Kyron Horman Missing: Civil Suit Against Terri Horman DELAYED AND SEALED- Prompted By NEW LEADS
Portland, OR- As many of you have been following since June 2010, there is a new development today in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
As predicted at BOC, the civil suit brought by Deisree Young, Kyron’s Mother, against Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and the defacto suspect in his disappearance has been granted an abatement.
In a sealed filing, motions by Assistant District Attorney Michael Schrunk and Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton were granted, delaying the suit . The motions included supporting affidavits that continuing the action as already ruled would compromise the investigation.
The decision presents an ironic twist .
Terri Horman’s lawyers originally fought vehemently to abate the action, but were unsuccessful. As recently as last week, the Judge in the case ordered medical records to be accessible to both parties to the action.
In Judge Kantnor’s decision to NOT abate the suit at the request of Attorney Peter Bunch for Terri Horman, the Multnomah County Prosecutors Office declared “no position” on the matter after being contacted by the court.
It is not known if that order prompted the request to delay the suit .
Sheriff Stanton, Eldin Rosenthal, Norm Frink and Stephen Houze declined comment at press time.
On Monday, Judge Henry Kantor granted the motions to abate the civil proceeding and ordered the motions and affidavits filed by the district attorney and sheriff sealed.
A hearing had been scheduled for Dec. 14 to hear Young’s attorney argue before the court to compel testimony from DeDe Spicher, an alleged witness in the case. Today’s ruling is likely to render a postponement of that proceeding.
Sheriff Dan Staton, told Oregon Live, it is based on early leads that are now panning out:
“There are a couple of investigative pieces that are going to open up,” Staton told The Oregonian Tuesday. “Our belief is they’re going to open up several investigative doors.”
He said the new “investigative avenues” are based on information collected in the early phase of the investigation that are now yielding some results.
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Rose says:
March 18, 2013 at 7:45 pm
@TRith. didn’t wife divorce him (drugs & dames)?
Maybe it is her (his old) home up the street.
Maybe Kaine learned a kesson from that putcome.
Presumeably she got house, kids, & $.
**************
Yes, that’s what I *had* thought, but if you look at the document I posted, it appears that he is now owner of his parents home in WA, and the tax bill lists that same Edgebrook property as where he resides to receive a bill, 2013.
http://pacificwa.taxsifter.com/taxsifter/t-assessor.asp?pid=73011045001
Don’t think he’d be giving his ex his parent’s house. And it is weird that WW reported him as living in Aloha at the time. I just wondered if any of you ever found it if he truly did live down the street from the Horman’s, cuz I ain’t seein’ it. If not, why the heck would he say that? (I always have this weird feeling that everyone who presented themselves in this case is FOS.)
@TRuth. maybe he moved there in Oct 2012,
or maybe he’s leased it to parents.
Wonder if sales price is about right?
Zillow estimates @ $302,000. Parents conveyed for $350k
Reasoning out the possibiliies, then would it be correct to assume that “someone” also conspired with pal MC to setup annoying, overweight wifey-dear with a little “sexting”?
…and then could the assuption then made that “someone” might have also set her up via obnoxious emails, making it appear that annoying, overweight wifey-dear did it all herself?
Could “someone” really be THAT smart, and still not get caught? Would have to be pretty good on computers, I would think, snark.
@erose says: March 19, 2013 at 3:06 am
I have no doubt DY read them, and determined them to be hateful. So either TH wrote them, or someone else did.
Pacific WA
http://www.wsp.wa.gov/information/releases.htm
T. Ruth says:
March 19, 2013 at 12:12 pm
Disregard Pacific WA post. Your post was Pacific County. Sorry.
FWI Long Beach is usually vaca property.
apologies TRuth. I see it was another parcel that conveyed in 2012 for 350k.
& Edgebrook mailing address differs. Nice home on Edgebrook btw if
that’s where TH visited. cul de sac golf course community.
No matter who wrote the emails and did the sexting, they were acquired in the process of investigation. LE then gave them to Kaine and Desiree. It’s bad enough that LE gave investigative material to private citizens to be used against another private citizen, but someone provided them to the press, something LE surely foresaw. Since the content of emails & sexting have no connection with Kyron’s disappearance or Murder for Hire other than to be used in court (if they could be authenticated) to build a picture of Teri’s character, providing them to the press to publish was intended purely for character assassination. Why is LE assisting Kaine and Desiree in using media to turn Terri into a pariah? The story was they all wanted to pressure her into “confessing”. I understand using any and all interrogative techniques (though I don’t agree with the use of lies) to get a confession, since when is it lawful to involve the whole community by means of Kaine, Desiree and the media? Is there no limit to what LE is allowed to do?
I have not checked the statute for this, but in many jurisdictions releasing sensitive investigative info to anyone who is not a member of LE is a crime. I can tell you it is highly frowned upon and subject to cross in a criminal matter as if KH was an agent of the state.
You know what that means? It had better been spelled out in a warrant or whatever it is subject to suppression in the first place.
I daresay that is going to come back. To the extent that it involved any sort of matrimonial issue- TH has a right to know in the first place.
B
LE is allowed to lie, but can they take it to the streets, so to speak? I have decided Mult Co LEO’s have dysfunctional boundary issues.
grasshopper says:
March 19, 2013 at 4:11 pm
TH writing hateful emails supports LE’s theory of TH and an accomplice. Not sure if KH is at the bottom of it, or LE, or TH. emails could
RedRose says:
March 19, 2013 at 1:41 pm
Emails could go to the heart of why Kyron disappeared, at least they do from DY’s perspective. That’s why I wonder if TH really wrote them, who she wrote them to, and why. Why could DY release their existence but not release the verbiage?
@grasshopper. re “someone provided them to the press, something LE surely foresaw…”
You are very charitable to LE. how likely is it ’twas an LE member who leaked the content to the cops & crime expert
& the 1st Amendment will be litigated to shield the reporter from ratting out her source. And no one will
fund that litigation in a divorce.
7/28/10
http://www.king5.com/news/Terri-Horman-sent-strange-emails-the-day-Kyron-disappeared-says-Kyrons-mom-99467399.html
references “day of” emails
One very strange paragraph though describing an interview:
Kaine states
1) I had an affair with Terri when D was 8 mos. pregnant
2) Terri lied about when our relationship began, because I (only) hired her (originally) to take care of Kyron.
He basically is saying the “affair”
when my wife was pregnant was not a relationship. She was hired help to take care of my baby. (I wonder if he got privileges?)
Imo his pot is blacker than her kettle even if she actually slept with Rudy or Michael.
What bothers me most about that:
1. Desiree already spilled the beans he cheated on her with TH- that was months before Ky was born- was sex part of the nanny interview?
2. When he said that, he had to know TH would not publicly contradict him- why?
B
Interview of KH & DY. 1/2 way (about 12 min) discuss the lies that TH told about her relationship with KH.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/terri_hormans_emails_to_kyron.html
erose- thank you for re-posting this. In no way do I wish to sound arrogant, but I know this case inside and out, backward and forward and this was still a refresher for me. I would encourage all who follow this case closely to do the same.
My observations/analysis on the interview below.
1. Kaine DID NOT attend Skyline Thursday June 3rd, neighbor was not sure, and this should clear it up.
2. LE was the only source of the information THROUGH TMH repeating of it, that she was told that her cell pings did not line up with her accounts of activity.
B: this is post sting- so we know if that is true that either LE was telling Kaine things they were not telling Desiree or it was not included in any of the conversations to get Kaine to move out in anticipation of the sting. What was? My take- this is BS.
This is cop speak to catch a person into telling something to mitigate suspicion ( premise: only one with something to hide would do this). It is a simple matter of + or – ping radius capability. In other words, and I discussed this early, if the radius of accuracy prior to triangulation is 3-5 mi then it is easy to say.. Well, you say you were here at (insert) but we have your cell pinging here, why are you lying don’t you want to find you son? This was really in the first days/weeks. I know TMH may have given her permission for all things cellular, but in general depending on service provider LE must still get a warrant. If the amber alert was used, I can tell you that no exigent circumstances were used to exact such warrants so they take a minimum of 3 weeks to a month to produce a ping study and that study is only as useful as the type of phone, and that it was on and in use. Reminding all the phone was in Kaine’s name. They released a request for video and pics taken by travelers on specific roads for the 3rd and 4th. In general, they matched the search areas. They know through CCTV and documented transaction receipts where she was and when. This is a flat out algorithm program at this point, and don’t let anyone tell you differently. I say again, if the agencies entrusted with our own National Security cannot provide said analysis of that very point let me tell you that Bin Laden would still be living. We all know right out of MCSO’s reporting ( no doubt through serious overtime charge backs) that they were consulted and active in this case.
3. Kaine and Desiree have formed separate reasonings on the truck usage Friday June 4th, but arrive at the conclusion that she did not use the truck Friday for her stated purpose.
B: This is completely ridiculous. Desiree states she got an email the night before that TMH would look into getting the project the next day so that she could see it that weekend. See below. This is tantamount to confirmation from me that TMH did not know that Desiree was not coming until then.
4. The article is largely interpreted info by the reporter. Specifically the rambling missives comment.
5. TMH was usually home when he returned from work. Kaine’s office is upstairs.
6. In fact, Desiree states she was very communicative that day. Desiree is reaching here. She actually only got 1 email the night before, two that afternoon which she states was short and to the point ( these came right after she uploaded to facebook). Desiree is unsure if TMH sent those from her phone and Kaine responds “they were from her email account, the laptop.”
B: Did anyone consider that she was miffed because now her Friday night would consist of schlepping Kyron to the meeting point instead of Desiree taking him from school directly? Secondly, why is that not mentioned at all- no reference to the weekend wrt to TMH taking the truck at all? Nothing on that, nothing on the ice cream after school.
7. Desiree’s response to the reporter “Who said they met up, do you have a source on that?” When asked if they knew what time TMH and DS met up on June 4th?
B: self explanatory in contrast to the known reports of the time. I did find it interesting that Desiree is only interested in sourced information but extremely willing to use un-sourced to form her opinions on TMH and possible involvement. Desiree is never asked about giving up custody to Kaine and defacto to TMH as they then married, etc but she did offer opinions on motherly instinct. There was room for this discussion and I truly wonder if that was a question that was off the table by some means.
8. Kaine’s long winded answer about what TMH friends may or may not know when “strung together” (my words) will provide the where WHO and when.
Repeat and underline on the who. B:Is this Kaine’s reference to suspect zero?
9.This is classic- Reporter- What kind of lies are we talking about here (wrt TMH) question to Desiree- (whispering Desiree to kaine- “do you want me to talk about that? Kaine response “Well, do we have anything more recent?”
B: This is Kaine controlling info. Understand this. Neither Kaine nor Desiree is in a position to withhold information they feel was pertinent to a SUSPECT. For any reason. They are in no position to judge whether or not it might not be relative to a witness out there, or maybe even to compel someone to come forward based on that knowledge. This obvious attempt at self preservation in the face of this situation numbs me. It was also clear to me that whatever that meeting story is, it has never been confirmed because Kaine specifically states that they disagree on how they viewed the situation outside of it being a painful time for both. Imo only Kaine and TMH truly know that and how one thinks it is important to bring up lies they feel she told from that very timeframe but not discuss that makes me suspect of Kaine’s motives.
10. Desiree says she does not want to mention things that might harm the case, Kaine answers that she and desiree were friends before she started dating kaine. He dispels the lie that Kaine hired TMH to watch Kyron and that TMH had a full time job when he met her.
(Note: Iirc this info allegedly came from a neighbor. Is it really such a stretch to think TMH lied because the alternative would be to explain how she is caring for a newborn son of her lover who is not hers? Could it be that she realized that it was not in Ky’s best interests perhaps to learn that story in actuality someday?) “Pure speculation on my part- but I have been told that friends where we stayed an extended period of time have since told me that their alcohol levels were abruptly down”. ( How does that interview response translate into her passed out on the couch drunk with a toddler running around???) “I just found this out recently, and this is since the DUI”
B: so let me get this straight, you can reference the DUI as your first knowledge she drank at all, and was allegedly behind your back. You opine that she was overtaking stims and drinking herself to sleep every night due to the competition and then fast forward 7 years and a baby later and nothing mentioned about in your home, and friends who now have been told TMH is involved are telling you their alcohol was disappearing when she was there but nobody apparently noticed?
11. Did this have anything to do with her depression diagnosis? Immediate response from Desiree: “That’s not a diagnosis, there was no confirmed diagnosis”. Kaine- “she told me that she was taking a Dr. prescription for it but i don’t have the information on what she was taking. Desiree- “PPD is not this. It is staying home and not wanting anything to do with your kids, not manipulating others to harm someone ( pay very close attention to that choice of words by Desiree).
B: In no stretch of the imagination and definitely not indicative of a mfh allegation does the word “manipulated” come into use. Why would Desiree claim “it was not a diagnosis when Kaine states she was under a Dr. care, and that she was taking meds. I find this conflict incongruent. What does that mean then that it was “never confirmed” then?
What can be inferred here by these conflicting statements?
12. Is Kiara asking for TMH at all? Kaine: no, she isn’t. And her demeanor is- she’s a whole new kid. Desiree- yeah, she is.
B: Is Desiree for real weighing in on the behavior changes to this child she has never spent any expanded time with in her natural setting? This interview occurs July 27-28th, roughly one month past his divorce filing. Notice Kaine’s response was not “in the beginning” or “it took a while” as even an acknowledgement of the departure of this baby’s primary caregiver and Mother. This child who was flushing diapers in the toilet because mom was in the shower, whose Mom posted about her or pics of her nearly daily if not multiple times per day just vanishes, the child is misplaced out of her room/environment for weeks as well and she never asks about her Mother in relation to this change? His reactions to issues like this continue to disturb me.
13. Was TMH taking steroids? Kaine: not to my knowledge, but you guys saw the transformation- she went from 185 lbs to 123 lbs.
B: One has to assume he was speaking about the present. How does he know her exact weight? I know the answer to this, but I am throwing this out there for consumption. This answer from Kaine is patently disingenuous at best, imo. He was more fixated on her weight and appearance than she was. “Kaine wants me to do another show” This loss occurs from January to April. Reporter response: “O your kidding me.” Is Kaine confusing contests or dates here? I believe he said that the DUI was in September 2005. I have never seen pics of TMH in 2005 going from 185 to 123- has anyone else? Lastly, didn’t Kaine drop 25 lbs in the first month after Ky went missing?
14. Why was James sent to Roseberg? Kaine- “Well he spends summers with his Dad.” He was here for a week and then with the media frenzy and everything going on, it was just decided it was best to get him out of that environment.”
How was your relationship with James? Kaine- “I think it was good.”
B: Waa? He just completely sidestepped (generous term) I mean, omitted the entire fact that James went to live with the Moulton’s, TMH legally CHANGED HIS NAME, changed schools months earlier. There is no way he did not understand the question. It was not until the follow up where the reporter states that some friends of TMH provided info about problems in the home does Kaine address this in direct response. “Um, two boys and a teenage father…”
Desiree chimes in.. “Honestly I think Kaine had a more structured parenting style as opposed to Terri.. I think sometimes when there are different parenting styles it can give you trouble in that area.”
Kaine: And I dont want to get to off track, but I think James would say the same thing. He had told me in the past if anything really bad would happen he would want to come live with me..”
B: If anything really bad would happen? When and what prompted such a conversation that he would (Kaine’s words) go to live with Kaine? Under what set of circumstances does such a dire topic come up? Does it bother anyone else that it is not know what prompted it and less than 2 minutes before Kaine completely ignores the direct question to him until he is called on it and his response goes from.. We had a good relationship to it was TMH who could not get along with him to now in some egregious crisis he is opting to live with his stepdad but is currently in the custody of his grandparents with their name?
In general, on this one, i gotta say, wth was Kaine not the subject of similar scrutiny almost immediately and almost literally deputized for this investigation on his spouse? This is why the DA wants all current actions stayed. It is going to be painfully obvious to anyone following this case as remotely as an occasional news blurb in the white noise of a barber shop over the Wahl clippers.
So does anyone think that inadvertently or quite naturally the responses to this interview completely erode any real or speculative motive on behalf of TMH to want to harm or secrete away Kyron Horman?
Translation:
Kaine did not send James to Roseberg- no vendetta or “son for son.”
TMH was never depressed, no knowledge of current substance abuse and only speculative on alcohol with no recall of any of this going on at home whatsoever.
She was generally home when he was, which if you buy his more recent comments, was almost daily.
Use of the word “manipulate” as opposed to hire, or coerce, collude, solicit in reference to a paid contractor who actually preformed work at the Horman home Kaine now refers to as “our” when previously was unaware he had one. Oh, and Kaine is living, breathing, and unharmed.
Didi and TMH were not close, he specifically says her name or she would come up about every 6 months. This is the go to person in a time of grave personal crisis when she is out tending a garden in an internship with her phone in her vehicle?? This is the person she ensnares for some dastardly deed to a 7 year old child?
Lastly and SUBSTANTIAL:
If Desiree did not inform that she would not be attending the science fair until Thursday June 3rd, which would be the assumption based on the need now for TMH to pick up the project early (Friday) and to check on tshirts to see if they were available for exhange by a person who was going to be at the science fair, then TMH had no prior knowledge that Desiree would not be attending prior to June 3rd.
So she plans the kidnapping of the century making Hauptman et al look like a hack and plead the case for alien tractor beam study in a few hours??
People. I am really not as smart as I sound or appear in this analysis of a 25 minute interview early in the case. (Well, maybe a little lol)
TMH as the only suspect in this case is completely illogical, defies the facts of the case,
As much as nobody is going to want to hear this, and I say it with respect and concern for them, and for all involved, but the two most likely suspects if I were profiling this case that would be at my start list would be the two people with history of sending a child to go live somewhere else for an extended period of time.
Do I think DY and KH were involved? No, I don’t. Do I think it possible that the same tangenital “let the vampire in” possibility exists with both of these individuals, ABSOLUTELY. It has to be excluded, period. Has it?
But that has no bearing on what an investigation of this magnitude and this alleged crime should look like on the surface at the very least. This is why this investigation is on it’s ass and this little boy has not been recovered and I pray that somebody with some stones engages the Atty General to take this case on.
KH & DY did a series of interviews on the 27th & 28th of July. McCain picks up on the fact that all the info is coming from the bios and it is an unusual circumstance. There are also several comments I will snip that are on the record that have been since eliminated from reports; DDS was witnessed leaving the property she was working, TH told the teacher and classmates that Kyron had a doctor’s appt., and the school faced immense scrutiny. Gosh, how I wish an investigative reporter would start this case from square one.
07-27-10
McCain noted Friday that the continued updates on the investigation that have been coming from Kyron’s parents are unusual for a complicated criminal case such as this.
“There’s been absolutely silence from this investigative team. Everything we’re learning about this is coming from Kaine and the Youngs,” he told “Good Morning America.”
snips>
1) The Oregonian reported that Spicher was spotted by a witness leaving her job for about 90 minutes on June 4, the day Kyron disappeared from his elementary school.
2) The family’s statement came one day after ABC’s Portland affiliate KATU reported that Terri Horman had told Kyron’s teachers and classmates that he would be out of the classroom that Friday at a doctor’s appointment, giving the school no reason to expect him back after the science fair that morning.
3) The school had faced immense scrutiny in the days and weeks after Kryon vanished after Horman told investigators that she last saw Kyron before leaving the fair and only realized he was missing when he didn’t get off the bus that afternoon.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/search-kyron-horman-grand-jury-convenes/story?id=11257303&page=2
Yep. Just war and peaced you on your other post, lol, sorry- much to consider all over again.
B
With his client’s permission, could Elden Rosenthal share the content of his depositions with Engel? (not rhetorical)
The content of James’ depo could very well be behind Engel (Kaine) wanting to abate. Something led both boys to want to move out of that home. Something that motivated James/Terri to do it together while Kaine was out of town. With Mother’s protection barred, Kiara needs a GAL. Wonder why Moawad in the Child Abuse Unit is not submitting a GAL request along with her abatement request, because she must work with GALs all the time & knows their value.
I believe in the initial complaint filing narrative Rosenthal stated they did not agree with Kaine’s position on the stay of the dissolution case.
B
Both these men arrested 11/10 are sex offenders
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/portland_bank_robber_suspects.html
See comments; one began at age 8 or 9 with a 3 yo.
Began robbing banks summer of 2010 & had passports ready to leave US. Both men hi tech,
one at Intel since 2005. (Intel didn’t know he was a SO because his
juvenile record was sealed.) There are Portland tech workers, even at Intel, who fit SZ
profile then. And perhaps Kyron ‘s SZ is confined on another charge.
Wasn’t Rosenthal’s initial complaint prior to James’ depo?
I’m suggesting content of James’ depo might’ve slowed him
(and/or Engels) down.
Yes, the tort action compelled his depo.
I am thinking the only thing that slowed down the case is the order on medical records. There is no doubt in my mind after reading that order it is the impetus. We now have an order that says basically the producer of those records can do whatever the eff they want with them.
So, that would be construed imo as usable in the dissolution case. Why would the DA care about that?
So presumably Kaine knows something TMH doesn’t know that he knows and it is medical related.
Is it her secret fertility drugs that apparently have delayed onset homicidal ideations?
Yeah, should have come with a snark alert.
B
re-reading early press, in July 2010 & thereafter Staton’s spokesman generally said the “investigation is making significant progress” often attributing to tips & leads.
So I don’t see how “a witness” last Nov differs. Since we only have depos of Dede & James,
and we know hers, that leaves James’ to have caused Engels’ about face.
Keep in mind that virtually all information we have about this case, about Kyron, about who did what why, about what LE says comes from Kaine and Desiree. It has not been confirmed by LE or Terri. It is likely that stories from these 2 will put them in the best light and Terri particularly in the poorest possible light. Take amll their stories with a grain of salt.
Reminds e of the universal gag order to school personnel and parents, even Kaine’s initial email to Intel employees to not talk to media. Why keep all these details secret?
One thing that was answered by LE was in answer to the question of which agencies were involved:
Gresham Police, Fairview Police, Troutdale Police, Portland Police, Port of Portland Police, Clackamas County Sheriff’s Office, Clackamas County DA MCT, Multnomah County DA’s investigators, Washington County District Attorney’s Office, Washington County Sheriff’s Office, Gladstone Police, Oregon City Police, Milwaukie Police, Canby Police, Lake Oswego Police, West Linn Police, Vancouver Police, Hillsboro Police, Beaverton Police, FBI, DEA, ICE, Secret Service, DOD Defense Criminal Investigative Services, Oregon DOJ, Oregon State Police.
This list does not include search and rescue resources.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/mcso_progress_continues_in_sea.html
all the local police septs make sense, state police, but DEA, ICE, Secret Service, DOD Defense Criminal Investigative Services, that’s interesting.
On linkedin a couple days ago . . . the only thing I’ve ever seen posted from Clean Factor:
Jaime Estrada
clean factor have a special today for new customers whit grupon pass the info to your friends for great carpet cleaning discount Like Like Comment Share 2 days ago
So who was this man that neighbor thought might be KH, and what would give neighbor that impression? Was he with Kyron on June 3rd? Was the same man there on SF day? Did others have the impression on June 4th that the man with Kyron was his father?
snip>
1. Kaine DID NOT attend Skyline Thursday June 3rd, neighbor was not sure, and this should clear it up.
B
I did pay close attention to DY’s description of PPD. Sound like she speaks from experience.
Another tell in this interview is how KH speaks of his *last* encounter with Kyron. I realize he told it over and over for a month, but it’s cold, no matter how you slice it.
Who wouldn’t want a Blink War and Peace analysis? Sign me, Grateful.
Neighbor was never sure it was Kaine, or sure of the day- so for me I never thought more of that possible sighting than it was, and I was pretty sure if Kaine had been there on the third it would have come in the ‘splanation of him and his goodbye with Kyron that morning.
B
@Blink. TY for reasoning it was the med records’ production order that led to DA’s “intervention” request by affidavit to stay which J Kantor ordered despite DA having no standing to motion the Court. So, would records produced in the tort action be available then in the dissolution, or in a criminal trial or grand jury?
What could Kaine know that TMH doesn’t know he knows, that would lead to his stay request? Something he would
not want disclosed from her med records in the divorce. Seems to me disclosure would hurt her, not him, in the divorce. Unless, they had an open marriage, is Kiara is his?
In the words of a colleague of mine it can be used to line a birdcage if so desired by the producing party.
B
WOW – Blink! You give us LOTS to think about; hope LE is reading here.
Incidentally,…
back when Kyron first disappeared, I used to look around at various discussion groups before I first lit here and stayed. One that always made me scratch my head in puzzlement was that Alternate Theories website because they did so much Kaine-bashing. Seemed mean to me. …not so much any more.
Some of the early stuff is here:
http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010_08_01_archive.html
and
http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/08/kyron-horman-case.html
I haven’t gone back to read any of it lately, just remembered it after your post. It could be that there is a nugget of truth here and there, but I have to get off the computer and clean my house, so….
I don’t think anyone is interested in Kaine bashing. I do think it is what i said- have the same investigative standards been applied to exclusion here? I don’t believe so- I think theory has driven this investigation aground and MCSO hopes the tarp will hold.
While I am it let me say this- It completely pisses me off that this amount of adults who are believed to at least be reasonable cannot see that none of this convulsion will produce a stitch of information that will ultimately lead to Kyron’s recovery.
I am seriously pretty close to taking the position that there are persons in this case that do not want a conclusion here.
I work for Kyron Horman. This cluster is not leaving anyone to advocate for this boy first. It pains me to say this, but his parents have had to come to the conclusion that nobody knows where he is, and they are no closer under the current investigation and if they continue to sit on their ass and hold nobody responsible I find such motivations for doing so beyond suspect.
What’s another 6 months, 9 months? Has anyone come clean from LE what that would even mean for Ky if he were alive statistically speaking?
I want to know why these 2 are not acting like parents that have no effing clue where their son is, who has him, or if he was killed within hours of his disappearance via a stranger abduction WHICH THEY KNOW AND WERE TOLD was possible.
Again I say- this is simple. Ky was last seen with an unsub- suspect zero. To date no connection has been made to TMH.
Setting everything else aside, I want to see the investigative files on an unsub. Do they even fill a folder? I would love to have a hole in one myself, but the best I have ever come was a lucky eagle. On skill alone I have never broken 120.
If only Jack Welch ran investigative six sigma.
B
We are going on year 3- this little sweetie boy breaks my heart.
By the way, I always thought it was “interesting” the way DY was always with KH for those early interviews …and then suddenly one day DY was no longer standing next to Kaine (I think she said they took different paths or something).
Well, no matter what – unless one of them tells more than they are, Kyron will remain GONE. Too sad. Parents (all 3) covering their own BUTTS to the detriment of one little lost boy. How selfish. MOO, escuse the crude language.
She said she no longer agrees with things he is doing, and specifically, I took that to mean making up shit for the dissolution case.
How would you feel if Kaine held back ( depending on who you believe) or flat out lied about the things when your child was now missing and apparently in your estimation it was preventable?
B
@Blink. TY for smart analysis.
what would it take for State AG to pluck from
local State’s DA? How did it happen in PA?
Oregon Bar leadership seems so incestuous & ethically iffy (based on
Aloha attorney writeups–and the procedural doings & judicial
assignments in Kyron-associated cases to date–imo State AG would
be insufficient. Best scenario would be finding he crossed State lines &
criminal investigation is led by Feds & prosecution moves to Fed Court imo.
Never happen. No evidence Ky went 5 yards let alone out of state.
B
PS isn’t it some antidepressants that can have homicidal ideation as a side effect?
(if I take fertility drug comment as more than snark)
A defense to her alleged anti-Kaine “manipulation” ?
well you are talking about two entirely different pharmas. It would be irresponsible for me to even guess, and as you know in my former drug pushing life ( please anyone who does not know me this is a crack on my former professional role in agency working for Pharma Clients in the launch and relaunch capacity. )
B
I wasn’t challenging it being KH, I am wondering who the heck it was. I mean, here is another parent at school on June 3rd, getting the impression Kyron’s dad was at school. kwim?
No only reaching, but contradicted, imo. She states TH sometimes sends 5 wordy emails a day, but on this day there were a) not that many, and b) short and to the point. So how does that = communicative? Also, this is, imo, a fairly close relationship between these women. KH states, and DY even agrees that they only communicated with Kyron 2X a week when he was at the other’s house the past summer break. DY and TH communicated at least everyday.
snip>
6. In fact, Desiree states she was very communicative that day. Desiree is reaching here. She actually only got 1 email the night before, two that afternoon which she states was short and to the point ( these came right after she uploaded to facebook). Desiree is unsure if TMH sent those from her phone and Kaine responds “they were from her email account, the laptop.”
B
The whole statement is disjointed. I should avail all that I have spent at least 10 hours over the last week analyzing statements of prelim suspects in practice and forensic linguistic attributes leading to finding- both verbal and non-verbal. Talk about technique being a critical import here-
B
If Kaine had seen the set up on 6/3,
darn tooting he’d have mentioned
it to validate he was a good father
who went the extra mile when he couldn’t
attend the 4th, imo.
Yep, he worked from home mostly and this was an abirrition- btw, not knocking his need to be in his office- if not for Dad working when my children were little, and when I went back I needed to have the flexibility of working from home or scheduling clients appropriately to meet the demands of my job, I get that 100%. Want to make sure everyone knows I am not judging on the missing an event-
B
the only person with stones I see here is Moawad, who appears to have this case, & whose Dad is a Dem State legislator of a decade & before that a PPB Lt & Union leader. Backed by business & labor.
I suppose after receiving constituent requests, State Repr Dad could write a note of concern re the investigation to the State AG because he represents this area, but you think his daughter would thank him for having to give this case up?
lol, er- no.
B
Behind the scenes, it’s clear law enforcement has settled on a highly unusual strategy of relying on the family itself to release public information and bring pressure on those accused of being less than cooperative with investigators. First it was Terri who was singled out by Kaine and Desiree in news conferences, then DeDe Spicher and other friends. Kaine says investigators have never asked him outright to release any specific information, but when the family feels that doing so might help solve the case, they ask permission. Although they haven’t consulted lawyers of their own, they don’t fear any legal repercussions. “We haven’t done anything that’s exposed ourselves,” Desiree says. “We’ve been very safe about it.”
http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-12305-the_kyron_files.html
Thus the short emails. I did consider that way back, because for many years, I was a schlepper. I am also somewhat of a planner and had my share of going with the flow, when someone else’s plan change affected my carefully timed plans so I could fit everything in.
Also, consider KH’s statement of placing the project on the backseat. Incorrect, imo. Car seat with baby and Kyron belong in the backseat. Did he ever haul the kids around in the truck? Project would have been placed either behind the backseat possibly being bent or squished, or more likely front seat.
snip>
B: Did anyone consider that she was miffed because now her Friday night would consist of schlepping Kyron to the meeting point instead of Desiree taking him from school directly? Secondly, why is that not mentioned at all- no reference to the weekend wrt to TMH taking the truck at all? Nothing on that, nothing on the ice cream after school.
Blink says:
March 20, 2013 at 2:10 am
(snipped)
10. Desiree says she does not want to mention things that might harm the case, Kaine answers that she and desiree were friends before she started dating kaine. He dispels the lie that Kaine hired TMH to watch Kyron and that TMH had a full time job when he met her.
(Note: Iirc this info allegedly came from a neighbor……(snipped)
Actually, the information that was reported in the paper came from none other than one of Kaine Horman’s ex-sister in laws (one of Kristian’s ex wives). It has always been my belief that if Terri was going around telling lies about how she and Kaine met and when and why, then it most likely didn’t start with her. Terri was single when she had an affair with Kaine. It’s common knowledge that most married men, don’t mention the fact that they are married when they first begin an affair. Kaine was not only still married, but his wife was extremely pregnant. JMO, but I believe Kaine Horman more than likely started the lie so as not to appear to *his* side of the family that he was as much of a cad as he was, and Terri probably just went along with it for the ride.
Mr. Horman speaks with fork tongue far to often in this case for me to believe anything he says. Another example:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.html (July 8, 2010)
Horman said he thought his marriage to Terri Moulton Horman fractured within six months after she gave birth in November 2008, the result of postpartum depression.
Terri Horman was put on medication for the depression, and her doctor told Kaine to keep an eye on her to make sure she was OK,*** he said***. But she wasn’t OK.
“She’s had a lot of emotional outbursts,” he said. “I think it’s still with her. I don’t know if it’s postpartum or something else.”
http://www.katu.com/news/98654424.html (July 16, 2010)
KATU: Was Terri bi-polar, either diagnosed or not? Was she on medication at any point for mental health issues?
Kaine: Not that I am aware of but that would be between Terri and her Doctor.
***
Oooops, I guess he forgot what he said in the first interview. I just can’t believe that LE has not caught all his lies. There are many more. Sometimes I think it may be him who is truly under LE’s scrutiny. What does his BAU profile say? Anyway, don’t get me started, I could go on like this all day. Don’t get me wrong, Terri may be just as bad as he is, but I’ve yet to see anything from her that out-and-out contradicts the little verbiage we’ve seen from her. I guess my big quandary is WHY isn’t everyone asking Kaine about his inconsistencies? I’ve always found it interesting that Kaine threw out WW right after they published the article about Desiree’s RO against him. He was even going to throw out the O, but they were kept on. What did they publish just prior to that? Why would any man whose son is missing throw out any news media source? I’m sure the FBI must have something to say about that right?
***********
Blink, thanks for the analysis. If neighbor was unsure, why did she confirm her sighting to me here in 2011 then and even give the time she saw him there? She sure sounded sure of herself.
neighbor says:
April 8, 2011 at 7:27 pm
correct, 3pm
T. Ruth says:
April 8, 2011 at 1:38 pm
@neighbor
Am I reading here correctly that you personally saw KH at Kyron’s school on Thursday, June 3rd? If so, do you recall approximately what time that was? (Hope you don’t find my asking too intrusive.)
**************
(Sorry, I don’t have the link for that one, but it was in the DAD section here, I have linked it before though, just can’t find it right now.)
oh fudge. just got it I think. One adversity possible in Desiree’s and/or Terri’s
medical records could be (physical or emotional) injuries secondary to marital disagreements.
erose says:
March 20, 2013 at 2:10 am
Blink says:
“This is why this investigation is on it’s ass and this little boy has not been recovered and I pray that somebody with some stones engages the Atty General to take this case on.”
Regarding Atty General – Here’s the reply I got when I requested help – of course, I’m a “nobody”. Don’t have a scanner – I typed a copy.
ORIGINAL POST AUGUST 11, 2011
Response from Kate Medema, Legislative and Constituent Affairs, Office of the Attorney General – Oregon
August 10, 2011
Thank you for your recent correspondence to the Oregon Department of Justice, Office of the Attorney General regarding the Kyron Horman investigation. Many Oregonians are trouble by the terrible events surrounding Kyron’s disappearance. Unfortunately, Attorney General Kroger does not have jurisdiction or authority to intervene in this matter.
Oregon law prohibits the Attorney General and employees of the Department of Justice from providing legal advice to private individuals. See ORS 180.060. Likewise, we do not do investigations on individual matters. DOJ serves as counsel to state agencies, boards and commissions, but we are limited in our capacity to investigate, monitor, or control the activities of other state and local government agencies, including investigations by county sheriff’s offices. Our office may only serve the public by enforcing Oregon’s consumer protection law, regulating charitable activities, enforcing child support obligations, and providing support for victims of violent crime.
Under Oregon law, the power to conduct criminal prosecution belongs to the district attorney serving the county where the alleged crime took place (last 6 words in italics). Although DOJ may provide assistance to the district attorney upon request, the district attorney has exclusive jurisdiction in criminal matters. I regret that our agency is limited by jurisdiction and cannot be directly helpful to this cause, but we are grateful to engaged citizens like you who take the time to correspond with us.
—————————————-
Not surprising except that the response was very fast. I am assuming that “providing legal advice to private individuals” somehow refers to my request for confirmation to the public that school children are safe from the person or persons responsible, since I didn’t ask for personal legal advice. If nothing else, they know we have not forgotten and are still watching the investigation. Not giving up.
Thank you MBS- neither am i, neither are we.
B
I, too have speculated. The Christmas 2009 911 call which resulted in an ambulance, iirc, could that have been the result of a young man protecting his mother? A young man who was some would say, abruptly sent away soon after. These women had a common denominator and I don’t mean Kyron. What kind of conversations did DY and TH have to promote them to consider Kyron’s living situation. What was the motivation for TH to have that conversation?
Rose says:
March 20, 2013 at 5:48 pm
oh fudge. just got it I think. One adversity possible in Desiree’s and/or Terri’s medical records could be (physical or emotional) injuries secondary to marital disagreements.
I’m guessing that James returning to live with his mother, after everything written and said, spoke volumes as to whom he would rather live with.
snip>
14. Why was James sent to Roseberg? Kaine- “Well he spends summers with his Dad.” He was here for a week and then with the media frenzy and everything going on, it was just decided it was best to get him out of that environment.”
How was your relationship with James? Kaine- “I think it was good.”
B: Waa? He just completely sidestepped (generous term) I mean, omitted the entire fact that James went to live with the Moulton’s, TMH legally CHANGED HIS NAME, changed schools months earlier. There is no way he did not understand the question. It was not until the follow up where the reporter states that some friends of TMH provided info about problems in the home does Kaine address this in direct response. “Um, two boys and a teenage father…”
Desiree chimes in.. “Honestly I think Kaine had a more structured parenting style as opposed to Terri.. I think sometimes when there are different parenting styles it can give you trouble in that area.”
Kaine: And I dont want to get to off track, but I think James would say the same thing. He had told me in the past if anything really bad would happen he would want to come live with me..”
B
If I had asked that question of kaine and received that response, I would have asked him with that in mind, what was his opinion about why James did not request to return to live with him, or why he has not seen his sister.
B
I thought the civil suit stay occurred when it was time to depose desiree, kaine and tony. I don’t know what happened during James’ deposition but I’ve seen the extensive list of very personal questions asked of dede because it’s in the file. has it been posted here? If such questions were to be asked of the bios they wouldn’t like it a bit, nor would DA since he does not want them deposed at all. My guess is that DA asked to delay the case to prevent the depositions on the other side.
This could speak more to a problem with the teacher, than with Kyron.
snip>
“Terri wanted notification whether it was green, yellow, red or blue,” he said. “Every day she wanted it. That, to me, is extremely excessive. The child is in second grade.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html?mobRedir=false
Agreed, but either way if TMH was requesting status, she was structured.
B
No sources cited, but Lynn Terry states the Hormans met at a restaurant.
snip>
In the spring of 2002, Terri Horman hit the gym, working out at Bally Total Fitness in Aloha for hours at a stretch. In mid-June, a seven-month substitute teacher’s job at Lenox Elementary School ended. That same month, she met Kaine Horman at a restaurant when he was out with friends and the two started dating.
Desiree Young said that relationship broke up their marriage, but Kaine said they were already living separate lives in the same house. In August, when Desiree was 8 months pregnant, she filed for divorce.
Kyron was born Sept. 9.
At the time, Terri was living in a condo in Beaverton with her son. James, who was 8, remembers Kaine bringing Kyron over to the condo as a tiny baby.
In mid-December 2002, Terri and James moved into his house in Aloha, Kaine said.
Terri told Lynn Heidebrecht, who lived across the street, that she moved into the house to help care for Kyron.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html?mobRedir=false
@Blink. Are there persons in this case that do not want a conclusion here?
imo yes, if anyone other than TMH is charged & convicted.
Because if it concluded with anyone else, the lead detectives’ & Sheriff’s every investigative action would be
scrutinized, and Terri & Dede who due to silence have been private persons, would
have some heck of a libel case against multiple parties & agents. Kaine’s comments in the
last year that it could be someone else were as much posturing defensively for same.
Wonder what color Ms Porter notified Terri of on June 4?
(was email the regular system?)
So much for my 911 theory. He heard one fight in 8 years.
snip>
Although the couple fought, they did so in private. James said he only heard his mother and Kaine fight once in eight years. He described Kaine as calm but strict. “If you didn’t follow the rules, you’d get in trouble,” James said.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html?mobRedir=false
@TRuth. TY for history.
re: “Actually, the information that was reported in the paper came from none other than one of Kaine Horman’s ex-sister in laws (one of Kristian’s ex wives).”
Well, no wonder Kaine wanted to publically discredit the interview source as a liar.
Kristian had one ex-wife, responsible for ensuring Kristian’s prosecuton as a SO for molesting
her daughter, and getting Kristian’s defense out there that he was subject to generational molestation.
So I was wrong, Terri’s “let the grief & frustration hang out” emails about Hormans could as easily been to
Kristian’s ex as Topher’s wife. She was friendly on FB with both. In fact more likely Kristian’s ex as both had kids from prior marriages who were of concern.
haha, pretty funny. I’d dang well have an “emotional outburst”, too, if I found out that hubby-dearest was screwing around on me. (
I don’t think in any way KH would hurt Kyron, but I do think it’s MORE IMPORTANT to him to make himself look good in the press than have things get out that he doesn’t want told. IOW if he suspects someone that he knows of doing something, but if he told, it would put himself, Mr KH, right smack in the headlights.
…and I’m sure that when DY found out what he was up to when she was about to have his baby, she didn’t smile sweetly at him and say “Well, honey, don’t let the door hit you in the patooty on the way out….”
Nobody wants to look bad, and none of them seem to care one teeny bit about Kyron – it’s more important to them that they look OK to others. This includes ALL four of them, even Mr. Quiet, TY.
There was probably a LOT of emotional (and maybe physical) abuse going on – among the grown-ups. I don’t think they would have hurt the children.
@T. Ruth says: March 20, 2013 at 5:15 pm
(or)Blink says:March 20, 2013 at 2:10 am
(snipped)
Forked Tongue, lol
“She’s had a lot of emotional outbursts,” he said. “I think it’s still with her. I don’t know if it’s postpartum or something else.”
I hope to get you started, cuz I’ve been a blog hog today. I agree with your statement, thought the same thing, but I see Blink turning us away from that direction. It’s almost like those cheesy cops shows where there are 4 characters, all equally suspicious, and then the last 5 minutes the story brings in a never before seen character who confesses.
I could be wrong but I think we are being told there is are elements of (their) ignorance and (our) perception (motivated by guilt?) that are keeping these people from straight talking, and without the straight talk, information is being suppressed.
Now onto neighbor. How is it that s/he makes a statement like that? Did s/he believe that s/he saw KH at school? If so, was it really KH? If it was not, then who is to say someone did not make that same mistake on SF day. “There goes Kyron with his dad.” Why can’t this person be SZ? Talk about a dry run.
T. Ruth says:
March 20, 2013 at 5:15 pm
snip>
Sometimes I think it may be him who is truly under LE’s scrutiny.
You rock!
MockingbirdSings says:
March 20, 2013 at 6:06 pm
” No evidence Ky went 5 yards let alone out of state”. Yes.
Did any search team ever use cadaver dogs in the school itself?
—
You know those Bonneville Fdatn team members
(planned & managed projects and taught recipient
schools’ classrooms) itinerated across various NW States.
A lot of discussion on what’s legal and illegal in this case of a missing child, but not so much on what is morally right.
From what I saw of and heard from DY in the months preceding October 2010, her belief seemed to be Kyron was hidden away and once someone got over whatever had been bugging them, Kyron would be returned.
In my opinion, LE had an obligation to inform DY, as the mother of a missing child, there was a chance her son may have come to some physical harm, and to prepare her for that possibility. Withholding that possibility would have been cruel.
DY, has referenced multiple emails to multiple people (sorry, no longer have the link to her exact words).
If these emails contained how TMH wanted to hurt Kyron, as DY has said, and then shortly after those emails Kyron goes missing, I don’t think the receivers of those emails would want their names made public.
I for one believe those emails have not been made public by anyone including DY, because said emails are being held as evidence.
DY herself has said so herself.
If TMH had nothing whatsoever to do with Kyron’s disappearance, she had, imo only, the moral obligation as a mother, stepmother, and fellow human being, to do all she could to convince DY to stop wasting precious time, emotions and energies looking at her. Yes, even after DY went public on her feelings and thoughts.
Instead, she remained silent for over 2 1/2 years.
How’s that working out from a moral perspective?
How’s that working out in terms of her daughter and clearing up a “wrong path” to Kyron?