. Houze, it shows, authorized the BOEC to spend any amount of money needed to retrieve the actual 911 calls, dispatches, etc.
Here is also the agency’s response to Houze.
His assistant filled out the forms, it appears.
Stunningly, the Sheriff’s office refused access to ALL of the calls.
The calls request never made it to the media. But the “sexting” did, about the same time. LE apparently didn’t thing the “sexting” texts that they made available to Kaine would impact the “investigation”.
On another note, if you look at Bunch’s appearance at the FAPA and read the FAPA Extension Hearing itself
you will note that the arguement (pp 9-10) between Judge M and Bunch specifically points to what a waste of money it would be to “contest” the FAPA.
This FAPA is a sad case of guilty-until-proven-innocent. And with all the discovery to prove innocent in the hands of not the other parent, but of an agency that ironically wants the other parent behind bars by any means ….. a young child’s welfare is not tipping the scales.
Blink….oops.
Here’s the link..to the court documents:
http://vwoolfexploresthenorthwest.blogspot.com/2012/11/blog-post.html
Hi folks..just a quick question..it has been 2 years and 7 months..she was a then two year old.
Does this mean she will start school in September 2013? If so, what school would it be…how is it working right now..who does the daycare…?
I am just puzzled beyond belief by everything about this case..so I’m just asking the simplest question.
No, she must be 5 years old by the first day of school to attend K.
Kaine states he works mostly from home and she is in his care, but it is my understanding that she attends preschool.
B
TY grasshopper for your public service and transparency.
Kudos to attending out of curiosity. Curiosity by someone (not MCSO nor DA’s office, as they lack it will solve Kyron’s case. Won’t be Bernstein either. She could have written an article from your notes. Instead she’s a PR agent.
I copied and commented on 4-5 excerpts of your notes, but thankfully for Blink bloggers my cell died and it was lost.
Instead to comment on the big picture, not the individual (gasp) statements, Kantor and DDA are acting ultra vires, constitutionally speaking. Why and How do they get away with it?
l) the 9th Circ is shall we say different and idiosyncratic;
2) Judges reflect the training of law schools in the region which are comparatively very weak vis a vis rest of country
(I have been reminded of this studying Arias’ highly professional Judge (U.Az has been fine since at least mid-90s)vs the OR product.) Oregon’s judicial products are a reflection of Oregon’s schools of law and local Bar.
3) DA’s office seems to have had a long history of stocking the bench with its graduates. Seems pretty one-sided. I think Shrunk will go down as the Joe Paterno of DA-land. Moral, and winning his way for right and might, but creating thereby a weak jud9icial system which ill serves the public.
4) history of County corruption permeating govt social systems.
What to do? These ultra vires actions must be stopped at the appellate level, and god knows if State Court, corrupt as it is reputed to be, is capable of it. Who’s gonna appeal? (not of a judgement, but a restraining order or some sort of stop to the ultra vires acts (DDA participation without intervening; Kantor hearing State but not as a witness subject to depo and cross; plaintiff attempt to bar his own depo on “criminal” grounds where no charge is filed.”
IMO Bunch is not capable professionally to appeal. The Desiree defense atty likely is, but that’s not this case. Houze isn’t well situated to do so either. And Bunch/Houze, won’t want to burn their local Bar standing and don’t probably have the time. Nor Terri the $
But these are important local Constitutional corruption matters.
they need a pro bono attorney just to litigate these Constitutional matters. And, it needs to be done right away.
A Constitutional law expert. Somebody go persuade Spence’s firm to toss in a pro bono appellate lawyer who is up on civil and criminal law. Or go find some legal clinic with a first rate Con law scholar supervising there: Berkeley? Pepperdine? Chicago? St. Louis U/MO?
Blink says:
“O so right away a devoted blinker since the inception wants me to back up my comments?
Lol.”
LMBO!
Sigh and a sniffle, there was a time you used to send me bling . . .
You’re right
reconstucted somewhat. some of these statements just overwhelm me as to the lack of professional competence & attitude on several sides.
“Kantor said that if state doesn’t tell him things he has no way of knowing them.” (Gasp )
Let a party call a repr of the State as a witness, subject to deposition and cross. We still have a Constitution. (Which to these folks is apparently drafted on multiple cocktail napkins somebody keeps dropping. Wow)
Engel wants “wants psychological and parenting evaluations”
A parenting eval at this point would be counter informative. She hasn’t seen Mother who disappeared abruptly without explanation ( and has likely been replaced by another mothering figure) in 2.5 years. She should initially and for some time have an adjustment reaction on re-meeting, ie much anger as well as fear . It will be very hard to reintegrate Mother into her life with Father’s determined opposition. What assessment is reasonable now is supervised visitation of increasing length and frequency. A Parenting eval is only informative after Terri has resumed a parenting role in Kiara’s eyes. Agreed Entirely
I’m now more interested in the psychological on Kaine to be honest, based on his inability to cooperate with the other parent, even minimally, and lack of cognizance of his attitude on his daughter. At this point, wouldn’t an observation/assessment of Kiara’s needs as they relate to her Mother and what the effect NOT being with her has had on her for two years be in order? Don’t we want to know what she has been told in the event alienation is some sort of factor here? Because as you know, that coupled with your points are considerations in joint custody awards.
“Kantor said that this is what Terri wants but what will she provide. He did not ask the same question of Kaine.”
He needs to recuse. The psychological “fusing” of 2 judges, detective O’D, and others such as Cruz with Kaine, to the extent of acting judicially unprofessionally imo and failure to investigate other abduction avenues, or identifying him with their own personal issues, is one check mark that has led me to wonder how many Borderlines were in Kyron’s social system shall we say.
“Engel….. “It’s not fair” that Kaine can’t ask Terri about Kyron’s disappearance. If he can’t ask this, Kaine believes Terri should not see Kiara. Kaine believes Terri is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance and this is the over-riding reason why Terri should not see Kiara.”
Let Kaine litigate his belief state. It’s not up to Kaine to determine if Kiara can see Mother. He’s in a divorce with two parents. She was not an incubator. He was given information from LE to support this conclusion directly. TMH requested her own dang 911 calls and could not get them- waa?
“No mention of the Murder For Hire accusation Kaine made to get the original Restraining Order to prevent Terri from seeing Kiara. No evidence ever presented, merely stated that law enforcement told Kaine. Now that accusation seems to have disappeared from the case.”
Unsurprising. Hope Bunch litigates Kaine’s refusal to let Kiara see Mother.
That’s normally held against a parent deemed to be uncooperative with the other parent, custody wise.
“Rees stepped forward and stated that Kaine should not be deposed because he has information that should not be revealed to Terri.”
Gasp. Where is his standing to intervene? To testify without cross and depo? Exactly, wth? You mean the fact that he was monitoring and had access to the cell account she was using, or that he put Cook up to the Nutter Butter chronicles? I have information that Kaine does not have- which may or may not be wholly unrelated to this matter- gotta run, need to file and be heard.
“Kaine said that after this length of time he questions the advisability of KiMy argument would have been this: Ok, under that auspice, aren’t you guilty of exactly what you accuse the respondent of? That is, keeping your child away from you willfully? Are you suggesting that because you have not seen your son since June 2010 that it is ill advised based on that fact for you to ever see him again?ara ever seeing Terri again.”
My argument would have been this:
Under that auspice, aren’t you then guilty in exactly what you claim the respondent is responsible for? Meaning, if it is your intention to keep Kiara away from her Mother based on the time elapsed, are you suggesting that if Kyron were to be located that because he has been out of your care for the same equivalent amount of time, that it would be ill advised for him to see you?
I have no idea of Kaine’s psychological construct, and have neither met, interviewed nor assessed him, but generally speaking this type of statement would imo be typical of a Borderline.
Me in bold Rose, spot on post, nice job.
B
Is Lea in a position to comment on the informal transcript above.
I got my research assignment from Attorney Conner earlier this evening, lol.
Technically speaking we have been discussing this for months, it is just now apparently coming true. Do they know that standing does not refer to physical posture within the court room they choose or have an interest?
About to post your feedback on grasshopper’s notes, spot on.
B
@grasshopper says:
February 28, 2013 at 3:50 pm
Thank you and welcome. So nice to have another local (and active) caring person aboard. Have you ever thought of becoming a reporter? My goodness, you’ve offered up more information than any of the media have in regards to the last courtroom session. Thanks for your notes and insight.
JMO, but no way in h.e.l.l. did Kaine or Desiree or Tony NOT know that they could possibly sue the school. I still wonder, to this day, if they (Kaine and or Desiree) met outside of court with the school and some settlement may have been reached. Ya’ll keep in mind who the first one to contact legal (that we know of anyway) was Kaine.
Not possible T.Ruth, but I do agree that of course they know they can sue the school.
B
Rose says:
February 28, 2013 at 9:35 pm
(snipped)
they need a pro bono attorney just to litigate these Constitutional matters. And, it needs to be done right away.
A Constitutional law expert. Somebody go persuade Spence’s firm to toss in a pro bono appellate lawyer who is up on civil and criminal law. Or go find some legal clinic with a first rate Con law scholar supervising there: Berkeley? Pepperdine? Chicago? St. Louis U/MO?
*************
You know, Rose, I would not be surprised, because of the intertwining and depth of this case, if someone like that wouldn’t actually relish this case?
But, oh my, that could go on for….ever…, meantime where is Kyron? So sad.
To Kyon: The frogs are beginning their mating calls. Our pond is alive with them, an almost deafening serenade of shrill, yet comforting voices. They are my harbingers, they are a sign of a longed for Spring approaching, of rebirth, of brushing off the cobwebs of winter, of daffodils blooming and crocus’ flowering, and now, forever, they will remind me of you.
And that’s a fact. Goodnight.
Hah, can’t believe I left the r out of Kyron. So sorry.
T. Ruth says:
February 28, 2013 at 12:03 pm
@vw
My question about that koin story is whether or not Kyron Horman assembled with the groups in the first place. If he did, there is no way he was last seen at 8:45, period. Now, that doesn’t mean Terri did actually leave at 8:45, but it would mean she was not the last person to see him, at least not at 8:45. Remember Terri said she last saw Kyron @ 8:45, but she says she actually left the school around 9:00.
I just want to know what time, for certain, Kyron was last seen and LE has been all over the place on this. Later in the morning, 9:00, 8:45. Which is it? That’s what still is an unknown. So, if that article is correct and he was put into a group, it obviously was sometime after 8:45.
*****
Truth,
Well, they are doing all they can (LE, the school, Kaine) to negate those facts, aren’t they? That Kyron was seen after Terri left (Tanner). That Kyron was seen about 9am (Tyler?). That kids were supposed to get in their groups but the PTA pres. (with a child in the room) did not know which one Kyron was in) Carol Moulton and Gina zimmerman.
You’re right that LE was all over the place. And the first 2-4 weeks into the investigation Gates was still saying 9am. The earliest reports stated Kyron was last seen mid-morning.
I saw, for a fact, the last LE official update (on their webpage) which stated that Kyron was last seen in front of his room. Now, to me that backtracks. There was no time stated nor was there a person stated who was with him.
It was written after the Task Force disbanded, in early summer, 2011. I haven’t been able to find it again but I haven’t looked at the MCSO webpage for awhile.
But the point is, to me, that Kyron was last seen at 8:45 for an investigative reason. TMH’s email said she left at 8:45 or even closer to 9am. Her “alibi” was a 9:12 receipt from Freds.
IF…LE is to insist on the 8:45 with TMH than that means that they believe TMH’s word? Who else stated unequivocally that they saw TMH with Kyron at exactly that time? Personally, I think they moved back the actual sitings of Kyron because they had a “suspect” and she could not have been at FM at 9:12 unless she left the school way before 9am.
To me, it’s like the issue of the 10 am marking of Kyron as absent. Really? 10am exactly?
That’s why that last (final) Press release after the Task Force Disbanding did not have a time. Or that Kyron was seen with his mother. They knew that in the end they would be held to their “official” reporting rather than heresay. So they left out the time and who Kyron was seen by by using the passive voice.
And if we are to believe TMH who says, as many others do, that she left Kyron walking TOWARD his room than the statement that Kyron was seen IN FRONT of his room suggests TMH was already gone.
As far as Kyron being put in a group goes. I think he was. For the reasons you cited and because it goes with all that other “eye” witnesses stated early on….before LE had a “suspect”. It goes with Tanner’s story, with the “sighting” of Kyron with a male “chaperone”, with Gina suggesting he was put into a group, with Kyron being sighted last “outside” the doorway of his room. I can just imagine other kids in that group that were interviewed telling LE that …”.he was her with us, but he left the group.”
The real key is that chaperone. It might have been a last-minute pull-in from another class or a middle-school volunteer. But that person holds the key. Were they believed? Why no word, ever, on whether that group had Kyron walking with them? One way or the other?
BTW. I didn’t mean to imply that Desiree and Kaine never thought of suing the school. More that if they did, they wouldn’t have had the savvy to know the ways in which the school was negligent. To the degree that TMH would, anyway.
And, it’s true. Kaine, especially, would be having to give up information that he might need to hold onto for the divorce, etc.
Agreed on all points, vw.
Kyron was last seen with SZ, and there is not a principal in this case that is not aware of that fact.
With that in mind, I say again, rhetorically, wth are these parents doing falling inline with a flawed investigation into the disappearance of their BABY
B?
Congrats, Her Majesty!
wpg says:
February 28, 2013 at 9:39 pm
@grasshopper, Thank You for posting. Rose and Blink said it all. Especially want to agree with the Josh Powell analogy. If that doesn’t put it into perspective, nothing will.
@Blink. Kiara’s needs must start with a GAL imo, who has time for investigation.
Then she needs therapeutic support as Mother reintegrates. To me the testimony now should be a genuine expert
as to how a typical child this age would response to reintro of Mother after such a loss and with so
hostile a Dad. I personally would expect acting out & anger, and physical symptoms are possible (ie
bedwetting or other regressions). The eval needs to be a total one of both parents & Kiara and would imo take about a year. I posted one case here some time ago from Portland where a GAL & clinical psychologist did that. They were brilliant & appellate Court reversed the Portland Court’s award on appeal based on their word. I’d insist on that twosome.
I was looking up Lewis & Clark where these 2 Judges went to school last nite. Great for Enviro or Indian law now.
Some mention Pres said they’d admitted too many students for revenue than they could properly educate.
Don’t read me as bashing Kaine. I don’t know him. I want to see an RO or something on J Kantor & DDA because
bad law is being made in this case for all taxpayers & citizens of Oregon. J Kantor & the DDA flagrantly step on civil rights in an apparent corrupt and/or cronyism judicial culture in Oregon. The people of Oregon deserve better precedent.
Agreed. But not just that. Our LE, our protectors and servers have standards and boundaries that do not allow for much of the fringe participation here. Personally, if TH were in a position to be cleared, or clears herself in some manner, or hell, doesn’t- how have they not interfered in custodial parenting rights here?
Don’t get me wrong peeps. If there is substantive evidence that any person committed a crime they are under investigation for that could compromise the care of a child, I support any means necessary (legally) to consider the best interests of that child first. This TRO was granted and renewed because addressing it would require infringement on TMH parental and civil rights. How that should not REQUIRE a solid prima facie on the record still astounds me. Not being in a position to address an allegation made by one’s estranged spouse and co-parent is not enough,imo.
Again I say, how is this not triggering a CYS investigation in the first place?
B
Two tiny indicia of Terri’s lack of a significant PD btw are 1) not changing attorneys, 2) total silence. A Borderline would be in front of the cameras over time, and with conflicting statements. I googled divorcing a Borderline last night, both female and male. Anecdotal but informative. If she didn’t show a reactive depressed state on eval, she’s crazy lol. But if she didn’t act on depression in 2.5 years that should have no impact on custody. Plenty of parents are clinically depressed & don’t lose custody.
a book for Bunch by an experienced CA attorney
http://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=47078.0
Confession: When I first looked at that link I thought the name of the book was SPITTING. Deep belly laugh before taking a second look. Good Suggestion Rose.
Please let us know how girl #1 is doing
B
Rose says: (and Blink)
February 28, 2013 at 10:01 pm
“A parenting eval at this point would be counter informative. She hasn’t seen Mother who disappeared abruptly without explanation ( and has likely been replaced by another mothering figure) in 2.5 years. She should initially and for some time have an adjustment reaction on re-meeting, ie much anger as well as fear . It will be very hard to reintegrate Mother into her life with Father’s determined opposition. What assessment is reasonable now is supervised visitation of increasing length and frequency. A Parenting eval is only informative after Terri has resumed a parenting role in Kiara’s eyes.” “Agreed Entirely”
“I’m now more interested in the psychological on Kaine to be honest, based on his inability to cooperate with the other parent, even minimally, and lack of cognizance of his attitude on his daughter.” “At this point, wouldn’t an observation/assessment of Kiara’s needs as they relate to her Mother and what the effect NOT being with her has had on her for two years be in order? Don’t we want to know what she has been told in the event alienation is some sort of factor here? Because as you know, that coupled with your points are considerations in joint custody awards.”
—————————————-
Believe me, I get your points. However, having been through a parenting evaluation (through one-way mirror) with a foster (toddler) child possibly returning to a mother whose total parenting time had been 2 weeks at the beginning of his life, I can tell you the (their) argument for this. There was no preparation for the visits – no time I could be there and ease the transition. I could hear the child loudly crying as I waited in another room and my first thought was to wish I could go and comfort and help the child accept the mother.
Naturally, I questioned the case manager. Her response was that they weren’t worried about the child crying or calling my name or any other of the child’s responses. The observations were to see the mother’s reactions and how she dealt with the child’s needs. Did she get frustrated or angry? Did she become more soothing and try to distract the child? Was she more concerned about being watched and “doing it wrong” than she was about calming the child? Did she have patience from visit to visit and how did she react to hearing her child calling for someone else and not wanting to be hugged by her? Was she so concerned about being judged for making the child cry that she didn’t set limits for behavior (such as standing up in a rocking chair or tearing book pages)? In other words, did she understand good parenting practices?
Without going into that whole case (which eventually worked out well), I think some of it applies in this case. A good parenting evaluation would look at how Terri handles the visits, not at how Kiara does. In fact, the more different emotions and behaviors Kiara shows, the better to see Terri’s responses.
My guess is that neither Terri nor Kiara know each other at this (developmental stage) point in their lives and that anger wouldn’t be a major factor in an evaluation. If it was presented to Kiara as “Storytime with Terri” and not “Hi, I’m your mother, and I’m back,” the interactions might actually go quite well. We don’t know whether Kaine has kept family pictures around and whether Terri’s name has ever been mentioned – I think it’s doubtful.
If it’s true that Kiara’s behavior was “troubled” in some way (for want of a better description since we have no details) and then improved after she was not around Terri, it probably wasn’t the result of how Terri herself related to Kiara, but whatever was going on in the household – which we all know is not happening now in the same way it was then. Even if Kaine or his helpers found a way to upset Kiara about the visits, it wouldn’t make a difference to the parenting eval and it would show disregard for Kiara’s needs.
Eventually, Kiara will see her mother again, whether it’s after she is cleared, after she is arrested, after Kiara is a curious teen or adult. At some point, Kaine will have some ‘splaining to do about why he wanted her to grow up without her mother. “Somebody said she wanted to hurt me” or “she knows something she didn’t tell” or “you behaved better without her” probably isn’t going to cut it.
Can’t help wondering what happened when Desiree was in Canada. Did she get to talk to Kyron on the phone regularly, did pictures of her stay in Kyron’s room, was she able to send gifts, and was she spoken of in the Horman home as someone who was sad to be away for so long and would return soon – and Kyron’s love for her frequently acknowledged?
Tests and evaluations have their drawbacks, of course, but I’m not sure a parenting evaluation would be as harmful to Terri’s case as it might seem on the surface, especially if it were spread out over a series of visits.
From the FBI’s website, “Kyron Richard Horman has been missing from Skyline Elementary School in Portland, Oregon, since June 4, 2010. He was last seen that morning after attending a science fair at the school”.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap
They use the word AFTER not during, while, etc.
Makes one wonder, doesn’t it? I suppose the IRS would also like to know. Hope they aren’t too busy so that they have time to check it further.
@Rose says: February 28, 2013 at 12:01 am
GRESHAM, OR (KPTV) -
Portland police said they arrested two people on gun and drug charges in a Fred Meyer parking lot Wednesday.
In an ongoing investigation, 21-year-old Gustavo Vega was arrested for delivering marijuana, possession of heroin, and the unlawful use and possession of a firearm, among other things, according to police. Kathleen Olinger, 33, was taken into custody at the same time. She’s wanted for identity theft, according to police.
(snipped)
http://www.kptv.com/story/21431175/drug-and-gun-arrests-made-in-a-fred-meyer-parking-lot
**********
Informant in militia case admits running drugs for Hells Angels
(snipped)
Gerald “J.R.” Olson had started his testimony Monday by admitting his personal criminal history, citing the cocaine and marijuana that he allowed a “criminal organization” to pack among the boxes of Fred Meyer groceries he hauled to Alaska from Washington state.
Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2012/05/23/2477526/informant-in-militia-case-admits.html#storylink=cpy
What is it with Fred Meyer parking lots?
I still wonder if it was possible that Terri had been running drugs. (or, if at least that is what LE suspects her of?) I remember early on that someone personally posted on one of the forums (somewhere?) that she had earlier in the year (2010) witnessed Terri’s mustang driving recklessly through a parking lot. Does anyone remember if that was Fred Meyer store?
…or is it possible that Kaine knows things would “come out”(about himself) that he doesn’t want people to know about?
@Rose says: February 28, 2013 at 2:52 pm
The only reason I can think of for Kaine to walk away from a handsome judgment is a desperate need for Terri alone to be found culpable. And the need that would offset big money most likely would stem from a determination to have sole custody/no visits with Kiara. This is only opinion resulting from reasoning.
Knowing Kaine as she probably did, I sometimes wonder if Desiree had sided with Terri back at the beginning, if everything would be different now.
lol, erose.
No royalty here.
It’s a flashy new slip-cover for my hamster wheel.
Okay, back to business . . .
@wpg, okay then, lucky hamster.
Yet another Fred Meyer parking lot bust, this one in WA, June 2012, on a busy Saturday afternoon:
http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/jun/15/police-arrest-17-part-major-drug-bust-operation-sp/
(snipped)
One purchase included more than 100 Oxycontin pills. The largest deal involved 1.25 pounds of cocaine that was seized in a deal at the Hazel Dell Fred Meyer parking lot on a busy Saturday afternoon, Cooke said.
The 18 suspects who have been arrested are: Melissa Fielding, 20, of Vancouver; Sherry Jara, 48, of Vancouver; Sarah Harris, 25, of Vancouver; Mary Eibl, 50, of Vancouver; Derwin Robinson, 36, of Portland; Gerrie Sellers, 50, of Vancouver; Shawn Gehring, 35, of Vancouver; Keith McKibban, 51, of Vancouver; Brent Byers, 31, of Vancouver; Kelly Buss, 50, of Vancouver; Jamie Coolidge, 41, of Vancouver; Demetrius Rasberry, 37, of Vancouver; Lenny Bogard, 36, of Vancouver; Eric Fredericks, 35, of Vancouver; Tami Stein, 50, of Clackamas, Ore.; Alvaro Parra Campos, 42, of Portland; Matthew Deen, 22, of Clackamas, Ore.; and Alexandria Quinn, 25, of Vancouver.
(snipped)
The 13 suspects still being sought by investigators are: Becky Kassner, 28, of Vancouver; Joshua Galipeau, 38, of Vancouver; Charles Dickens, 43, of Vancouver; Robert Audette, 44, of Vancouver; Bryan Eastham, 40, of Vancouver; Scott Eastham, 40, of Vancouver; Nicolas Bates, 43, of Vancouver; Phillip Latimer, 31, of Vancouver; Lavonna Fast, 34, of Vancouver; Nick Nukala, 25, of Vancouver; Dylan Digiulio, 36, of Vancouver; Thomas Price, 34, of Vancouver; and Patrick Kelly, 57, of Vancouver.
********
If Terri was a mule, it would explain a lot of things. Is it possible she had run drugs previously for AS-S and associates? IDK, just curious all these FM busts. I like Freddy’s btw, maybe Safeway or Albertson’s are notorious for this kind of thing too.
Broad daylight, afternoons, crowded places. Weird, I don’t know anything about drug deals, but one would expect them to happen in back alleys, or here in Oregon in back woods.
A bit on the bright side:
Noticing the docket on 12/12/12
http://vwoolfexploresthenorthwest.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-divorce-docket.html
The divorce case was assigned to Kanter by this Judge:
http://courts.oregon.gov/Multnomah/General_Info/Judges/McKnight/pages/judge_mcknight_contact_information.aspx
That there is someone, finally, in a decision-making capacity that holds a judicial position and background of fighting for the dis-enfranchised has not history of being in the DA’s camp is encouraging. How much weight it has, for her or for the case might be nil. But I, for one, saw Messinger’s double-dipping year of retirement as a mere extension of the DA’s long arm into this case.
Rose says:
February 23, 2013 at 4:41 pm
anyone else wondering why the search for DAD–attempt
police murderer and dangerous to public at large–was
never as intense as that for Dorn & Storm?
Was just thinking about DAD today, Rose. Yep. I agree. Why just drop that search? They had SWAT teams, they had a story that was incredible. A target that managed to evade them time and again. No body, no sight of him. A heroic Newport policewoman that jumped out of bed, threw a tire-ripping strip in front of his speeding truck and stayed there till the swat cars came. But within minutes he was gone again.
Why no more seaching? They guy shot and critically injured a cop. And he could easily have been mistaken for TMH from a distance while living a neurotic “strange” life in the neighborhood. Who better, too, to “disappear” Kyron with his skills and obvious knowledge of the Forest Hills/Sauvie Island environs?
JMO, but I sometimes wonder about that bar the highway. Bottoms Up? Could he have met Kaine or TMH there? Hatched a plan. As a volunteer Firefighter could have had prior access to the school. Could the plan have gone wrong and hence the escape to the coast as his painkiller drug habit got worse. That was in January. Right about the time Staton had said he expected something to “shake loose”.
Maybe he was expected to “snatch and store” Kyron. Maybe a bee-sting or some odd play of events.
I truly wonder about Kaine’s involvment in such an event. Could DAD have gotten access to the Mustang?
In order to frame TMH?
As far as I know LE NEVER took Kaine’s computers and never confiscated his phones.
This just drives me CRAZY. LA went after Dorn with a vengence. Even killing people who “might” be him.
MCSO and coastal police just let this case drop.
I’m rambling but It’s that “rush” to convict TMH that has always baffled me. How could they (the bios) be saying that TMH was “completely” cooperating and working hard with investigators one day. The next day, no less, Kaine is packing his bags and daughter the minute he gets the OK from LE to create a “suspect” out of her. And within another two days he’s got a lawyer, a divorce and a FaPa filed, and sole custody of his daughter.
One just doesn’t lose ALL faith in a marriage and strike a blow so severe to the one he vehemently defended hours ago… within a day. How could LE alone be able to do that so conclusively? With no real evidence of a MFH.
Unless LE had spent weeks in the war room creating this “wag the dog”. But I don’t think they were that smart.
He is baaaack….
http://pdxmugshots.com/mug/anselmo-sanchezsanchez-1
RedRose and Rose,
Agree on all points. IN ADDITION:
PPS and very well paid lawyers, would not go lightly into the night with a suit. IMHO they would launch the counter-attack that no public school can protect a student that is taken from the premises by his mother.
IOW…both birth parents had already gotten LE sanction and were making very public stands regarding one of their “own” and her sole culpability in the removal of Kyron from the school.
Cameras? Just a techicality and a very fine goodwill gesture by the super. Automated calls home….just another technicality and taken care of.
Kaine and Desiree, not having stepped foot in the school more than a handful of times, if that, would have no savvy to fight what was really wrong with the school. Remember, Kaine didn’t even understand the behavioral system that Porter enacted in her classroom, didn’t refer to TMH working with (or not) Porter, on Kyron’s success in school. Neither one have ever gone on record as referring to her by name or knowing if she was a good teacher or a careless one. Neither one would have known, if it was there, Porter’s penchant for losing track of students.
IOW, they were not the primary parent of Kyron. And it was fine by them.
All ….. how do you say it…MOOO? What does that mean, btw.?? :>)
(I’ve aquired that it means IMO….but where does it come from?)
***************************************************************************************************
RedRose says:
March 1, 2013 at 1:26 pm
…or is it possible that Kaine knows things would “come out”(about himself) that he doesn’t want people to know about?
@Rose says: February 28, 2013 at 2:52 pm
The only reason I can think of for Kaine to walk away from a handsome judgment is a desperate need for Terri alone to be found culpable. And the need that would offset big money most likely would stem from a determination to have sole custody/no visits with Kiara. This is only opinion resulting from reasoning.