Kyron Horman Exclusive Report: New Suspect And Botched Investigation Rumors Abound- Terri Horman Prepares To Fight For Couples Daughter Following Seclusion
If you are reading this and have followed the Kyron Homan disappearance coverage since he vanished from Skyline School on June 4th 2010, you know my coverage and commentary has focused on the macro analysis of the case details- both publicly available and via developed sources. This report contains newly released information known to law enforcement. It’s contents, to include reader commentary and moderation response, may not be reproduced or copied without express written consent by it’s author in accordance with applicable copyright law.
*TONIGHT* LIVE ON THE DANA PRETZER SHOW- S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief discusses the Kyron Horman Case status LIVE at 9PM EST.
Click Here To Listen To Podcast
Last Week’s Meet And Greet
On Tuesday July 30th, the attorneys representing Terri Moulton Horman, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young attended a series of case hearings. Not held in chambers as announced, but public guests were barred.
On the docket- Desiree Young’s “stay” status of the $10 million dollar civil tort action brought against Terri Horman and the dissolution (divorce and custody) litigation brought by Kaine Horman, Terri’s estranged husband. Until July 26th, there were additional hearings and status conferences scheduled for the recently renewed Freedom From Abuse and Protection Act (FAPA) motion to contest and compel depositions in the restraining order prohibiting Terri Horman from contact with the couple’s daughter Kiara, now 5 years old. Horman has not seen her daughter since June 2010 despite several attempts through counsel to arrange parenting time. Engel, one of the attorneys representing Kaine Horman, argues that the FAPA case is consolidated with the divorce action, and therefore stayed.
Peter Bunch, counsel for Terri Horman, argues that there is no consolidation order.
Non attorney’s still do not understand how the initial proceeding to renew the FAPA order occurred when the plaintiff failed to file the required motion and accompanying affidavits in advance as required, or even serve the respondent’s attorneys until ordered to do so by Judge Henry Kantor once the hearing commenced. Kantor ordered the renewal anyway. I will let the goodly Oregon bar members weigh in on that anomaly.
That was then. This is now.
As of July 31st, the FAPA restraining order was expired and a civil no contact order was put in its place. The dissolution matter (divorce) stay has been lifted and Desiree Young announced she was instructing her attorney’s to withdraw the $10 million dollar suit financed by public donations.
On the same front steps where Atty Rosenthal announced that they were launching the suit to peel the onion that is to include law enforcement, and to “make Terri Horman talk” was withdrawn in similar fashion.
However, on this occasion, Multnomah County District Attorney Rod Underhill was not spotted on the steps observing. Rosenthal and Young indicated the recent appearance and testimony of former object of compulsion to testify, DeDe Spicher, as well as information that the investigative case file necessary (their words) to prove their claims would not be forthcoming. In an article analyzing the suit appearing on BOC it was predicted that Ms. Young would face possible countersuit and associated fees should the suit continue as filed.
Attorneys for both Kaine and Terri appeared before Multnomah County Circuit Family law Judge Susan Svetkey on August 1, 2013. Judge Svetkey is Houze’s wife. The docket information for that hearing has not yet been entered into the file as of this publication.
The only comment about the withdrawal of the civil tort action by Stephen Houze:
“The lawsuit was unfounded and lacking in legal merit,” Houze said. “One can only hope that the dismissal of this meritless lawsuit receives the same degree of media scrutiny as was given to its filing.”
In recent interviews, Kaine Horman has intimated that his wife has expressed her desire to help find Kyron, or at least contribute to excluding herself as a possible suspect. He also admitted that he no longer has any communication with Desiree Young, Kyron’s mother. He sometimes wonders what law enforcement is actually doing on his son’s case. This is a firm departure from how Mr. Horman initially retained his six figure attorney Laura Rackner of Gearing, Rackner, and Engel & McGrath. Ms. Rackner appears to have promulgated her duties of late to her partner, Brett Engel.
This all seemed to start when formidable and well known tort Attorney Mark Wagner came out of retirement to appear as counsel for Terri Horman. Wagner and Rackner know each other, and Rackner is no stranger to LE –based dissolution entanglements.
In fact, Wagner represented her and her previous firm successfully.
Bagel Finagle
Kaine Horman’s attorney Laura Rackner is no stranger to law enforcement infused litigation. She is a former prosecutor for Oregon’s department of Justice, The U.S. Department of Justice, and Office of Chief Counsel. Ms. Rackner has specificity in Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) casework.
Born in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Laura received her B.S. in 1979 and her J.D. in 1984, both from the University of Oregon.
Prior to entering private practice, Laura served as deputy district attorney in the Marion County District Attorney’s Office; assistant attorney general in the Oregon Department of Justice; and on the staff of the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Chief Counsel, Drug Enforcement Administration.
Record Scratch.
Martin Rob Cagan, The bagel king and according to him, a supreme target of a police shakedown at the hands of his former spouse’s attorneys was the litigious sort.
In fact, this may be how Atty Wagner decides to come out of retirement and become part of Terri Horman’s defense team while the civil suit was active.
Wagner’s firm represented Ms. Rackner in a suit filed by Rob Cagan in which he sued the Dueshete Police Department, A partner in the firm representing Caroleen Vanhoomissen, the suit (or ramblings of a very angry divorcee) alleges that the firm and its lawyers facilitated the difficulties of Mr. Cagan utilizing law enforcement sources directly by the attorneys was dismissed.
Ms. Vanhoomissen, the sister of Judge Vanhoomissen is also the owner of a horse farm in Bend, Oregon. Blinkoncrime was unable to verify if it was the Bend horse farm searched in the early days of the investigation for Kyron.
Attorney Rackner’s prior working relationship with the DEA, the very agency that supplied the undercover officer in the failed sting involving Horman landscaper Rudy Sanchez begs the question- Did Rackner use her contacts and/or credentials to facilitate a surreptitious ruse to gain favor for her client in anticipation of his wife’s potential arrest?
Kaine is on record that law enforcement informed him they had probable cause to arrest Terri. What is not on record, is what came first- the referral to Rackner.
I just want to do what I can to help law enforcement
Seems like an odd comment coming from a family attorney with a background as a prosecutor working with the DEA, which agency subsequently becomes involved in the case- or initially led to her representation- the chicken or the egg facts remain unclear.
The ex parte and originally sealed restraining order did not exclude Terri Horman from the marital home. Was this an oversight of a very seasoned family attorney or was the basis of the now defunct restraining order as provided to Kaine Horman and Laura Rackner by law enforcement effectively invalidated by Terri Horman calling 911?
Is the reason that Atty Engel seems to have taken over representation of Kaine Horman due to the fact that these actions could render Ms. Rackner a witness in her client’s case as opposed to his Attorney?
In the motions and subsequent hearing scheduled for July 30th, the only available arguments outside of the parties agreement is to contest the basis for the FAPA order- or, the allegation Kaine Horman has made within his affidavits more than once, that his wife tried to hire “our landscaper” to kill him, and that she is being investigated for “violent crimes.”
The outcome?
The order was converted to a civil no-contact order which has not yet been added to the file for public review.
Desiree and Kaine’s respective camps both claimed “protecting the integrity of the investigation” was their only interest although the ONLY 2 witnesses who were summoned for deposition by Terri Horman’s lawyers were- the lead investigator of Kyron’s investigation for 18 months- Bobby John O’Donnell and Kaine Horman.
Back To School
Skyline School, the International Baccalaureate candidate who announced the IB open house format weeks earlier via take home handouts to its students and also by displaying the event on its marquis has never been declared a crime scene. Although in nearly every legal support brief or news coverage article Terri Horman was dubbed “the last person to be seen with Kyron Horman” or more recently by Desiree Young as “Kyron was last seen by someone who cared about him at 8:45 am” absolutely no witness account or Science Fair insider was known publicly to dispute such accounts.
Until now.
“Once I learned all that was going on that same day, in that same school, I did not understand why I was being told that Terri Horman was the suspect, and one other person… It never made sense to me that they knew Kyron was seen with someone else besides his stepmother after she left, that they seemed to not even consider another theory.” (*Editor’s Note*- parts of the source’s quote have been redacted as they would reveal identity of witnesses in an ongoing criminal investigation)
Electric Slide?
Sometime after Terri Horman left the school with her daughter Kiara in tow, she was captured on store video prior to Kyron’s exit from Skyline School. It is believed Kyron was last seen between 9:05 and 9:20 AM.
The following is a summation of multiple direct witness accounts, edited to protect witness identification only.
“…He must have been standing behind me because I only recall hearing him ask if the boy could help him bring some stuff in from his truck. I thought it was (edited) until he looked up at him and then he looked at Ms. Matthews for approval and she nodded her head yes in response. They walked out of the South entrance together and I do not recall seeing either of them again.
Classroom 1 Property of www.blinkoncrime.com
(Editor’s Note: It is believed that Desiree and Kaine’s comments about concern that instruction they gave him last year about listening to staff “came back to haunt them.” They have never acknowledged they were told about this witness account but a source close to www.blinkoncrime.com has confirmed they were informed but not given a witness description.
www.blinkoncrime.com has confirmed the EXIF data on the image includes the timestamp of June 4 2010 at 8:43AM PST.
Backstory OR Backdrop?
Among the peers of Kyron Horman in attendance on June 4th, were some children whose parents may have been granted access via the open house format, although documents filed with the school and LE would preclude the parents from removing them.
In fact, the mother of a chief witness in this case was arrested that very day for attempting to fill a script that did not belong to her, in a pharmacy that Terri Horman allegedly also visited that morning.
Another child whose parents lost custody due to very long histories with substance abuse and associated criminal behavior had the additional possible misfortune of closely resembling both Kaine and Terri Horman.
Non Custodial Parent Red Long Hair
It is unknown whether either parent took the opportunity to visit the school that day, but they were not included on the published list. While barred legally from removing their child from the school they could not be barred from a publicly announced invitational. There was no ID checks or sign-in sheets for non-volunteer guests.
In an unrelated twist, the child’s Father was found deceased in front of a Portland residence in April 2012. The name of the child and Kyron’s schoolmate, guardians and parents are being intentionally withheld for this article.
Sovereignty In lieu Of..
Among the many unanswered questions in Kyron’s disappearance: Why hasn’t the school been held accountable? He disappeared on their watch- with a concise standard of care duty and plan.
What really happened?
There is no dispute that Kyron had an exchange that resulted in a teacher nodding her approval that Kyron assist a man in his stated purpose- to bring things in from his truck. There is no dispute that Kyron was last seen at Skyline School. There is no dispute that both Kyron’s parents expressed concern that last year’s discipline involving instruction on being a better listener may have come back to haunt them. They said so.
What may be in dispute, for sure, is how accurate the list of attendees at the Skyline School of June 4th, 2010 is.
As an example, one witness told Editor In Chief, S. Christina Stoy that a young male former student said hello to Susan Hall and when asked by a parent who the lad was a few days later, she said she was not sure. He is NOT on the list.
When another parent subsequently asked Ms. Hall who the student was following Kyron’s disappearance to verify he was on the published list- she responded she could not remember. Ms. Hall was the Skyline Administrative staff who contacted 911 upon speaking to Terri Horman and learning Kyron was not on the bus. Hall subsequently contacted Desiree Young. She did this while the Horman’s were on their way back to the school to see if Kyron might have thought he was being picked up that day as opposed to riding the bus or some other sort of snafu.
According to the MCSO, the school records that could assist the investigation were never requested to be preserved by investigators and as a result were deleted.
So why was the Skyline School never named as a defendant in the previously pending litigation filed by Kyron’s mother Desiree Young?
The reason may lie in the recreational designation utilized on June 4th, 2010.
According to the National Policy and Legal Analysis Network (napl) it may be a simple question of whether Kyron disappeared during the “recreational” portion of the program.
Napl’s guidance to lawyer’s advising Oregon schools can be read here. Although the overall plan is relative to an obesity initiative, it would include research and advice on any school recreational or regularly scheduled event. Please tell me Cogen does not factor into this.
The following are excerpts from the report:
…”Absent special liability protection, school districts and other providers of recreational facilities have the legal duty to take reasonable precautions to prevent injury. What is reasonable is very context specific and depends on many things: most important, the nature of the harm, the difficulty of preventing it, and generally accepted standards in the management of recreational facilities…”
…” The only immunity Oregon grants to public bodies, which include school districts,2 is discretionary government immunity.3 Discretionary government immunity applies to choices “among alternative public policies by persons to whom responsibility for such policies have been delegated.”4 To fall under the protection of this doctrine, Oregon courts have said, the choice must result from the exercise of judgment and involve a public policy or nonroutine day-to-day activity.
…” In summary, Oregon immunizes schools for policy choices its officials make, but it holds schools liable for breaches of duty that occur in carrying out those policy choices…”
…” The recreational user statute should therefore provide strong protection to Oregon schools seeking to avoid liability arising from after-hours outdoor recreational programs on school grounds. Applying this statute to indoor recreational activities, however, is much riskier, although the case law does not preclude such a strategy.
Regular School Day- Changes Things
…” In Oregon, schools owe students a duty to “supervise at all times the conduct of children on school grounds and to enforce those rules and regulations necessary to their protection. . . . The standard of care imposed upon school personnel in carrying out the duty to supervise the conduct of students is that degree of care which a person of ordinary prudence, charged with comparable duties, would exercise under the same circumstances.”37
Is the issue of liability to Skyline School relegated to what time Kyron was abducted, presuming he was abducted, as is believed?
Very possibly.
As we know, the school opened early the morning of June 4th, 2010, as was displayed on the school’s marquis at least 2 weeks prior. Without particular knowledge of when the suspect responsible for Kyron’s disappearance entered the school, and under what auspice, one is left to the timeline of Kyron’s activities as juxtaposed with the start of the school day. As a regular standard of care, one could argue that begins with a student getting on the bus, if a passenger, on their regular route. What if a bus passenger is attending the “event” outside of the bus transportation? Admittedly, it seems moot inasmuch as neither one of Kyron’s parents have filed suit against the school or named them as having any negligence or liability. That said, it remains a possibility in the event Kyron is found.
There is no question Kyron was seen after 8:45AM- which is the time that a regularly scheduled bus arrives- which would ring the bell, so to speak, on the normal school day.
To be Continued:
Roid Noise And The Boys In Blue- Publishing Thursday August 8. Preview Discussion Tonight on THE DANA PRETZER SHOW.
Ellie Sanders contributed research to this report.
Jacqueline Beaufort, contributing editor
Image retouching courtesy of Klaasend
Previous Coverage:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/
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This interview makes me angry because the reporter mentioned Kyron being outside the school near a truck with potentially three men… but her question to Kaine and DY was “do you think DeDe was inside that truck? Just when a different possibility as to who may have taken Kyron is finally addressed, the reporter snuck Dede into the senario.. Three men do not = one female Dede.
Kaine Horman & Desiree Young 8/27 pt.2
Video: http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Kaine-Horman–Desiree-Young-827-pt-2-kyron-horman-missing-portland-101688128.html
-2:50
Before these quotes the Reporter said at the end of a 2-part interview something like “OH, one more question, and this is important” What do you know about Kyron being seen outside the school near a truck, at this point she stumbles, looks at her notes and says:
Reporter: Potentially one person in the truck… three people… the white truck, Terri’s truck… can you talk…
Desiree: (interrupts) Kaine’s truck (laughs)
Reporter: a little bit about that…
Reporter: Kaine’s truck. I’m sorry… What are your thoughts on that new information? Do you feel as though Dede was in that truck?
Desiree: (interrupts) It just makes me feel stronger that, that there were people helping her… that Kyron saw it all and was involved and that there were other people helping her… which is what we suspected.
Reporter: So because… but do you believe that a man was spotted? I mean again, these are witness accounts, and I don’t know how much information that you’ve been privy to about what the, what is the likeliest scenario?
Desiree: Well first of all, why would Kyron even be outside the school? Why would he even be near a truck with somebody else in it?
You know. I mean it’s significant in a huge way to the case. If the timeline played out the way that it supposedly did? That contradicts that completely.
So I mean, other than that (shrugs), that’s how significant it was to me.
Reporter: How authentic do you think that witness is? I mean how…
Desiree: (interrupts, shifts eyes to side) Very authentic.
Reporter: So it’s a credible…
Desiree: (interrupts, shifts eyes to side and down) Yep.
Reporter: …witness.
Reporter: And what exactly are they claiming that they saw?
Kaine: (audibly sighs/intakes breath, clears throat)
Kaine: Well I think, Sarah, I think to be more direct about it… I think that law enforcement needs to determine that still.
Desiree: Yeah, that part.
Kaine: We’ve been briefed on a lot of the information and the tips and the things that they’re looking into, and that was part of that bucket of tips that they’re…
Desiree: (interrupts) Yeah.
Kaine: …that they’re working their way through. Until they confirm and until they bring some of that information forward to the greater public, they’re still looking into it, so I think us commenting on that is a little bit premature.
There’s how we feel about it…
Desiree: (interrupts) Yeah.
Kaine: …and then there are the facts. And the facts…
Reporter: (interrupts) How do you feel about it?
Kaine: How do I feel about it? I feel it’s definitely significant. I don’t know how credible the sources are. I’m hoping that they are because it helps us bring more of those pieces that we talked about before, the puzzle, in to paint the bigger picture, but until they’re confirmed, I’m not going to maintain a sense of false hope that they’re valid, until they’re actually valid, until I see them and get from law enforcement that yep, this is verified, this is air tight, this is another piece that we found, and then I will believe it.
Desiree: Yeah
Yes ma’am. And to Desiree’s point- she was right, it did blow the whole timeline because it could not have been TH or her truck.
B
I’ve never seen a darn school map with a compass on it. So I’m trying to figure out what is the south entrance?
Wait a minute, this witness said they saw Kyron and SZ “walk out the south entrance of the school”? Why has Staton told us, repeatedly, that Kyron was last seen “inside the school”?
re “So in short, if DS said anything of value,
no way in the world is Rosenthal withdrawing
a $10Million suit that had just been handed it’s merit.”
Agreed. The way I see it, for c $11,000 Desiree got a depo
of James, who wasn’t even in town in the months preceding,
and a depo of DD who Rosenthal knew in advance would parrot
the 5th to 98% of depo questions, in a suit that was likely
to be dismissed with prejudice. On the otherhand, ER got c $11,000
and plenty of grandstanding facetime PR infront of the TV cameras.
Seems like a pretty unequal bargain to me.
I wonder if any of those atty fees were forwarded to SPicher for her representation needed for the dropped suit. Would not surprise me in the least. Spicher does not have a couple grand for such matters.
B
Isn’t it possible that yet another witness came forward and said they saw Kyron INSIDE the building at a later time?
If so, isn’t it further possible that if it’s only one witness, said witness is not telling the truth?
Hmmmm, just trying to consider all possibilities.
T. Ruth- as pristine as you are in researching, you are missing what I am writing. Multiple witnesses.
Kyron seen outside, next to a similar truck. To my knowledge, that directly confirms the timeline I posited.
To my knowledge, that sighting of Kyron is the last one.
B
44. mosaic says:
August 8, 2013 at 1:26 pm
Is it possible that a composite was created but not released to the public?
I can only say that the witnesses I am aware of were never asked that, so I would have to say no.
B
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Then how could the facial recognition software be beneficial?
Unless there is a suspect to load, it’s not. I do not know how or if they plan to use that mode, but If I had to guess, I might think it would be used for non-custodial parents or anyone with restraining orders from the premisis? I would have to research the legalities on that one.
B
2. T. Ruth says:
August 8, 2013 at 4:43 pm
I’ve never seen a darn school map with a compass on it. So I’m trying to figure out what is the south entrance?
Wait a minute, this witness said they saw Kyron and SZ “walk out the south entrance of the school”? Why has Staton told us, repeatedly, that Kyron was last seen “inside the school”?
*****************************************************************
use google maps with the school addy, the screen movement button at the top left shows the direction of N, S, E,W
@ Blink: Yes ma’am. And to Desiree’s point- she was right, it did blow the whole timeline because it could not have been TH or her truck.
B
Just Saying
snip
” January says:
August 8, 2013 at 4:33 pm
This interview makes me angry because the reporter mentioned Kyron being outside the school near a truck with potentially three men… but her question to Kaine and DY……”…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Great find…I remember this interview…it seems to really tie in with B’s work….and verifies that all those hammering TH knew this info early…or at least heard it,,,,..
this reporter was on it…just didn’t nail it down….
I have read correspondence where parent(s) specifically requested of LE if they knew there was a SZ, how could they be sure TH was the suspect as they were told, and support it was an isolated incident. The response (para) was that their stance had not changed.
It is beyond me how these parents did not request, and be given a town hall type forum meeting. Even from a gossip perspective- I knew when there was normal scuttlebutt when the kids were little which busy body to go to, lol. Wasn’t there any discussion where someone went- uh, if TH did not leave with him, and everyone is sure of that, how the hell do we know who took him?
B
T. Ruth
Your link post has a plan view of the school. This is a part of the historical review of the building as to when it was originally built and additions made during the years.
There is a North arrow on the plan view of the building-last page. The school faces Southwest. There is an East (NE) entrance to the parking lot on the generally East side of the building.
In looking at a plan of this type, you will find that convention puts the top of the page to the North. Any deviation will be marked with a North Arrow on the top or bottom of the drawing. Hope this helps.
some random thoughts. first off, my fingers r too big for this phone keypad, i found out that accidently hitting the v key (v=vanish) will close the browser!
about why no suspiscion of “help me bring things in”…there was an ib science fair with parent walk through as well as a talent show later in the day going on.
about desiree and another search reminds me of the harry oaks fiasco and how his dog had many hits on the area but msco didnt like harry so he was refused alot of access. at the time the gen area concensus in the comments section was “msco knows what they are doing, there is no good ole boys thing in msco etc etc.
about dede taking the 5th in the civil suit, dede showed up the first time to the gj and they never called her, she never refused to talk. she imo took the 5th in a civil suit against her friend, not against questions posed by le or da, but by desirees lawyer. then they are reporting she did again go before gj and “cooperated” if that means answered questions, she has never publicly refused to. that doesnt mean she would be inclined to talk to people in a suit that have openly cndemned her friend and are not investigators in the case
@cd.your commentary on tmh and her silence is very well written and right on targe! i wish it was running in the local press in oregon.
@vw. eagerly awaiting your take on this new information blink released and your insight on it.
@ rose do you still have the list you made of who was in charge of this investigation? it would imo be very helpful and if we are going to a new section when blink publishes “boys in blue” could you post it there?
Rose posted a very detailed who and where list the other day on the last Kyron thread.
B
i got a soft list count of adult men at the campus of 72. this includes 11 people that could be female. i think going over the staff list recently posted would say about 2 or 3 male staff were on the list. may be not significant but a teacher lou terrones is on the staff list posted here but not on the task force list as being at the school. he is described as a “learning center teacher, rescource teacher” prob absent that day or at another school.
some things about the list by task force: le identified 490 ppl present on skyline campus between 8am and noon, june 4, 2010. they took the students name off the list sent out, and did not include the names of minor children. this left a list of adult staff and visitors. this list was sent out friday i believe and as blink said had some ommissions
To my knowledge, that sighting of Kyron is the last one.
B
***********
That’s my question, is how can Staton keep saying he was last seen INSIDE the school, if multiple witnesses saw him going outside, unless someone else saw him inside after they did? Is Sheriff Staton purposefully lying to the public?
Probably didn’t make myself clear, my question, wasn’t questioning those who said they saw him outside, I am wondering if someone AFTER that time said they saw him inside somewhere. Either that or Staton has misinformed a whole lot of people.
does anyone recall where the searchers were staged, also the national guard that came in later to help search, was the sar staged at the school? i was thinking about the crime scene preservation. the first day no one knew kyron was missing till after school so the area was business of sci fair, talent show, kids got their things together and went home. next day sar, and i hope some search for physical clues at the school-but on katu press statement for june 5/6 the national guard arrived, no fbi yet, andn response to a reporters question, the stepmothers whereabouts are part of the investigation.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/95691389.html
le was suspecting tmh as early as june 5, it makes me wonder if they ignored checking the school for evidence. then on sunday msco had the students and parents in the school again for interviews. if the sar was also staged at the school, there was no way it was a crime scene to investigate
A Texas Gramdfather says:
August 8, 2013 at 6:13 pm
Thank you. I know I always put north on the top, somehow I missed he arrow.
What I am wondering is since multiple witnesses saw Kyron go outside with a man they did not recognize, and yet Staton keeps telling us Kyron disappeared inside the school. Did someone in that school, who knows who took Kyron, maybe was even outside in the truck or by the truck with the man who physically walked Kyron outside, did this person say they saw Kyron inside after that, when they really didn’t see Kyron inside at all? Lying to protect whomever took Kyron. Part of the crime, IOW another perp, an insider if you will.
Hope I’m making myself understood.
You are understood, but even I am subject to edit revision, lol. As I will be adding, Staton actually did state that Kyron was seen later than the 8:45AM that was quoted very recently by both Kaine and desiree.
B
Blink awesome piece
I dont comment often on little Kyrons threads his story is a very sad one.
Something is very wrong with this entire case- and has been from the get go
These adults all of them even those in LE seem to all be playing a bunch of head games at the detriment of Kyron and the rest of the children
If it is true that little Kyron was given the okay by a teacher to leave with an adult, then by God that teacher should know exactly who and why and for how long-
has the entire conversation been released?
Sorry but it seems very weird to me that there are several witnesses that place Kyron outside,With at least 3 males, near a white truck (which has always been described as similar to “Terri’s” although it was kaines… and terris handyman had one too)
Kyron was seen outside with 3 males and the hints seem to be that the driver was inside and was a woman, presumably Terri or a terri look alike? or is that just a presumption ?
Was Kyron in distress? was he being restrained? if not than IF this sighting was the last sighting then it seems to me that Kyron felt comfortable being outside alone with a bunch of adult strangers?…
and would he willing leave with strangers?
Did he know them?
Perhaps the white truck is a red herring what if the perps vehicle is entirely different… say Kyron or SZ walked up to the white truck thinking it to be Terri or Kaine or Terris handy man, realizing it wasnt…they moved on or was the white truck the bait for Kyron as well as the smoke screeen for any wiotnesses..
SZ says hey Kyron look its your mom…they walk up to the truck and — then they are gone?
i mean kyron and possibly 3-4 perps coincidentally by a white truck?
Again are we sure of the witnesses?
Are we sure of the times and are we sure it was Kyron they saw?
IDk anything and i am still not giving a pass to anyone not until this case is solved.
too many lingering concerns
I look forward to hearing the show blink
AJMO Peace
The podcast is loaded on the front page my friend, and very thought-provoking questions.
As sure as I can be without a corroboration from the wee man, the witnesses are positive it was Kyron.
B
Blink, are the witness quotes in your copy two different witnesses and were they in two different locations? It seems, now that I can see the arrow, that the south entrance is the front entrance, or it could be what is the south-east entrance they may have been referring to, which is way the heck across the school from where that room is. SZ would have had to walk Kyron through the halls if he went out either of those entrances. S or SE
emergency door next CR109 T.Ruth.
B
@Sam. Both Terrones, Resource teacher, and one of his paraeducators were absent that day .
best guess would be at a central office iep or spec ed hearing as both were gone. There was a special ed para sub that day iirc on the List.
—@TRuth. TY for school pics. My impression was front of school is West; emergency exit by CR 109 – North. Parking lot – South.
While pic 1 says the front is on the “South ****elevation****, on page 7 that pic correctly identifies the front entrance as the West door.
imo one Can’t rely on what a witness thinks of as “South”. Imo not a lot of staff would get door names straight.
If one went out emergency exit door by 109 on the north side, one could easily turn left & segue to the “front,” appearing to walk to a truck parked out that way, which any random person might think was South, it seems to me.
@TRuth. See p7 of yr pic url. The Front door is the West Door.
So if they hooked a left outside of that emergency exit, he’d be headed straight for a truck on the access road where LE identified on those fliers. (Since that was not a door in use, folks woukd assume they’d come out of the West (aka “witness” South) front door. So if they left 905-9:20, doesn’t SZ’s arrival & departure fit within Stenson’s “I was not blocked” window?
I cant say when they left, only when they exited the school, Rose.
B
Thanks again Texas Grandfather, I hate PDF files. They take forever to load for some reason and they are usually too big and for some reason, no matter how many times I update Adobe Reader the program stalls for me. Maybe because I’m using Firefox? I made the map smaller and now I can see the North arrow.
I get angrier and angrier when I think that LE/DA, D, K and T must have known about SZ and yet they still destroyed this family with their orchestrated and sustained pressure on Terri. Why would they do this? Goes back to Blink’s profile and much other discussion about the possibility that SZ is a prominent or powerful individual who needs to be protected, and everybody is on board with this. the school too has been protected with a veritable shroud of secrecy. if it was a coverup of an important individual it would mean they know who it is, and I can’t bring myself to believe that. but it’s either a coverup of massive incompetence or of someone.
I may have already asked this on the other thread, but I recall a video of Kaine Horman with an officer looking at the tip binders inside the “war room”. Does anyone know if the family KH, DY and TY any or all of them were given permission by LE to read those tips? If so, is that something that would normally be allowed in an investigation.
Thinking about the statement I posted from Staton the other day, that all the information they would receive on this case would come from the family, solely.
I’m pretty sure that came out wrong, about Blink’s profile and prominent person needing to be protected. Blink didn’t say that at all, about protecting. it all sounded great in my mind though. whatever the reason, there is a huge coverup here and my question is of what. Why didn’t they tell the truth in the first place.
Blink,
I’m worried about the female teacher who has been identified in this article. Was she supportive of her name and the article information attached to her being published?
wpg- I heart u, and respect you equally as much. I know we may not see eye to eye in this case and you have been a reader and first rate contributor since day one so the last thing I want to do is offend you.
It is entirely fine for us to agree to disagree, but I would like you to know that this piece is 18 months in the making, and I have postponed it more than once in an effort to grease wheels that should be turning without my hands on my hips.
I don’t believe Kyron’s interests are served by keeping silent things that LE had the serious obligation to alert in the first place. I have not spoken to her personally, and it is my understanding that she will not comment.
How else do we juggle the need to advocate, alert others, and with much hope- find Kyron? Fwiw, this was my litmus test here.
B
I am deeply ashamed not to just re-read, re-think, & summarize in a paragr my prior postings here on investigators. But, it’s taken me a LONG time to find them (flipping back all those pages). At a cursory glance, my opinion was O’Donnell was lead because he’d been 5 years on the mutidisciplinary County-wide Child Abuse Units with ADAs Moawad & Woods whose case this was. The oddity was why Kyron’s case was parked in the CAU as the investigatory team (along with East County Major Crimes) from the git go.
Info on Investigators,
from p 43 of the previous thread, until it changes below——
(CAU is a multidisciplinary child abuse unit comprised of ADAs and LE)
“Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 10:24 am
…. Woods (was) the Senior DA in charge of the CAU, Moawad (the fulltime Kyron ADA) a DDA in the CAU, O’Donnell a 5 year detective member of the CAU & prominant lead Detective in Horman case.”
(Note to Houze):
Your depos do not need to focus on RS & the mfh. That’s a red herring. They need to focus on why these 3 CAU personnel (Woods, Moawad, O’Donnell) were heavily involved in, if not leading, the investigation from 6-/5 on and the decisions they made, focusing the investigation on the family & TMH. to the exclusion of others.
Why were they (the Child Abuse Unit) in charge of the investigation? What discussions did they have with each other? Your probable cause to depo them? Their overtime records.
I had thought O’Donnell was loaned to this case from CAU or got a promotion or reassignment to Homicide.
But, Based on Woods’ & Moawad’s involvement, imo the investigation of Horman was led at line level by CAU from 6/5 ff
until Sept 15 (“Task Force”). Idk what the fbi/dea role was, but they were not lead.
What triggered Staton & Shrunk assigning CAU personnel (at a minimum O’Donnell) as leads from June-Sept?
Speculation:
the Previous complaint re Terri? (dui, James)
the interview Eval of Porter re Terri (CAU always believes the teacher)
Complaints & beliefs of Youngs?
Stupidity?
Here’s the investigatory impact:
–no stranger abduction alert
–no school witness interviews til Sunday
–no securing & processing crime scene
–telling witnesses no cause to worry, it’s a family thing, we’re looking at Terri
(even if they didn’t tell witnesses that, to the extent the questions themselves focused of Terri & the quality of her interactions with kids & others would do that)
–telling parents their kids were safe”
Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 10:41 am
I forgot in my 10:24 am post:
Is it any surprise then given the at least 3 CAU personnel involved from June 4 or 5 in the investigation that this RO landed in the Chambers of a Judge formerly a DDA in the CAU?
I think Woods has been the CAU Supv a long time.
If so, she was likely the Judge’s Supervisor on his CA cases at one time.
Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 11:31 am
p8 http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/docs/A148574.pdf
In 1995 Meisenheimer was callec a Sen Dep DA (now Woods title) testifying on matters of child porn
also in 95, a cite he was a CAU DDA: http://www (dit) highbeam.com/doc/1P2-23335872.html
Woods is captioned in the (nonappearing pic) on p122 of the
original CAU in the 90s
http://books.google.com/books?id=KkvHsnIIb90C&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=1995+charlene+woods+multnomah+da&source=bl&ots=Rq3FCZ6Ls7&sig=UiKpbrbuELfIgyjapzP43AypaqY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ih1PUbeiE6PE4AOF-IDABw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBQ
—–
OR atty since 1984
—–
Wood listed on the CA Team testifying in 1997 http://arcweb.sos.state.or (dot) us/pages/records/legislative/legislativeminutes/1997/house/judiciary_sub_familylaw/hjudfl213.html ”
” Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 5:16 pm
@Blink. Oregon’s County-based “multidisciplinary teams” — DA, LE, cpsd hotline workers in Portland’s case.
http://www.oregon.gov/dhs/children/pages/abuse/cps/main.aspx#mdt Woods, Moawad, O’Donnell at least online belonged to this team. They investigate under a statute. idk Oregon’s statute, but IF they had the lead on Kyron’s
case from June 4 to the Task Force, it would have to fit the OR child abuse & neglect statute. Meaning their Supervisors decided very early on the abductor was a known parent or someone with legal custody who represented a threat to the child’s welfare under the statute.
The CAU detectives & DAs have no experience, unless they got it beforehand in another assignment, in nonparent abductions.
So with these 3 assigned, and O’Donnell lead detective, was it Staton or Shrunk who decided the weekend of June 5 this was a parental kidnapping that fit the OR statute & got Charlene Woods’ unit in on this personnelwise?”
Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 11:12 pm
down in this Jan 2009 Newsletter from Sheriff Skipper we see he formed the Cold Case Unit & put the Captn in charge of Investigations Monte Reiser to staff it:
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs011/1102356663680/archive/1102361937905.html
Post-Eliot, he’s still a Captn but now in charge of civil process service.”
Rose says:
March 25, 2013 at 7:34 am
the article with Desiree’s email story. Blink has a different count.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/day_of_kyron_hormans_disappear.html
Also, Kaine’s “how I met Terri” story.
—–
One of Eliott’s 2 whistlebowing subjects Monte Reiser, then the chief of Investigations for mcso, appears all through the summer of 2010 as the media investigator briefer often standing in front of or side by side with Kaine. So idk why I thought it was the lead detective O’Donnell who briefed Kaine about the mfh & supplied the info for Kaine’s civil pleadings in 2010.
Here Reiser is with Kaine the day after the Sting:
http://www.allvoices.com/pictures/66547986-captain-monte-reiser-conducts-a-news-conference-regarding-the-kyron-horman-case-while-kyron
“Intercept” Monte Reiser again
http://www3.multco.us/budgetwebFY09All/PDF/60066C-MINT.pdf
See right side of this chart.
http://www.mcso.us/public/forms/org/0912.pdf
By Oct 10 Lt Walls had taken over the Investigation from Reisor as he testified on Kyron’s case to commissioners. Reiser at some point became Captn of River Patrol, Brett Elliot’s old exile or punishment site, Elliott claimed. Now Reiser is in charge of civil process serving. Can it get worse? Except he still has his rank & pay.
Imo Houze subpoenaed O’Donnell, but in terms of who
planned the Sting and who collaborated in Kaine’s marital exit, it was more likely Monte.
Rose says:
March 25, 2013 at 5:06 pm
@grasshopper. looking back to my post of 3/23, @11:21, I see I suvgested at Task Force formation 9/15/10 Lt Walls was the tippy top (Investigations), Sgt Krafve the Sgt Det (Cold Cases), and O’Donnell the full-time Det.
When did Herron replace O’Donnell? At Task Force formation? Apparently that was when Walls replaced Reiser.
So in mid-Sept 2010 a new team was in place. Whither the old theories?
Rose says:
March 25, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Herron was on the job, directing a search, 1/30/11
http://m.topix.com/forum/city/portland-or-west-portland/T59KDA2H9OTRC8OTP
bad doings in the punkin’ patch 11/11/11. so how fulltime was Herron on Kyron in 2011, and is he a Sauvie territoryinvestigator?
http://www.kgw.com/news/Victim-beaten-cut-in-Sauvie-Island-robbery-133697663.html
is this the Union Presidency?
http://www.zoominfo.com/#!search/profile/person?personId=981645107&targetid=profile
his picture
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/search_for_kyron_horman_resume.html
“very specific reasons” for search he says
per Desiree, she’d waited awhile for it
imo his are not the “fresh eyes” needed.
Rose says:
March 25, 2013 at 6:06 pm
in 3/09, Herron was the Union (?) VP & a river patrol deputy – (not a detective? maybe worked under Eliott when he was head of river patrol?)
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/group_fights_sheriff_cuts.html
way down…http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/12/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s_2.html Herron was search coordinator on the Task Force.
8/17/12 Herron handles other (fresh) murders
http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Body-found-floating-near-Steel-Bridge-IDed/CmUBHh5TGkyJHOJmA5wExg.cspx
union repr
http://web.multco.us/sites/default/files/employee-labor-relations/documents/union_representatives.pdf
do they get the ot positions? (tongue in cheek)
http://www.mylife.com/c-1118525653 single?
5/8/11 updated July 12
He may have been search coordinator for Kyron on the Task Force, but by May he was functionally Deputy in charge of River Patrol with a busy summer ahead
http://www.opb.org/artsandlife/article/willamette-river-sees-calm-first-day-boating-season/
http://www.portlandtribune.net/news/story.php?story_id=124164479826420400
In May 2009 he’s been a long time River Patrol Deputy
Sorry, I see nothing in his record from the lead up to 09 thru 2011 qualifying him to investigate child abduction nor homicide. Assignment seems purely political
what gives with mcso?
no wonder Desiree was pissed.?
Rose says:
March 25, 2013 at 6:15 pm
2006 river patrol
http://portlandtribune.com/component/content/article?id=99635
2007 river patrol
http://thetribonline.net/news/story_2nd.php?story_id=117780017006951400
2006 an old Reisor colleague:
http://web.multco.us/document/22350/download
“river safety including: Mark Herron and Monte Reiser from the County Sheriff’s Office…”
So Kyron’s investigative supv of summer 2010 M Reisor hands off to Krafve in 9/10, but his (at least 4-yr) river patrol mate is moved into the (cover someone’s A..) detective position
—–
“Rose says: March 25, 2013 at 7:57 pm
@erose. in vague outlines Reisor (an Elliott target) came from River patrol in summer 2010 to supervise (at the Lt level) this
investigation (and often met the press w/bios, and probably gave Kaine his sting/RO goods). when the Task Force was formed in the Fall, Reisor returned to Riverland (now Civil Process or that too is over both), tho Elliott was also on river patrol at some time after.
As to Herron, by the task force’s formation, though probably before, Reisor’s longtime (at least since 2005) River Patrol comrade in arms Herron was leading the physical search for Kyron – certainly Heron was leading search & rescue in the Task Force period working under Krafve (with Reisor back on River Patrol).
now Herron is the full time Kyron detective under the full-time Sgt Det Supv Krafve, with (is it 5?) part time Detecs per budget” in the Detective Unit (spelling corrected & editing for sense)
http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/11/27/kyron-horman-missing-civil-suit-against-terri-horman-delayed-and-sealed/comment-page-44/#comments
” Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 11:42 am
See 5/12/11 Interrogation – Day 2 at 5:33 by kppr
http://m.catlin.edu/taxonomy/term/388/all?page=18
On this date Mr Herron is a line level Deputy assigned to River Patrol
working under the supervision of Brett Elliott. He also is and
had been “a” SAR Coordinator. This student (high school?) describes
Herron orienting him to interview techniques. This was subsequent to
Herron interviewing a suspected burglar. In that case he went to the burgar’s (home?),
talked him into coming back to the Office with him to be interviewed (no Miranda warning),
and conducted the interview alone without a colleague witness.
@Grasshopper. does your source known when after 5/12/11 Deputy MH was made a Detective
& assigned to Kyron’s case.
@ budget researchers. After the Task Force concluded in mid-2011, is there any budget testimony or evidence
as to how many full & part-time Detectives were assigned to this investigation?
I am thinking the current case “investigators” are those working out of the DA’s Office (wasn’t one a retired PPB?). Their purpose imo would be to obtain evidence for grand jury presentation re the “focus” of the DA’s investigation.”
ditto url
Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 12:36 pm
http://www.katu.com/news/local/121985859.html?m=y&smobile=y
Sgt Krafve is “the lead detective” on the dissolving Task Force. 5/11
now supervises the Detectives Unit, which has 10 Detectives and includes subunits such as Human Trafficking & Cold Cases
http://www.mcso.us/public/detectives.htm
I doubt with this Admin work load he is personally “detecting” on Kyron’s case.
Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 1:14 pm
Ridiculously, Answering myself as to when Herron changed jobs.
Herron had been promoted from a River Patrol Deputy to a Detective in the Detectives Unit of Investigations by 08/12
http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Body-found-floating-near-Steel-Bridge-IDed/CmUBHh5TGkyJHOJmA5wExg.cspx
T. Ruth says:
March 27, 2013 at 1:46 pm
@Rose
Catching up here. Are you trying to determine who shared the information with Kaine Horman? If so, I think we need to start here:
**Detectives with the Multnomah County Major Crimes Team** shared the landscaper’s account with Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, last weekend, prompting him to leave the house June 26 with the couple’s 19-month-old daughter.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html
They are, I think, actually known also as the East Multnomah County Major Crimes Team:
Kyron Horman Press Conference
Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 2:00 P.M.
The Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office continues to be the lead agency as we continue our partnership with the **East** Multnomah County Major Crimes Team.
This team was created in 1996 and has over a 90% successful prosecution rate for major criminal investigations.
Having worked with the Major Crimes Team in the past I can tell you that it’s comprised of some of Multnomah County’s most well respected, skilled and dedicated detectives.
These detectives are selected for their skill level and ability to solve crimes and work well within a detective team.
http://www.flashalertnewswire.net/images/news/2010-07/1276/37069/Sheriff_office_HormanPres%E2%80%8Bs072710.pdf (This link no longer works, but it WAS there on the MCSO’s flashalert page)
I believe that this is why MCSO was able to say “information did not come from us”. It came from someone on the above team of investigators. I tried long ago to see if I could find out who made up the team, I only came up with two names: Don Sahota & Larry Foulke, both of whom are (or were at the time) detectives with Gresham PD.
The information, IMO came from someone(s) on that team. My gut feeling, because of MCSO’s denial is that it was not one of the MCSO detectives.
“Given the media coverage over the past long weekend, the Multnomah County Major Crimes Team could no longer stand by its assertion in my affidavit of July 2 that unsealing the sealed matters before you would undermine our on-going criminal investigation,” he wrote.
http://www.katu.com/news/98051309.html ”
ditto url
same page:
” Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 3:18 pm
Clearly when the Task Force formed 9/15/10, Reisor/O’Donnell stepped back and Lt Walls and Sgt Krafve, with a SAR Coord Deputy Herron (now Det.) in the mix, stepped up.
. Preexisting close colleagial relationships like Reisor/Herron must exist tho.
The public face of the investigation seems not to have changed since 09/10 and resides in the Mcso Det. Unit.”
same pg:
:Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 3:53 pm
@TRUth.
Both Krafve of mcso and Bob Peterson of Gresham were on the East County Major Crimes team working together back to 2004:
“The case was assigned to Keith Krafve of the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and Bob Peterson of Gresham Police, both with the interagency East County Major Crimes Team. Peterson was a longtime homicide sleuth. Krafve was a two-year detective on his first murder case.”
an Oregon Bar investigator called the investigation botched from the start by police
http://www.wweek.com/portland/m/article-2761-mobile.html#_Article
my memory is Peterson was with Krafve on Kyron in 2010
Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 3:56 pm
well, we know Bob Peterson of Gresham was on E Cty Crime team on Kyron as testimony by Yohe puts him
on it in Jan 2012 & he was on it in 2004.
Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 4:31 pm
I havent logged in, but google blurb says he’s a former Lead Detective on the East Mult Cty Major Crimes Team
http://m.facebook.com/pages/Servo-Investigations/178411582224455?id=178411582224455&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpages%2FServo-Investigations%2F178411582224455&_rdr ”
” Rose says:
March 28, 2013 at 8:59 am
the case was buried when it was removed from the E County Major Crimes Team on 9/15/10 & given to the Task Force which was essentially the mcso Detective Unit & msco associates like a sar coordinator. That decision must have been made in August, imo at DA’ direction. probably due to the Sting & RO fiascos.
@erose. imo Meisenheimer was brought into this informally by DA prior to Sting as part of that packaged weekend. (see a bit of his history below). They’d both once supervised Rackner, & imo naturally thought of her. At that point anyone briefing Kaine could’ve passed on the name. Now Meisenheimer would be interesting to get under subpoena
& depo about Sting era consultations prior to the Ex Parte orders.
Before Kitzhaber appointed him, Meisenheimer was a Senior Dep DA (now Rees’ job).
His work as a Senior Deputy DA stretches back from 1995 at least to 1988:
http://books.google.com/books?id=o50w_isIZ-EC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=meisenheimer+portland+senior+deputy+da&source=bl&ots=BrezsEt7Qq&sig=IchNYzFYganI3FcbFysY0DPEFyA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9PlTUcvdIJS24AOBx4CgDg&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCA This article memtions at one time he headed the DA’s Child Abuse team.
Meisenheimer’s daughter was employed 6 months in 2008 in the DA’s Office.
——-
Interesting story about a Deputy DA who in a murder trial was
second chaired by Meisenheimer, & putting the wrong murderers
away, and how McIntyre undid it
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-09-01/magazine/tm-39549_1_jim-mcintyre/12
McIntyre on Kyron
http://www.examiner.com/article/kyron-horman-investigation-gains-insight-from-a-former-portland-district-attorney
Rose says:
March 28, 2013 at 10:50 am
Mike Schults was a Lt.
He was mcso liaison with Hormans on June 9
http://www.kgw.com/news/Horman-family-statement-on-search-for-Kyron-95991424.html
In 2007 he was also a Lt.
Of River Patrol.
http://home.comcast.net/~melauri/minutes.htm
Who sent Kyron’s investigation to River Patrol (Reisor et al) early on?
Crime happened on PPS property & PPB had the jurisdiction there.”
—-
” Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 3:03 am
Staton says here 2 trial level attorneys Moawad & Demer were brought in (from the get go per billing) to do computer analyses, as was Woods the Sen Dep DA of the Child Abuse Unit. At this time iirc Moawad was on the CAU.
Now Moawad & Demer don’t show anywhere on googling as having computer expertise educationally or experientially. (Demer looks seasoned & a fine public servant on theft, burglary, embezzlement etc)
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/district_attorney_and_sheriff.html
So what’s this about computer analysis by a
a theater major
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/heidi-moawad/7/a02/6b8?_mSplash=1&sessionid=OLLB4_H0-M_bkDyfbCzX
reading emails?
Background on Portland Child Abuse Unit:
http://books.google.com/books?id=KkvHsnIIb90C&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=charlene+woods+child+abuse&source=bl&ots=Rq3FCW5OB8&sig=Rflojqk3gEqzC-Pa0uaZaRRStBc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-aVOUei1BOqN0QG1noGgBw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwADgK
DAs (long time = Woods), detectives & CPSD Intake are all in the same location.
Personally, professionally, I don’t like that. It blurs professional roles & appropriate professional distance.
A CPSD worker heading over to the DA’s is jmpressed to have one’s facts nailed.
If a CPSD worker calls in detective for a home visit, a Detective (or a gun) better be needed.
imo DAs and Detectives need to rub shoulders with their professional
peers, so they don’t go subjective.
Anyway, as to this crime, I’m reminded long ago I shared CPSD Court cases represented by 3 US attorneys of varying capabilities (2 outstanding). Not a one of the 3 fine Child Abuse & Neglect US Attorneys (or me or my cpsd peers) would have the foggiest how to investigate a stranger kidnapping or a school abduction. So why did Shrunk/Staton assign Wood & Moawad to do ANY kind of investigation, at their hourly rates, from June on? It was inevitable imo they’d settle on a family member to the exclusion of a stranger abduction. I can hear the CAU’s experienced detectives grilling Kaine & Terri now. Who’ll throw the other overboard first?”
—
Erose identified on url p 43 that Stahancyk & Rackner split up in 2005. Love to know date of Wagner’s defense.
Info on Investigators,
from this url, until it changes below——
(CAU is a multidisciplinary child abuse unit comprised of ADAs and LE?
“Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 10:24 am
…. Woods (was) the Senior DA in charge of the CAU, Moawad (the fulltime Kyron ADA) a DDA in the CAU, O’Donnell a 5 year detective member of the CAU & prominant lead Detective in Horman case.”
(Note to Houze):
Your depos do not need to focus on RS & the mfh. That’s a red herring. They need to focus on why these 3 CAU personnel (Woods, Moawad, O’Donnell) were heavily involved in, if not leading, the investigation from 6-/5 on and the decisions they made, focusing the investigation on the family & TMH. to the exclusion of others.
Why were they (the Child Abuse Unit) in charge of the investigation? What discussions did they have with each other? Your probable cause to depo them? Their overtime records.
I had thought O’Donnell was loaned to this case from CAU or got a promotion or reassignment to Homicide.
But, Based on Woods’ & Moawad’s involvement, imo the investigation of Horman was led at line level by CAU from 6/5 ff
until Sept 15 (“Task Force”). Idk what the fbi/dea role was, but they were not lead.
What triggered Staton & Shrunk assigning CAU personnel (at a minimum O’Donnell) as leads from June-Sept?
Speculation:
the Previous complaint re Terri? (dui, James)
the interview Eval of Porter re Terri (CAU always believes the teacher)
Complaints & beliefs of Youngs?
Stupidity?
Here’s the investigatory impact:
–no stranger abduction alert
–no school witness interviews til Sunday
–no securing & processing crime scene
–telling witnesses no cause to worry, it’s a family thing, we’re looking at Terri
(even if they didn’t tell witnesses that, to the extent the questions themselves focused of Terri & the quality of her interactions with kids & others would do that)
–telling parents their kids were safe”
Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 10:41 am
I forgot in my 10:24 am post:
Is it any surprise then given the at least 3 CAU personnel involved from June 4 or 5 in the investigation that this RO landed in the Chambers of a Judge formerly a DDA in the CAU?
I think Woods has been the CAU Supv a long time.
If so, she was likely the Judge’s Supervisor on his CA cases at one time.
Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 11:31 am
p8 http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/docs/A148574.pdf
In 1995 Meisenheimer was callec a Sen Dep DA (now Woods title) testifying on matters of child porn
also in 95, a cite he was a CAU DDA: http://www (dit) highbeam.com/doc/1P2-23335872.html
Woods is captioned in the (nonappearing pic) on p122 of the
original CAU in the 90s
http://books.google.com/books?id=KkvHsnIIb90C&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=1995+charlene+woods+multnomah+da&source=bl&ots=Rq3FCZ6Ls7&sig=UiKpbrbuELfIgyjapzP43AypaqY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ih1PUbeiE6PE4AOF-IDABw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBQ
—–
OR atty since 1984
—–
Wood listed on the CA Team testifying in 1997 http://arcweb.sos.state.or (dot) us/pages/records/legislative/legislativeminutes/1997/house/judiciary_sub_familylaw/hjudfl213.html ”
” Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 5:16 pm
@Blink. Oregon’s County-based “multidisciplinary teams” — DA, LE, cpsd hotline workers in Portland’s case.
http://www.oregon.gov/dhs/children/pages/abuse/cps/main.aspx#mdt Woods, Moawad, O’Donnell at least online belonged to this team. They investigate under a statute. idk Oregon’s statute, but IF they had the lead on Kyron’s
case from June 4 to the Task Force, it would have to fit the OR child abuse & neglect statute. Meaning their Supervisors decided very early on the abductor was a known parent or someone with legal custody who represented a threat to the child’s welfare under the statute.
The CAU detectives & DAs have no experience, unless they got it beforehand in another assignment, in nonparent abductions.
So with these 3 assigned, and O’Donnell lead detective, was it Staton or Shrunk who decided the weekend of June 5 this was a parental kidnapping that fit the OR statute & got Charlene Woods’ unit in on this personnelwise?”
Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 11:12 pm
down in this Jan 2009 Newsletter from Sheriff Skipper we see he formed the Cold Case Unit & put the Captn in charge of Investigations Monte Reiser to staff it:
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs011/1102356663680/archive/1102361937905.html
Post-Eliot, he’s still a Captn but now in charge of civil process service.”
Rose says:
March 25, 2013 at 7:34 am
the article with Desiree’s email story. Blink has a different count.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/day_of_kyron_hormans_disappear.html
Also, Kaine’s “how I met Terri” story.
—–
One of Eliott’s 2 whistlebowing subjects Monte Reiser, then the chief of Investigations for mcso, appears all through the summer of 2010 as the media investigator briefer often standing in front of or side by side with Kaine. So idk why I thought it was the lead detective O’Donnell who briefed Kaine about the mfh & supplied the info for Kaine’s civil pleadings in 2010.
Here Reiser is with Kaine the day after the Sting:
http://www.allvoices.com/pictures/66547986-captain-monte-reiser-conducts-a-news-conference-regarding-the-kyron-horman-case-while-kyron
“Intercept” Monte Reiser again
http://www3.multco.us/budgetwebFY09All/PDF/60066C-MINT.pdf
See right side of this chart.
http://www.mcso.us/public/forms/org/0912.pdf
By Oct 10 Lt Walls had taken over the Investigation from Reisor as he testified on Kyron’s case to commissioners. Reiser at some point became Captn of River Patrol, Brett Elliot’s old exile or punishment site, Elliott claimed. Now Reiser is in charge of civil process serving. Can it get worse? Except he still has his rank & pay.
Imo Houze subpoenaed O’Donnell, but in terms of who
planned the Sting and who collaborated in Kaine’s marital exit, it was more likely Monte.
Rose says:
March 25, 2013 at 5:06 pm
@grasshopper. looking back to my post of 3/23, @11:21, I see I suvgested at Task Force formation 9/15/10 Lt Walls was the tippy top (Investigations), Sgt Krafve the Sgt Det (Cold Cases), and O’Donnell the full-time Det.
When did Herron replace O’Donnell? At Task Force formation? Apparently that was when Walls replaced Reiser.
So in mid-Sept 2010 a new team was in place. Whither the old theories?
Rose says:
March 25, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Herron was on the job, directing a search, 1/30/11
http://m.topix.com/forum/city/portland-or-west-portland/T59KDA2H9OTRC8OTP
bad doings in the punkin’ patch 11/11/11. so how fulltime was Herron on Kyron in 2011, and is he a Sauvie territoryinvestigator?
http://www.kgw.com/news/Victim-beaten-cut-in-Sauvie-Island-robbery-133697663.html
is this the Union Presidency?
http://www.zoominfo.com/#!search/profile/person?personId=981645107&targetid=profile
his picture
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/search_for_kyron_horman_resume.html
“very specific reasons” for search he says
per Desiree, she’d waited awhile for it
imo his are not the “fresh eyes” needed.
Rose says:
March 25, 2013 at 6:06 pm
in 3/09, Herron was the Union (?) VP & a river patrol deputy – (not a detective? maybe worked under Eliott when he was head of river patrol?)
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/group_fights_sheriff_cuts.html
way down…http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/12/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s_2.html Herron was search coordinator on the Task Force.
8/17/12 Herron handles other (fresh) murders
http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Body-found-floating-near-Steel-Bridge-IDed/CmUBHh5TGkyJHOJmA5wExg.cspx
union repr
http://web.multco.us/sites/default/files/employee-labor-relations/documents/union_representatives.pdf
do they get the ot positions? (tongue in cheek)
http://www.mylife.com/c-1118525653 single?
5/8/11 updated July 12
He may have been search coordinator for Kyron on the Task Force, but by May he was functionally Deputy in charge of River Patrol with a busy summer ahead
http://www.opb.org/artsandlife/article/willamette-river-sees-calm-first-day-boating-season/
http://www.portlandtribune.net/news/story.php?story_id=124164479826420400
In May 2009 he’s been a long time River Patrol Deputy
Sorry, I see nothing in his record from the lead up to 09 thru 2011 qualifying him to investigate child abduction nor homicide. Assignment seems purely political
what gives with mcso?
no wonder Desiree was pissed.?
Rose says:
March 25, 2013 at 6:15 pm
2006 river patrol
http://portlandtribune.com/component/content/article?id=99635
2007 river patrol
http://thetribonline.net/news/story_2nd.php?story_id=117780017006951400
2006 an old Reisor colleague:
http://web.multco.us/document/22350/download
“river safety including: Mark Herron and Monte Reiser from the County Sheriff’s Office…”
So Kyron’s investigative supv of summer 2010 M Reisor hands off to Krafve in 9/10, but his (at least 4-yr) river patrol mate is moved into the (cover someone’s A..) detective position
—–
“Rose says: March 25, 2013 at 7:57 pm
@erose. in vague outlines Reisor (an Elliott target) came from River patrol in summer 2010 to supervise (at the Lt level) this
investigation (and often met the press w/bios, and probably gave Kaine his sting/RO goods). when the Task Force was formed in the Fall, Reisor returned to Riverland (now Civil Process or that too is over both), tho Elliott was also on river patrol at some time after.
As to Herron, by the task force’s formation, though probably before, Reisor’s longtime (at least since 2005) River Patrol comrade in arms Herron was leading the physical search for Kyron – certainly Heron was leading search & rescue in the Task Force period working under Krafve (with Reisor back on River Patrol).
now Herron is the full time Kyron detective under the full-time Sgt Det Supv Krafve, with (is it 5?) part time Detecs per budget” in the Detective Unit (spelling corrected & editing for sense)
http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/11/27/kyron-horman-missing-civil-suit-against-terri-horman-delayed-and-sealed/comment-page-44/#comments
” Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 11:42 am
See 5/12/11 Interrogation – Day 2 at 5:33 by kppr
http://m.catlin.edu/taxonomy/term/388/all?page=18
On this date Mr Herron is a line level Deputy assigned to River Patrol
working under the supervision of Brett Elliott. He also is and
had been “a” SAR Coordinator. This student (high school?) describes
Herron orienting him to interview techniques. This was subsequent to
Herron interviewing a suspected burglar. In that case he went to the burgar’s (home?),
talked him into coming back to the Office with him to be interviewed (no Miranda warning),
and conducted the interview alone without a colleague witness.
@Grasshopper. does your source known when after 5/12/11 Deputy MH was made a Detective
& assigned to Kyron’s case.
@ budget researchers. After the Task Force concluded in mid-2011, is there any budget testimony or evidence
as to how many full & part-time Detectives were assigned to this investigation?
I am thinking the current case “investigators” are those working out of the DA’s Office (wasn’t one a retired PPB?). Their purpose imo would be to obtain evidence for grand jury presentation re the “focus” of the DA’s investigation.”
ditto url
Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 12:36 pm
http://www.katu.com/news/local/121985859.html?m=y&smobile=y
Sgt Krafve is “the lead detective” on the dissolving Task Force. 5/11
now supervises the Detectives Unit, which has 10 Detectives and includes subunits such as Human Trafficking & Cold Cases
http://www.mcso.us/public/detectives.htm
I doubt with this Admin work load he is personally “detecting” on Kyron’s case.
Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 1:14 pm
Ridiculously, Answering myself as to when Herron changed jobs.
Herron had been promoted from a River Patrol Deputy to a Detective in the Detectives Unit of Investigations by 08/12
http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Body-found-floating-near-Steel-Bridge-IDed/CmUBHh5TGkyJHOJmA5wExg.cspx
T. Ruth says: March 27, 2013 at 1:46 pm
@Rose Catching up here. Are you trying to determine who shared the information with Kaine Horman? If so, I think we need to start here:
**Detectives with the Multnomah County Major Crimes Team** shared the landscaper’s account with Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, last weekend, prompting him to leave the house June 26 with the couple’s 19-month-old daughter.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html
They are, I think, actually known also as the East Multnomah County Major Crimes Team:
Kyron Horman Press Conference
Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 2:00 P.M.
The Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office continues to be the lead agency as we continue our partnership with the **East** Multnomah County Major Crimes Team.
This team was created in 1996 and has over a 90% successful prosecution rate for major criminal investigations.
Having worked with the Major Crimes Team in the past I can tell you that it’s comprised of some of Multnomah County’s most well respected, skilled and dedicated detectives.
These detectives are selected for their skill level and ability to solve crimes and work well within a detective team.
http://www.flashalertnewswire.net/images/news/2010-07/1276/37069/Sheriff_office_HormanPres%E2%80%8Bs072710.pdf (This link no longer works, but it WAS there on the MCSO’s flashalert page)
I believe that this is why MCSO was able to say “information did not come from us”. It came from someone on the above team of investigators. I tried long ago to see if I could find out who made up the team, I only came up with two names: Don Sahota & Larry Foulke, both of whom are (or were at the time) detectives with Gresham PD.
The information, IMO came from someone(s) on that team. My gut feeling, because of MCSO’s denial is that it was not one of the MCSO detectives.
“Given the media coverage over the past long weekend, the Multnomah County Major Crimes Team could no longer stand by its assertion in my affidavit of July 2 that unsealing the sealed matters before you would undermine our on-going criminal investigation,” he wrote.
http://www.katu.com/news/98051309.html ”
ditto url same page:
” Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 3:18 pm
Clearly when the Task Force formed 9/15/10, Reisor/O’Donnell stepped back and Lt Walls and Sgt Krafve, with a SAR Coord Deputy Herron (now Det.) in the mix, stepped up.
. Preexisting close colleagial relationships like Reisor/Herron must exist tho.
The public face of the investigation seems not to have changed since 09/10 and resides in the Mcso Det. Unit.”
same pg:
:Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 3:53 pm
@TRUth.
Both Krafve of mcso and Bob Peterson of Gresham were on the East County Major Crimes team working together back to 2004:
“The case was assigned to Keith Krafve of the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and Bob Peterson of Gresham Police, both with the interagency East County Major Crimes Team. Peterson was a longtime homicide sleuth. Krafve was a two-year detective on his first murder case.”
an Oregon Bar investigator called the investigation botched from the start by police
http://www.wweek.com/portland/m/article-2761-mobile.html#_Article
my memory is Peterson was with Krafve on Kyron in 2010
Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 3:56 pm
well, we know Bob Peterson of Gresham was on E Cty Crime team on Kyron as testimony by Yohe puts him
on it in Jan 2012 & he was on it in 2004.
Rose says:
March 27, 2013 at 4:31 pm
I havent logged in, but google blurb says he’s a former Lead Detective on the East Mult Cty Major Crimes Team
http://m.facebook.com/pages/Servo-Investigations/178411582224455?id=178411582224455&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpages%2FServo-Investigations%2F178411582224455&_rdr ”
” Rose says:
March 28, 2013 at 8:59 am
the case was buried when it was removed from the E County Major Crimes Team on 9/15/10 & given to the Task Force which was essentially the mcso Detective Unit & msco associates like a sar coordinator. That decision must have been made in August, imo at DA’ direction. probably due to the Sting & RO fiascos.
@erose. imo Meisenheimer was brought into this informally by DA prior to Sting as part of that packaged weekend. (see a bit of his history below). They’d both once supervised Rackner, & imo naturally thought of her. At that point anyone briefing Kaine could’ve passed on the name. Now Meisenheimer would be interesting to get under subpoena
& depo about Sting era consultations prior to the Ex Parte orders.
Before Kitzhaber appointed him, Meisenheimer was a Senior Dep DA (now Rees’ job).
His work as a Senior Deputy DA stretches back from 1995 at least to 1988:
http://books.google.com/books?id=o50w_isIZ-EC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=meisenheimer+portland+senior+deputy+da&source=bl&ots=BrezsEt7Qq&sig=IchNYzFYganI3FcbFysY0DPEFyA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9PlTUcvdIJS24AOBx4CgDg&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCA This article memtions at one time he headed the DA’s Child Abuse team.
Meisenheimer’s daughter was employed 6 months in 2008 in the DA’s Office.
——-
Interesting story about a Deputy DA who in a murder trial was
second chaired by Meisenheimer, & putting the wrong murderers
away, and how McIntyre undid it
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-09-01/magazine/tm-39549_1_jim-mcintyre/12
McIntyre on Kyron
http://www.examiner.com/article/kyron-horman-investigation-gains-insight-from-a-former-portland-district-attorney
Rose says:
March 28, 2013 at 10:50 am Mike Schults was a Lt.
He was mcso liaison with Hormans on June 9
http://www.kgw.com/news/Horman-family-statement-on-search-for-Kyron-95991424.html
In 2007 he was also a Lt. Of River Patrol.
http://home.comcast.net/~melauri/minutes.htm
Who sent Kyron’s investigation to River Patrol (Reisor et al) early on?
Crime happened on PPS property & PPB had the jurisdiction there.”
—-
” Rose says:
March 24, 2013 at 3:03 am
Staton says here 2 trial level attorneys Moawad & Demer were brought in (from the get go per billing) to do computer analyses, as was Woods the Sen Dep DA of the Child Abuse Unit. At this time iirc Moawad was on the CAU.
Now Moawad & Demer don’t show anywhere on googling as having computer expertise educationally or experientially. (Demer looks seasoned & a fine public servant on theft, burglary, embezzlement etc)
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/district_attorney_and_sheriff.html
So what’s this about computer analysis by a
a theater major
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/heidi-moawad/7/a02/6b8?_mSplash=1&sessionid=OLLB4_H0-M_bkDyfbCzX
reading emails?
Background on Portland Child Abuse Unit:
http://books.google.com/books?id=KkvHsnIIb90C&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=charlene+woods+child+abuse&source=bl&ots=Rq3FCW5OB8&sig=Rflojqk3gEqzC-Pa0uaZaRRStBc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-aVOUei1BOqN0QG1noGgBw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwADgK
DAs (long time = Woods), detectives & CPSD Intake are all in the same location.
Personally, professionally, I don’t like that. It blurs professional roles & appropriate professional distance.
A CPSD worker heading over to the DA’s is jmpressed to have one’s facts nailed.
If a CPSD worker calls in detective for a home visit, a Detective (or a gun) better be needed.
imo DAs and Detectives need to rub shoulders with their professional
peers, so they don’t go subjective.
Anyway, as to this crime, I’m reminded long ago I shared CPSD Court cases represented by 3 US attorneys of varying capabilities (2 outstanding). Not a one of the 3 fine Child Abuse & Neglect US Attorneys (or me or my cpsd peers) would have the foggiest how to investigate a stranger kidnapping or a school abduction. So why did Shrunk/Staton assign Wood & Moawad to do ANY kind of investigation, at their hourly rates, from June on? It was inevitable imo they’d settle on a family member to the exclusion of a stranger abduction. I can hear the CAU’s experienced detectives grilling Kaine & Terri now. Who’ll throw the other overboard first?”
—
Erose identified on url p 43 that Stahancyk & Rackner split up in 2005. Love to know date of Wagner’s defense.
@blink.
for whatever reason, I doubled copied the same post. It’s a duplication from after ”
Erose identified on url p 43 that Stahancyk & Rackner split up in 2005.
Love to know date of Wagner’s defense.”
1/2 way thru.
Can you erase the repetition?
Too long in the first place
Yes, but will need to review in the am and post, to confirm I splice it correctly
B
Reading this has me so saddened and sickened. Kyron was failed at every key moment that day; from not making visitors sign in, being given the ok to leave with sz, not being noticed missing, and then mcso being completely incompetent and one track minded to the detriment of the investigation. Not only has kyron been failed, but kiara has been kept from her mother, and Terri from her daughter for years. Shame on kaine and shame on mcso for allowi g that to happen having known this information all along. I feel physically ill after reading this. I only hope that this information will help progress the case so kyron can be found.
Blink, your work is incredible and I am so glad that kyron has such a dedicated group of people who are looking for him.
TY, tis the goal for sure.
B
“They have never acknowledged they were told about this witness account but a source close to http://www.blinkoncrime.com has confirmed they were informed but not given a witness description.”
***********
Why on earth would LE tell DY & KH about this person, but withhold the description? How about TY, was he given the info? I can only think of one reason and it isn’t good.
T. Ruth
This school is a very small building. It is about 125 ft. to the East parking lot from the West staircase to the basement. Fire code would require an emergency exit in the basement and perhaps at the West staircase to the basement. This is not shown in the referenced drawing. The basement is not shown on the plot plan. The basement is what I call a half basement where there are windows above grade. I determined this from the photos.
Blink has either a complete drawing of the school or photos that she has referenced to a drawing or both.
Sorry to say it, but Non Custodial Parent w/ Red Long Hair
(pictured above) sure does resemble David Durham.
Blink, what are your thoughts on Davids fate? Dead or Alive? Haven’t heard a word about the search for him, besides the pic on the FBI website.
I agree, there is a 3 way resemblance and it is dang eerie. On Mr. Durham- the only reason I suspect he may be deceased is because the man would not part with his dog. Other than that, I get the sensation he is a survivalist. No way to be sure.
B
It’s wasn’t a man. It was Large Marge aka Dede. Review Dede’s deposition again. There is a really horrid reason why she pleads the 5th on just about every question.
Seriously? That’s your contribution to the dialog here?
Go buy another garden gnome and all will be right with your world.
Oye.
B
T. Ruth says:
August 8, 2013 at 7:50 pm
Blink, are the witness quotes in your copy two different witnesses and were they in two different locations? It seems, now that I can see the arrow, that the south entrance is the front entrance, or it could be what is the south-east entrance they may have been referring to, which is way the heck across the school from where that room is. SZ would have had to walk Kyron through the halls if he went out either of those entrances. S or SE
emergency door next CR109 T.Ruth.
**********
From Blink’s Report:
The following is a summation of multiple direct witness accounts, edited to protect witness identification only.
“…He must have been standing behind me because I only recall hearing him ask if the boy could help him bring some stuff in from his truck. I thought it was (edited) until he looked up at him and then he looked at Ms. Matthews for approval and she nodded her head yes in response. They walked out of the South entrance together and I do not recall seeing either of them again.
*********************
So was this witness referring to the closest exit to that room to the south, as opposed to the actual most southerly exit of the school? If so, that would be the one that exited toward the soccer fields?
Second question, I happen to very good at voice recognition, I’m very sure there are people who are even more so. Is this witness saying that the voice of this person sounded like someone she knew who Kyron would have known? OR, is it because of the way this person said “Ky” as opposed to Kyron or something of that nature?
Kinda’ weird, but I had a dream very early on about Kyron, and strangely it involved someone I knew, who has nothing to do with Kyron or his family. But trying to figure out my dream (no I’m not any where’s near psychic), I kept thinking, well maybe someone with the same name first or surname had something to do with this. I came up with nothing. Interestingly, this person that I know has a very deeeep baritone voice and is quite a singer, has done a few musical theatrical performances. Just makes me wonder if whomever this witness is, recognized this person’s voice as being similar to someone because of the baritone. Totally bizarre dream-like stuff, but it’s interesting to me because of my dream.
Does one have to subscribe to something to hear the podcast? All I get is the intro.
no, did you click on the podcast link?
B
Looking forward to part 2!!!
I know sz is very sophisticated in his actions. Is it possible that he picked Kyron because of his family situation? Seems like a lucky draw, for sz, to pick a random child and have all the pressure put on a parent for so long. Had it been another child abducted, do you believe we would have heard about this much sooner, based on ghe lack of a TMH suspect?
I have to believe that he had no knowledge that Kyron would not be missed immediately and that an amber alert would not ensue.
I believe that the abductor planned an abduction of a child that day, but I could not say with certainty Ky was the intended target when he so very closely resembled other boys, but Ky did not appear to know him. If it makes sense, it appears to me to be a planned random- thus my SZ profile.
B
For maps of the school go to :
http://s160.photobucket.com/user/ubrmel/media/KYRON/Maps%20KYRON/64.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
For some photos of the school that I took last weekend go to:
http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=5838528790798831356#editor/target=post;postID=410646092425160730;onPublishedMenu=overviewstats;onClosedMenu=overviewstats;postNum=0;src=postname
Blink,
I am convinced that the “positioning” of the “white truck” in the flyers and the pressers did exactly what LE claimed it might do….create memories of the “other” truck/car/sz positioned where it/he might not have been.
IOW, if the SZ was seen in another area of the ‘outside’ of the school would the very late recollections place the vehicle or the person where he was not?
Now, as for ‘inside’ the school that is another story. I am VERY curious as to whether Ms Mathews room was in the middle of the hall. Just steps could take Kyron out those back doors, down the ramp and into a van.
Looking again at the back of the school and thinking about how many latecomers or late-goers would be entering/leaving from those back doors, where no kids were left playing, makes me very suspicious of a “blatant” SZ, with or without TMH, leaving via the front parking places having risked the main office, Skyline Blvd, the principal, secretary, etc.
Blink,
Here is the url to the above mentioned Pictures, thoughts about the logistics of the school:
I put the wrong url there. ( that says blogger…etc) Can you remove it?
Thanks dear. And i’m still working on some stuff!
vw
http://vwoolfexploresthenorthwest.blogspot.com
@ Blink & with much respect for wpg:
“How else do we juggle the need to advocate, alert others, and with much hope- find Kyron? Fwiw, this was my litmus test here.”
B
You cannot imagine the respect I have for you to take this risk. Three darn years is long enough! Good job!
My sentiments exactly. There are people sitting on the information that could unlock this case and have been since the beginning. It’s criminal, in my book.
grasshopper says:
August 8, 2013 at 8:54 pm
I get angrier and angrier when I think that LE/DA, D, K and T must have known about SZ and yet they still destroyed this family with their orchestrated and sustained pressure on Terri. Why would they do this?
this comment just appeared on the Anti Terri Horman FB page -
“Interesting development broadcasted on the news tonight 08-08-2013 regarding the
Kyron Horman Case.
08-08-2013.
The news announced tonight that Desiree Young, (Kyron’s birth mother), is going to launch her own PRIVATE Search using volunteers, search dogs, to search specific areas to try to recover
Kyron’s remains.
This means that Desiree has met with the Sheriff’s office and or DA’s office and probably received new information based on the recent grand jury testimony of DeDe Spicer’s testimony against her partner Terri Horman (Kyron’s stepmother).
This also means that Desiree now acknowledges that Kyron is dead.
Something we’ve been telling everyone from our first day of searching for Kyron when our SAR dogs indicated death alerts on scent of a dead human remains coming from the Horman property.
Even though Kaine Horman has repeatedly refused to allow our search dogs to search his property, we were able to get close enough to the property boundary downwind and all 3 of our search dogs indicated death alerts on a dead human scent.
So to all of you who gave me crap about going public that Kyron was murdered and his scent was coming from the Horman property,
GFY.
It will be interesting to see if Desiree finds anything. I hope she does so she can have closure and those involved in Kyron’s murder can be brought to justice.
By the way GFY doesn’t necessarily mean GO FUCK YOURSELF.
Being a professional that I am this just means Go FIND him YOURSELF.
SO GFY.”
I didn’t realise Kaine had refused searches on his property. Does anybody know if that is true???
albaLass- to clarify- this is not your words, this is something that appeared in it’s entirety on what of the hater havens?
I did not find anything remotely professional about such commentary and furthermore they should understand why a professional would not take them seriously. The home/property was searched several times. I think what that rather angry person may have meant was that their SAR resources were refused.. I don’t understand anything that appears on those sites or why anyone would waste their time on such drivel.
B
Once Kyron entered that building nobody should have been able to even speak to him until a person on his sign out sheet in the main office was used to sign him out. Every door other than the main entrance should have been locked after students were taken in at the beginning of the day. Any teacher approached about a child should have referred the person to the office no matter who the person was even if the teacher knew the person. Every student should have been personally received at an entrance monitored by staff and should have walked to class or breakfast or science fair down a hallway or breezeway monitored by staff. Any adult entering the building should have signed in through the office and at the science fair area attracting visitors, there should have been a sign in sheet. Auxiliary staff not responsible for a class can pull these posts. This is not impossible but necessary. As a retired principal of an elementary school with a population of 800 student from K-3 through second grade I know it is possible. The school dropped the ball that day no matter who was involved in Kyron’s disappearance. MO.
@TRuth. The podcast link that works is at the 1st entry in this thread.
The one point of this story that breaks my heart was the ‘nod’ from the teacher. Kyron was a shy quiet boy. Was his internal alarm going off having a stranger asking him to go with him to ‘help’? Was Kyron too afraif to tell the stranger ‘no’ and looked to Matthews to give the answer ‘no’ for him, since he didn’t want to tell an unknown adult No. But she didn’t give the answer he hoped for. Ky went to that room to see more exciting stuff; him going to help someone would take him away from this fun he sought. That was the paramount failure in this whole awful story that began future failures for him. All MO kyron deserves eternal happiness for everyone who failed him. Bless you little man
I was batting zero the other day, even giving credit to someone for something Blink said. MY bad Blink. Can you blame me though with so much new information to look at? I am going to tread lightly this time. SZ had to have this planned as he appears to be an organized criminal for everything to fall in place as it did. A teacher and witness see him speak something to Kyron and Ms. M nods affirmation to Kyron. Kyron and SZ are not seen again inside the school. A magician often fools the audience by some motion he knows will distract the audience from looking at the actual task that results in the trick. They know the audience and we look for what we think we should be looking at. Was there any distraction that occurred as Kyron and SZ stepped outside? I have seen teachers that clap their hands to get the attention of students, or flicker the lights when as a group instructions are to be given such as time to leave the area in groups. Did SZ know that at a particular time something like this was going to happen and planned to the minute his victims departure. There is also another possibility that a second SZ was involved that was in the school and the second SZ created the distraction.
Ode, think nothing of it, my head is as spinny as everyone’s while I finish the second part. I think what I would like to remind everyone is that there is absolutely no evidence that Kyron was the specifically intended target. Meaning, I can tell you without question I have seen pics of other young boys in the program that day, and there were at least 2 I would have trouble differentiating from Kyron – in fact, the image on the front page from inside the classroom I first thought could be him. Is not.
Point is, he could have been the only kid/boy in that room that appeared to not have a parent with him, and thus he “was it”.
B
I did try and count men on the SF attendee list. Some names to me were not gender specific but I came up with 61.
I have not had a second to verify but yes, what I was getting at was the LE implication of 60 suspects is based on the men on the list. That floored me.
B
Does anyone know if the “Pony Mail” PPS employee is one of the men on the list?
@wpg. The only witness identified is the one SZ is already well aware could identify him–the teacher who nodded permission. He probably knew her as an older compliant PPS team player.
Having reviewed my posts on investigatory personnel, imo from the first the investigation was led by 3 LONG-time members of the County’s Child Abuse Unit (CAU) on which there was some overlap with East Major Crimes team. Look at overtime sheets for DA: Woods was on CAU 20 yrs & its DA head (as had been Meisenheimer); Moawad was fulltime on this case & on CAU when it occurred. ODonnell had been on CAU the preceding 5 years. From the first this case was conceptualized as a (step)parental abuse case. And if you’ve been on CAU 5 years, you see an evil parent in everyone psychologically.
Imo SZ had preplanned to take from one of the isolated K/1 rooms in the basement: adjacent to his egress door of choice & to fit his taste of a young manageable boy. To know those age classrooms were there, to preselect, he must have been in the bldg before, likely as a, or posing as a, worker of some sort, or had been in the school as a parent/relative. There were also the property rentals, ie that adult male gay-league basketball team that practiced every Wed nite and undoubtedly other adult community rental purposes. or a past parent.