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Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police

A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued ©

S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime

DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman

In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher, she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court. Unofficially cleared, that is.

Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley, who have since refused all local media requests, would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.

Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide. While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously, her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.

As was proven not only by her recent polygraph, but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place, Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.

The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.

Stoy: So, in your estimation then, why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.

Spicher: I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons. I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with. He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc. I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name. As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order, she was also told that

Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28^th and never had one before that? I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.

Spicher: No. I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29^th or 30^th. I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.

Stoy: ok, sorry, continue. So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?

Spicher: They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding. It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June, and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40^th birthday party in March. So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?

To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.

Stoy: Which was?

Spicher: At first, I think that they really believed I was involved, and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was, and my vehicle never left, nor did I. They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.

Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case, they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?

Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect. I never felt that way, but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever, but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.

Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?

Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did. To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning. I would ask like who do you mean, because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this. I was scared and it turned out it was good reason. I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.

Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice? Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that. People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies. I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative. In fact, Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly. So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.

Spicher: (laughs) Interesting. I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.

Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?

Spicher: No, do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?

Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?

Spicher: I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house. Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.

Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?

Spicher: That’s it, yes, him. Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?

Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through, and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you. If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information, I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?

Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.

Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back , considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work? What did your attorney say when you told him?

Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney, but to answer your question as to my opinion, I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction. After more thought, and other conversations, I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible. What is your opinion on it?

Stoy: I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece. Again, not wanting to temper your opinions as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did. Is that ok with you?

Spicher: Sure, thank you.

Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion. I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman. Is that correct?

Spicher: Correct, ok.

Stoy: Did they ask you this?

Spicher: Who is they? You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).

Stoy: Fair point, you’re right. The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor. Allow me to rephrase please. Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?

Spicher: Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?

Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?

Spicher: (laughs) touche’ . I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids. I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.

Stoy: Why shock you?

Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing” and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well, impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.

Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct? That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc. And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?

Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury. But yes, that is what she told me. I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her. To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement . I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case, but yes, they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are. But that is my assumption.

Stoy: Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home? Spicher: I am not sure about the exclusive use part, I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.

Stoy: Ok. Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory. By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.

Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.

Stoy: How would you know that?

Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request. She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids. I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.

Stoy: ok, understood, we will get back to that. I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.” Do you recall what year, even ballpark.

Spicher: I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005, and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.

Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine, I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help. Do you remember where you were during the conversation.

Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell, Terri had a lot of drama, and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know, we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.

Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?

Spicher: Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention. It was either during that call or at the lunch. Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.

Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?

Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.

Stoy: Got it. What did she say

Spicher: She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”. She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her. She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller. The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him. I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.

Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from? Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?

SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.

Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person? Sort of like… she gets approval to remain anonymous, she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?

Spicher: Yes, something like that. Except and again, we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out. The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact. From what I recall, I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.

Stoy: Understood, so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day, but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.

Spicher: Yes, I think so.

Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice. I don’t think so because she did not ask for any. So then what? Did Kaine find out?

Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy, and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day. If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember, that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.

Stoy: Ok. Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?

Spicher: Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed, it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing. She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office. We did.

Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what? Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served, in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le, but it would surprise me. Terri was always very family centric. She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing, this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.

Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: No, not at all.

Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?

Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper. He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.

Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting” and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”

Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.

Stoy: She specifically said the FBI, who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.

Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?

Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?

Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?

It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years. The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier. As a strong argument for the trickle down effect, Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle, was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report. A former Sheriff, Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications. The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place. Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.

In fact, Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.

MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.

The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell. O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.

There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.

In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week, it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.

It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan, the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.

Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.

After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption tipping other’s off in the alleged ring , Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso, Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested. The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike. The specifics of which were sealed by the court. It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.

Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids? How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?

“… Jackson, through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”

“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest. He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”

On June 3rd, 2010, approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance, Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.

From the Indictment:

Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden. Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products. Worden has never been charged.

Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.

Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and

841(b)( 1)(E).

The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.

Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).

The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin, a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.

According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.

From Buff To Puff

In contrast to Jackson, although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement, William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon” cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.

In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote, “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”

Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way. Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client, was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.

John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case, sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well. Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question. Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason. The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.

“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”

Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.

Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.

On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.

Andrew Millbrooke filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby, Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot. In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy. The suit is pending. A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion. Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].

With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against Traverso were dismissed this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.

Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation. Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.

As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .

Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.

However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids, but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.

“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.

“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.

He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.

At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”

S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.

The source, an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…” “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…” The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.

Reached for comment, Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.

A request for comment to Mr. Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.

Pending Matters

Through Attorney Bunch, Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.

In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday, Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.

Early this afternoon, a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.

A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013

Jacqueline Beaufort, Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.

Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.

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4,398 Comments

Eloise says:

November 20, 2013 at 4:12 pm

T. Ruth says:
November 19, 2013 at 9:02 pm
~snip
@erose, yes, who was telling everyone not to talk? I’ve seen several references from people who post as locals saying they were asked not to talk about the science fair that day. Why? Did something else happen at the science fair? Makes no sense to be ordering people not to discuss the science fair at all. The picture B posted of the science fair is the only one I’ve seen anywhere other than the one’s taken by Terri. Why is that? Why would LE do that? Was it someone else asking these parents not to talk and not share photos?
~~~~~~~~~
Thinking back
Weren’t we led to believe all projects were being brought in June 3rd? If that is accurate information, that could be helpful in determining who needed to bring something legitimately from the car. Can any teachers speak to who/what child didn’t bring a project on the 3rd? Anyone from Kyron’s class? Was there food or snacks served at this fair? Any professional videoing or photography of the science fair ever been conducted in the past- for yearbook or newsletter?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rose says:
November 20, 2013 at 11:58 am
It is possible Mathews and/or other witnesses might’ve said “I think Kyr went to help X,” and identified the man–pony or ups or janitor or staffer, say. When LE interviews him, he replies he saw Kyr return to the bldg, as he himself did & was seen, or he immediately thereafter was seen elsewhere. Who’s going to be able to convert him to a POI based on probable id of Rm 109 witnesses alone? Would take another crime or finding touch dna on Kyron.
~~~
Imo- I think this is exactly what happened- whether parent or employee. I do believe the teachers were told to be quiet- seems the ‘prudent’ thing to have been told to do for the school and the ‘case’. I also wonder if Ms Matthews was even looking in the direction of the SZ, could her back have been turned, reaching under the desk for something and just responded like- yea- yea go ahead. ??

That might just leave a child to report on this issue and may have not be considered credible. Not that I agree- just theorizing.
Rose says:

November 20, 2013 at 4:24 pm

school board, PPS & financial
transactions need a long haul DOJ public corruption investigation
http://www.wweek.com/portland/mobile/articles/articleView/id:21543
—-
per mcso alerts, DA, Staton & Reese staged a photo op at the
jail today promoting an Obama legislative proposal on early ed
RedRose says:

November 20, 2013 at 4:26 pm

With all of the questions and all of the tips LE has, I just really think that the whole answer is in those early tips somewhere. Tempted to say, “Lemme at ‘em” on behalf of all Blink researchers.

I’ll bet somebody HERE could find something THERE, in one of those tips.

…for example, LE MUST have interviewed the teacher who nodded to SZ (or his accomplice), and she MUST have given a description. This was fresh knowledge. So they know. She knows.

Re “knowing” — I’d bet a box of doughnuts that somebody up there on the hill knows something, even seriously suspects someone, but just isn’t saying (for whatever reason – relative, husband, child, etc.)

@grasshopper says: November 19, 2013 at 12:21 pm

…. Why didn’t porter
… why didn’t matthews
… Why didn’t anybody

It is inexplicable.
January says:

November 20, 2013 at 5:58 pm

@ Mom3.0 and Amy’s Sister

I’ve read your exchanges with Blink with great interest. I’ve been following this case from the beginning, reading daily and posting when I feel moved to do so. I remember early on, believing Terri to be guilty. Why? Because based on media, LE flyers, Terri’s sexting, and DY/Kaine press conferences, it just made sense to me. As time progressed, however, I started to crawl up onto a fence. I remember several posters here referring to being on the fence. Sometimes we’d jump off on to one-side-or-the-other, probably being swayed by the excellent perspectives we were exposed to here at BOC.

Presently, I am cannot say I believe with 100% certainty that Terri doesn’t have some knowledge as to who may have taken Kyron. However, as I read more and think more deeply about the evidence that leads away from Terri I am getting there pretty quickly.

The final reason I am currently supporting Terri is the fact that she and her daughter have been kept away from each other for three years based on a RO with unsubstantiated hearsay. If at anytime the Judge demanded proof of a MFHP to extend the RO this whole mess would be much more clear. LE did not step up to the plate to substantiate because they were never asked to.

Meanwhile, a woman who has not been charged for a damn thing, sits in her mother’s home, penniless, betrayed by her husband and friends, vilified nationwide by the media, and has not been able to see her precious child for over three years.

To you Amy’s Sister and mom3.0, imagine yourselves, innocent, and placed in this position. I do. I imagine the longing I would have for my child, and hers for me. If Kaira wasn’t part of the equation, I probably wouldn’t be as outraged, but she is. If any of your arguments that Terri might be culpable had proof or any factual basis behind them, I might be back on the fence. But as it stands now, and unless LE charges Terri with something, She can’t be free of nightmare and have her child back in her arms quickly enough for me.
tiny says:

November 20, 2013 at 7:32 pm

Let me clarify one thing in my comment about covering the school’s ass. By financial I do not mean a lawsuit, although, imo that absolutely should come (I find lawsuits against a district stupid. Like suing yourself). I mean the minute that the public, the TMH blaming public, figures out that not only did the school allow Kyron to leave with someone, they lied about it for 3+ years the parents will start pulling their kids. It is easy to do. The school complex’s bread and butter is their student population first then the never ending bond issues.
This bubble bursts and so does their budget. FAST!
RedRose says:

November 20, 2013 at 8:00 pm

I am trying to imagine what possible reasons TMH would allow her daughter to be kept away from her for this length of time.

1. Kiara’s safety?
2. TMH: guilt about something?
3. TMH: Blackmailed about activities (whatever they were) by hubby if she tries to get the baby back?
4. Or threatened if she tries to see her baby?
5. Her own safety??
6. Unknown other reason.

The only one that makes any sense, if TMH is without guilt in any way, is #1. If she DIDN’T do anything, how could she (or even her lawyers) allow this much time to pass with no mother/daughter contact? Doesn’t makes sense.

Makes one wonder if SHE is the person who might know something that would help to find peace for Kyron.

@anuary says: November 20, 2013 at 5:58 pm

. . . .she and her daughter have been kept away from each other for three years

Meanwhile, a woman who has not been charged for a damn thing, sits in her mother’s home, penniless, betrayed by her husband and friends, vilified nationwide by the media, and has not been able to see her precious child for over three years.
vw says:

November 20, 2013 at 8:28 pm

Graceinthehillssays,

@Vw, KH’s words were “investigating their spouse”, NOT “invested in their spouse.”

With all due respect, how can ANY of us know how involved KH was with his children/family? For all we know, he could have been an involved, loving father to his children.
———–

@Grace

Thanks for pointing that out. I’ll correct it. Interesting transcription on my part.

I guess my slip in conversion there actually suggested that I think subconciously I believed that he was the best possible loving and involved daddy, making the best of a marriage and children and a WIFE he was invested in?

Except…when not typing fast…I can’t ignore that quote of his….”I thought the marriage would have been over by the time Kyron disappeared”.

VW- that is not a quote. That is not only not what he said in context, but it was edited as well.- I think that has been an issue for some interpretations that have led to unfair opinion. Not picking on you friend, quote is a strong word and has liability implications

Let me ask you this. Not testily. If Kaine were cheating on tmh, as Desiree states on this phil show, and that “indiscretion” (let alone details) were known to the public AT THE TIME of the sexting LE brought to the public’s attention…what would you have thought about the tit-for-tat?

And second question. Who covered up his affair? For how long and for what purpose?

And….If true, and it was and Houze knew it, wouldn’t you have a LOT of regard for the way Houze and Bunch have been treating this case? Professionally?

I sure do. I think that statement Houze sent into the Phil show if very indicative of a case to be won on the case’s merits, rather than sensationalism.

Houze sent a statement to the Dr. Phil show? source?

TMH, in my book,is not a Zimmerman. If there had been ANY report of any angry outbursts of physical violence toward the children, I’d been on one of the ANTI pages right now. No CSD reports. No anecdotes. And Kaine is busy retracting his statements of drunkeness leading to child endangerment which he alluded to about the time LE showed him the sexting to show the world.

@Rose,etc
Plausible theory about SZ being interviewed but saying he went back in with Kyron. And left K in the capable hands of Ms. M once again.

But what does that do to the timing issue? I mean…9:15-10:00 would maybe be covered with him at school? Would then that white-truck presser (Did you see the truck between….and this time?) mean that LE thought TMH came BACK to the school, say 9:55 am….and got him during passing time back to his classroom for re-grouping, and attendance taking?

So why “Did you see the truck between 10:15 and 11:30″?

She was seen in the 2nd Fred Meyer….so why would LE be wanting (really) to truncate the time frames? But not tell anyone that they had her in their sites?

I mean, she’d have to be hauling ass to get back to the school after the 2nd Fred Meyer. Someone would have noticed.

Either that or, again, SZ was a stranger.

Terri did not return to the school, there is just no evidence of that, but there is to the contrary.

Me in bold vw
Jeff D says:

November 20, 2013 at 9:38 pm

snip…..

January says:
November 20, 2013 at 5:58 pm

@ Mom3.0 and Amy’s Sister

I’ve read your exchanges with Blink with great interest. I’ve been following this case from the beginning, reading daily and posting when I feel moved to do so. I remember early on, believing Terri to be guilty. Why? Because based on media, LE flyers, Terri’s sexting, and DY/Kaine press conferences, it just made sense to me. As time progressed, however, I started to crawl up onto a fence. I remember several posters here referring to being on the fence. Sometimes we’d jump off on to one-side-or-the-other, probably being swayed by the excellent perspectives we were exposed to here at BOC. …….

~~~~~~~~~

per my recollection of events and perspectives presented here this is how my view fluctuated exactly…

the entire comment perfectly represents my pov..

thx
grasshopper says:

November 20, 2013 at 9:47 pm

@tiny,
I wonder if this really would happen. no matter what schools do, it seems to be passed over. probably not covered much by media. I don’t know how it would be done, but there would be a way to discount school responsibility. maybe throw a few teachers under the bus. It SHOULD happen. People should be outraged but I bet a box of voodoo donuts that that would not happen. it would be minimized and life would go on as usual. PPS would still win their next levy request.
vw says:

November 20, 2013 at 10:37 pm

VW 8:28

Wow that was a bit confusing, Blink.

Blink: Houze sent a statement to the Dr. Phil show? source?

VW…but BOLDED by Blink (means you agree with me, right?):

TMH, in my book,is not a Zimmerman. If there had been ANY report of any angry outbursts of physical violence toward the children, I’d been on one of the ANTI pages right now. No CSD reports. No anecdotes. And Kaine is busy retracting his statements of drunkeness leading to child endangerment which he alluded to about the time LE showed him the sexting to show the world.

@Rose,etc
Plausible theory about SZ being interviewed but saying he went back in with Kyron. And left K in the capable hands of Ms. M once again.

But what does that do to the timing issue? I mean…9:15-10:00 would maybe be covered with him at school? Would then that white-truck presser (Did you see the truck between….and this time?) mean that LE thought TMH came BACK to the school, say 9:55 am….and got him during passing time back to his classroom for re-grouping, and attendance taking?

So why “Did you see the truck between 10:15 and 11:30″?

She was seen in the 2nd Fred Meyer….so why would LE be wanting (really) to truncate the time frames? But not tell anyone that they had her in their sites?

I mean, she’d have to be hauling ass to get back to the school after the 2nd Fred Meyer. Someone would have noticed.

Either that or, again, SZ was a stranger.

Terri did not return to the school, there is just no evidence of that, but there is to the contrary.

Blink: Me in bold vw ….smily

I’m assuming, Blink, that you concur with the above. Smile.

Regarding the “statement” by Houze:

He sent a statement to Phil in regards to the Ethical duty to not discuss a case that is under investigation.
It’s in Part 3. (A response for commment for the show).

When the statement flashed Desiree stated: “Since when did Terri’s rights bcome more important than Kyron’s.” IIRC

That’s when Drl Phil introduced the lawyer rather than responding to Desriee’s statement directly.

I bolded my comments so it would stand out- specifically to outline that you cannot call something a quote that is not, unless you quote and source it.

Might sound like I am being fickle, but I promise you I am not- there is a huge difference between Houze “sending a statement” as opposed to him responding to a request for one. I just needed to make that distinction because I know his reason behind it.
B
T. Ruth says:

November 20, 2013 at 10:58 pm

RedRose says:
November 20, 2013 at 8:00 pm

I am trying to imagine what possible reasons TMH would allow her daughter to be kept away from her for this length of time.

1. Kiara’s safety?
2. TMH: guilt about something?
3. TMH: Blackmailed about activities (whatever they were) by hubby if she tries to get the baby back?
4. Or threatened if she tries to see her baby?
5. Her own safety??

(snipped)

********

I understand the questions here, as I asked them myself, but RedRose you forgot one point or you could put it into your unknown reasons category #7.

#8 Because Terri hired an attorney who knew she was being accused in defacto-kind-a-way and she took his advisement to heart.

For me, that would be the best and possibly ONLY reason for proceeding in the way she has.
vw says:

November 20, 2013 at 11:06 pm

@Sunshine.

I do apolized to you and to all other…specially Blink.

I transcribed that wrong…the sentence Kaine spoke was “…Most norman people aren’t INVESTIGATING their spouse on a day-today basis”

Possibly…six of one, half dozen of the other. But we should go on what Kaine actually said…not what I mis-typed.

Sunshine said:

The last sentence in the above told me why KH has a history with moving woman to woman…’Most normal people aren’t invested in their spouse on a day to day basis.’

*SNARK ALERT* By not being involved in your spouses life on a day to day basis, don’t ya think that is a contributing problem and explanation of your relationship problems?? I don’t see much investment by KH in his relationships (that mind you, produce children) and then when the relationship is not working out, he moves on to the next. UGH.

Poor little Kyron has been lost in the melee of dysfunction.
T. Ruth says:

November 20, 2013 at 11:16 pm

more old posts:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/14/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-landscaper-rudy-sanchez-knew-kyron/

MaeBee says:
July 20, 2010 at 4:59 pm

First of all, I am a friend of the family. The glasses were not Kyron’s. Also there is not a ransom that I am aware of. If you find any information please post it. That would be a new one.
Terri H. was not the last person to see Kyron alive. When she left the school with her baby girl, several did see her without Kyron. She waved to him as he started walking into his classroom. The first bell was at 9:00 a.m. so Kyron was not left alone in an empty school. And Terri didn’t abandon him at the school. It was close to the time that the kids had to get into their groups. I also know from my own experience, when a child has been going to this school all year, he knows the school very well and more than likely didn’t want mom to hang around. They like their independence and schools are supposed to be safe. Right? Children in my experience do not lie, especially little ones such as Tanner. There are more players in this case than people know. They are not going to tell anyone yet, who they are looking into. Terri is in Roseburg and it is good that she is out of the public’s eye for now. I believe in the Police and the other agencies that they are doing the best that they can. I want the correct person or persons arrested and for Kyron to be found. But I do not believe in tatics that will destroy someone’s life so they can use this person as a smoke screen. Terri H was told from the beginning that she wouldn’t be talking. She actually thought the police and FBI, etc. were her friends. She gave them everything that she could give. I know it is not good enough for some since they didn’t hear her speak but she is not allowed to speak now either. It isn’t her idea to keep quiet, she is under orders to not talk about this case to anyone. Maybe in the future, she will be able to say her piece. I am still wanting to know about Brian Pumala and his electrical presentation that Kyron was so excited about seeing. Does anyone have his information? A picture?
Jackie Bauer says:
July 20, 2010 at 6:05 pm

Justathought says:
July 20, 2010 at 2:39 pm
But, there are no lenses in the police released replica photo so how could they be the glasses he was wearing?

Justathought: if you’ll see Blink’s newest post, there’s a detailed glasses description going on there with excerpts from previous glasses discussions. There you can see Blink’s responses as well. And if the lenses were cracked or shattered, it would be best if LE removed them before showing the photo of them…
MaeBee says:
July 20, 2010 at 9:04 pm

I just listened to the radio show that blink was on. Did I hear you right that Terri admitted to an affair with Rudy Sanchez or only that she did know him because of the yard work? If she admitted to having a tryst with him, then it truly changes everything that I have been told by her. I need this to be clarifyed, just for my own peace of mind. Thank You.

I am told by sources that Terri was involved in an intimate relationship with Rudy Sanchez at some point. The extent of which, to my knowledge has not been verified.
MaeBee says:
July 21, 2010 at 12:01 am

Blink: Thank you so much. This clarifies a couple of things for me.

*******************

Sounds similarly like what Dede told Blink. LE putting the kibosh on everyone.
vw says:

November 20, 2013 at 11:19 pm

@Sunshine, said

*SNARK ALERT* By not being involved in your spouses life on a day to day basis, don’t ya think that is a contributing problem and explanation of your relationship problems?? I don’t see much investment by KH in his relationships (that mind you, produce children) and then when the relationship is not working out, he moves on to the next. UGH.

********

Which, to me, explains his need in every interview, increasingly, to “erase” the mother. IOW, to relate that he “tied” Kiara’s shoes, “kissed” her hello and took her to the bus stop and grabbed her and went to school with her when the bus driver indcated Kyron wasn’t at school, and told Kyron how proud he was of his project and to have a good day and they’d have ice cream later.

Notice that the mom who is really involved in those kids’ day is out of the picture? As if she didn’t exist that day at all, giving the image of a single fatherl?
vw says:

November 20, 2013 at 11:27 pm

@January, and Jeff

“…..As time progressed…”
——

I am fairly sure that this has been a case of “….wait and see” all along.
Kantor can NOT deny it, anymore. He’s in it for the long haul. Judge M. was in it for a double-dipping year.
grasshopper says:

November 20, 2013 at 11:35 pm

RedRose says: November 20, 2013 at 8:00 pm I am trying to imagine what possible reasons TMH would allow her daughter to be kept away from her for this length of time. 1. Kiara’s safety? 2. TMH: guilt about something? 3. TMH: Blackmailed about activities (whatever they were) by hubby if she tries to get the baby back? 4. Or threatened if she tries to see her baby? 5. Her own safety?? 6. Unknown other reason. The only one that makes any sense, if TMH is without guilt in any way, is #1. If she DIDN’T do anything, how could she (or even her lawyers) allow this much time to pass with no mother/daughter contact? Doesn’t makes sense. Makes one wonder if SHE is the person who might know something that would help to find peace for Kyron.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BunchofHouzes could not have predicted that T would be allowed no visitation at all, since normally in a divorce this is scheduled by judge. Nobody expected it would be three years and counting.

there has been no crime committed to this date by Terri Horman and IMO Meisinheimer (original judge) should have scheduled some kind of visitation. Also should be noted that Kantor is seeking a Federal seat from my various readings on his political aspirations.

Terri has been unsuccessfully trying to be reunited with her daughter since the very beginning and filed documents through Peter Bunch in October 2010 to do so. At that time what Laura Rackner was trying to do was get documentation from Terri she wasn’t able to offer up, just as it is the current standing now. The 5th amendment covers a vast amount and more than what Engle and Rackner realize. There was an argument during the last hearing that Engle stated Terri should give over basic information that you normally would in a divorce. This is no normal divorce and the reason for it lays entirely with the Kaine camp. They started this off with the MFH allegation and unfounded RO. Think about some of the statements made above and the view in the beginning of guilt. People seem to now see that Terri is an extremely patient person who is dedicated to getting her daughter back and by the looks of the actions of the BunchofHouzes, they seem to have factual information they didn’t have before that clears her.

One of the statements Bunch said in his filing October 2010 was something to the effect that custody and visitation would have to wait for another day when other facts could be found. (not verbatim) I don’t pretend to know what Houze was thinking at the RO renewal and can you imagine that conversation they must of had with Terri? I think IF IT WERE ME and given my option of going forth against unknown allegations where it’s clear that I’m not going to know what I’m up against since the DA won’t release any information and state it’s part of the investigation or wait until I can use factual information and time to show who I really am and not what the media has portrayed to get my daughter back, that’s what I would do.

This isn’t Houze’s first rodeo and the fault should lie squarely on Kaine’s shoulders for not allowing a mother and daughter to see each other based on his limited knowledge and what he was able to gain. Basically a divorce without a divorce and he gets to keep all his stuff.

How could anybody have expiated this kind of proceeding in a divorce?
vw says:

November 20, 2013 at 11:49 pm

Rose says:
November 19, 2013 at 8:27 am
Hales & Commissioners apparently cave to the Union on steroid testing for PPB Officers :
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/11/portland_police_tentative_cont.html
This was apparently a make or break issue for the Union who fought it bitterly until finally after much delay
it was introduced in a tiny way in mid-2012. now it will be gone again.
—-
Rose…from the article:

“What’s with the ‘unlabeled sport supplement’ change? This change to the substance abuse policy protects members who take sports supplements that are tainted with steroids or prohormones.”

So…in regards to this case:

Why would Kaine’s substance abuse, if it were in fact held in serious station, be of any interest to the LE who have it a policy to “protect” steroid use?
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 1:07 am

@vw & Sunshine. You just highlighted , for me, someone with an intense (indeed, exclusivizing, not that that’s a word) attachment to his prepubescent female family member, while having underattachment–dehumanizing in fact–to the adult females in his home. Imo I wish someone in Spokane could go read that Neil 20 yr divorce file; I suspect he’s acting out some history.
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 1:22 am

@Blink. I thought SZ’s possible cover story of being seen later without Kyron presumd he’d rapidly immobilized him & left him in his truck whilst he went back in, or to some other appointment, to be “seen.”
As for what LE thought wrt TH, I’ve never bought into their thinking her morning through from a mother/housewife’s pov.

Yes, I think that is a strong possibility. I am not aware of any witness seeing Kyron returning into the building, but that does not mean there is not one.

To add what I also believe to be a very strong possibility in that regard- if LE is going from witness accounts who believe they saw a kid matching Kyron’s description after that in school- I am telling you it is VERY possible that it was a boy that looks nearly identical to him. No doubt in my mind from a cursory glance, sighting from the side or retrospective half-memory that could happen. I repeat- I thought this child was Kyron when I first saw the image.

That aspect has always bothered me greatly. Before anyone asks- does that mean I think it possible the witnesses who saw the SZ/Ky/EM exchange got it wrong?
Definitely not.
B
Mom3.0 says:

November 21, 2013 at 2:04 am

RE GraceintheHills says:
November 19, 2013 at 4:22 pm

vw says:
November 18, 2013 at 2:35 am
@mom 44

Vw says, “Thanks for the play-by-play. I think you got it

In the end, you state Kaine states this:

“kaine continues: there was alot of things that were happing in life and i spent alot of my time focused on my kids and myjob and I didnt focus on her end in that I definitely should have spent more time but
also with hindsight in the discussion ive had with other people…most nrmal people arent invested in their spouse on a day to day basis…”

IMO…he did NOT spend a lot of time “focused” on his kids other than posing for the obiligitory photos. He wasn’t the one teaching and working out the problems and issues. Never, once, have I heard him talk in length about the real issues the kids were facing. He was an “observer” in Kyron’s education. He trailed the fam to the outings. He hadn’t a clue as to James HS school issues. He never once spoke of going to a teacher-parent conference and contributing. Or to a soccer game for Kyron. Why do you think he states, over and over and over how he “tied Kiara’s shoes” and “told Kyron how proud he was” of him. No other stories? Like many men involved with polishing his body, extra-curricular activities and career, he was not involved with his family…other than monitoring, minutely, ever penny spent and accounted for.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Vw, KH’s words were “investigating their spouse”, NOT “invested in their spouse.”

With all due respect, how can ANY of us know how involved KH was with his children/family? For all we know, he could have been an involved, loving father to his children.

—- Yr welcome VW
hey guys this mistake was mine and I own it- I apologize for getting the statement wrong- grace you are correct he said investigating not invested in-

which to me seems of as what normal person investigates their spouse ever- not just day to day- given that he was speaking to focusing on the kids and his job it seemed like he would have said invested not investigating…..
again I apologize

I think there was alot of things kaine was not aware of with terri-

although I really agree with you Grace we cant say how focused he was or invested he was-

But we do know that james cared alot for him and saw him as his dad- and while everyone is worried about Terri not seeing Terri- I think poor James was overlooked in this too, as he as quoted as saying

James said he misses his little sister — and would like to see Kaine as well.

“He was like a dad to me,” James said. “I lived with him for eight years.”

Kaine hopes to talk to James again soon.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

vw kaine was doing his part the same as terri was doing her part-

Kaine did solve problems on day to day issues james is quoted as sayng:

He described Kaine as calm but strict. “If you didn’t follow the rules, you’d get in trouble,” James said.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

and again Kyron called Terri mom and according to james she treated kyron the same as him and from everyones and james said kaine was like a dad to him

I do not see it as unusual that kaine tells the same story (surrounding that day over and over) I have no doubt its burned in his mind tying little kittys shoes and the walk to the bus…all of it.

I think Kaine was awre of James issues but according to that article- it seems that he thought it best for terri to make decisions concerning James education and living arrangements- according to Kaine it wasnt because of school it was because James and she were butting heads- anyone with a teen knows this comes with the terrritoy and I am sure kaine did his share of choosing his battles with James…

I think terri and kaines marriage was not conventional in many ways both were too focused on their gym workouts and their extra curricular activities at the same time I dont think they realized just how much this may have contributed to the problem… JMO

Still in other ways their marriage was more conservative it was more old school-JMO

for instance kaine is quoted as saying

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

He said when Kyron brought home anything but a green card she wanted Kaine to discipline him by grounding him to his room for the evening, eliminating play time or not letting him watch movies.

—
So to me -this seems like any Mom who chooses to say wait until yr father gets home-

and kaine may have took on this role begrudgingly or not but it does seem kaine may have been more the disciplinarian or back up when terri felt she needed it just as terri as a teacher may have willingly or later w/ new baby begrudgingly took on school “chores” teaching role-

perhaps she was tired and that contributed to sending James away IDK

This is not to say that both didnt share in all duties it just goes to show they delegated jobs in the marriage and the home-

terri was called a doting Mom well in my experience doting Moms dont usually stand back to let dad take over combing hair or tying shoes etc

Kaine and terri may have never made it as a married couple for too much longer, but it seems BOTH Kaine and Terri were at one time doing their best for the children — or what they thought was best and according to james it seems it had been working….

So what happened ? IDK

I think if Blink is correct and this turns out to be an innocent family tore apart by first a horrible tragedy then LE’s mishandling and tunnel vision – then that is a crying shame.

AJMO Peace

Mom 3.0 I just wanted to add that, imo, if this is SZ, a crime of opportunity unrelated to any complicity direct or accidental to the family, which at this point is my belief as I cannot rule it out- then the person responsible for ripping this family apart is the predator who took Ky from his school that day.

As a consequence to that act, then yes, I do believe LE handling of this situation has put others at risk, has egregiously abused it’s position of public trust under the guise of investigative strategy- rising to the level of wreckless in some instances and having done so has allowed an offender to remain undetected and Kyron to stay missing. Lastly- it has absolutely interfered with the rights of parent and child wrt to Terri and Kitty- and Kaine, to be honest.
B
Mom3.0 says:

November 21, 2013 at 2:11 am

oops corrections “of” should be off kaines statement seems off (investigating vs invested in)

correction Terri not seeing Terri should read -not seeing Kiara

correction

and from everyones- should have read and from everyones thoughts she treated them well- and james said kaine was like a dad to him

My apologies sometimes thinking and typing is just too much for me sheesh
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 2:23 am

http://www.wweek.com/portland/mobile/blogs/blogView/id:30935
one retiree Board member’s take on PPS Admin & Board.
Mom3.0 says:

November 21, 2013 at 4:00 am

January thank you very much for such a well reasoned post sharing your journey to where you are now i sincerely appreciate it-

RE January says:
November 20, 2013 at 5:58 pm

@ Mom3.0 and Amy’s Sister

I’ve read your exchanges with Blink with great interest.

–Thanks january i appreciate the interest I cant speak for Amys sister so this is my thoughts only

You-

I’ve been following this case from the beginning, reading daily and posting when I feel moved to do so.

–
Me
January most everyone here has been Reading from the beginning- You guys are awesome- I have kept up on the threads but I have not read every post – so i am at a disadvantage as to your guys journey FI as to when exactly most everyone seemed to make the leap that LE is lying about the MFHP and much more -

I can understand the leap that Rudy may have lied but I cant see the evidence any evidence that LE would try to frame the stepmom with this ruse- and get the DEA involved- if anyone can help me understand this Id appreciate it-

and I can understand wanting to believe terri is totally innocent but if noone can rule out that she is involved or has some culpability as the invitor of the vampire or as perhaps being involved in steroids herself etc- i dont understand everyones adamance that she is being railroaded by Kaine and desiree and LE especially when LE has never said she is “the one”

there is a grand jury going on bt a grand jury may have started like us here thinking “abc” and with further info and witnesses a door to suspect “def” may need further investigation… so can we really say the GJ is trying to indict Terri or have they looked at the info and moved on? IDk…

You
I remember early on, believing Terri to be guilty.

January – I have not said I believe terri is guilty- I am only offering up different countering thoughts-as a balance- like grace i am keeping an open mind- in the beginning I did not believe one way or another it was my early readings here that made me swing back and forth- – Blinks thoughts BeeJays- Noras and all of you- and yes for all the reasons you mention below:

You-
Why? Because based on media, LE flyers, Terri’s sexting, and DY/Kaine press conferences,But it just made sense to me.

Me
But even when I was swinging on the gate attached to that fence you yourself have been on, I never went so far as to believe that she did this alone not for very long- as THAT never made sense to me-

You:
As time progressed, however, I started to crawl up onto a fence. I remember several posters here referring to being on the fence. Sometimes we’d jump off on to one-side-or-the-other, probably being swayed by the excellent perspectives we were exposed to here at BOC.

I totally understand january

You-

Presently, I am cannot say I believe with 100% certainty that Terri doesn’t have some knowledge as to who may have taken Kyron.

Me-

THIS is where I am January – except I think she may not have even realized she knew – I think it is more likely that someone she befriended or who followed her online or at the gym etc may have taken it upon themselves to act out- and if this is true or a chance of the truth then GAlmighty the years of not being able to clear her due to her lawyering up etc have cost dearly

This is where I am angered at terri -justified or not -is that she did lawyer up and she did not immediately gve up her laptop and she was angered over her privacy- and I get that doesnt mean squat to her having done anything to kyron but as a Mom- I say what did she do for him?
I agree with “old” Blink on this issue :

PP Id stand naked in the center of town for a day if I thought it would help
-
and even if I didnt think it would and LE said it was the only way Id still stand there exposed in all my unglory embarrassed-cold alone- faults flashing dirty laundry exposed-

if there was the slightest chance id give up all my secrets even my darkest fantasies- Id be like “Chunk” in ” the Goonies” spilling all crying as I did – dancing the “Truffle shuffle”

Id willingly go to jail – LE couldnt stop me from talking- and I know this isnt legally sound and it probably would get me jailed arrested for indecent exposure and disturbing the peace and Im sure my mouth would get me in trouble- but still Id do it all – if only for the chance that my child would come home -

You-
However, as I read more and think more deeply about the evidence that leads away from Terri I am getting there pretty quickly.

me-

January, what evidence leads away from Terri? what evidence leads away from her and excludes her from any and all involvement?

What evidence is there that Kyron was abducted?
What evidence do we have or are we aware of that rules out anything or anyone?

You wrote:

The final reason I am currently supporting Terri is the fact that she and her daughter have been kept away from each other for three years based on a RO with unsubstantiated hearsay.

Me
January if we cant rule out anything or anyone or Teris involvement How can it be best for Kiara to be with terri IDK honestly thats why I ask-

You wrote:

If at anytime the Judge demanded proof of a MFHP to extend the RO this whole mess would be much more clear. LE did not step up to the plate to substantiate because they were never asked to.

Januyary I understand your thoughts but how do you know this to be true- a MFHP that wasnt successful is one of the worst to prosecute- as it becomes a case of she said he said- and who can believed in this instance IDK

Can I ask you if you can point me to the evidence that Terri lead LE to Rudy ? as it was thought in the beginning that the 911 logs led LE to Rudy and/or terri not terri leading them to Rudy…- has this since been unproven?

You wrote:
Meanwhile, a woman who has not been charged for a damn thing, sits in her mother’s home, penniless, betrayed by her husband and friends, vilified nationwide by the media, and has not been able to see her precious child for over three years.

ME
january although it is true that she hasnt been charged there is a GJ going on and LE is still actively working the case…. and we must keep in mind for all we know terri may not even be LEs main focus she is however the only one we are aware of it seems….

i was one of the first to empathize with Terri saying PP I pray for her as I would not want to be in her shoes alone without money and friends family but the truth is she is not alone she has james she has her parents she has some of the best friends I have ever encountered even though De De says they were merely casual friends I say Posh as I know many many people even BFriends who would second guess running to a friends aid in terris predicament

I do not think she was betrayed by her husband or her friends I think kaine believed he was doing right by Kiara and Kyron- and he believed the MFHP can we blame him? and some friends will always be JUST fairweather friends- this isnt to say they betrayed her, and if betraying a friend is giving LE all info you know that MAY help them find a missing child or may even help to eliminate your friend as a suspect -then i suppose youd have to sign me up as a “betrayer” cuz i would be blatantly honest with LE – mum would not be in my vocabulary for who am I to stand in the way of a police investigation of a missing child?

You wrote:
To you Amy’s Sister and mom3.0, imagine yourselves, innocent, and placed in this position. I do.

Me again I have put myself in teris place that doesnt change the fact that none of us can say with any certainty what happened to Kyron and who may be involved- Nor does it help us to know if terri is “in the best interests of kiara” or if she is better off her her father…

the truth is IDK and you dont either- and we cant base Kiaras safety or this investigation on the thoughts of what we would feel like in her position IF she was innocent as we cant say we dont know shew might be guilty- we dont know….
and she did not fight the ro and she waited 3 years to now want custody and i am not comfortable in just saying yep ok 3 years is long enough= lets disregard the MH evaluations and take a chance that she is “in the best interests ” of s defensless child-

You wrote

I imagine the longing I would have for my child, and hers for me. If Kaira wasn’t part of the equation, I probably wouldn’t be as outraged, but she is.

me
I am just as outraged for James and Kyron and Kaine and desiree- this is all a shame but since I dont know and we dont know I can not say that it IS “in the best interests” of Kiara and if THAT makes me heartless to a mothers plight then – I dont know what to say other then- God forgive me

You wrote:
If any of your arguments that Terri might be culpable had proof or any factual basis behind them, I might be back on the fence.

Me
Respectfully January you may disagree with the thoughts and info I have shared but exctly what have I offered other than a countering opinion to the same set of facts that we all know as of now?

A jury is given the same set of facts and info but not every jury member interprets or weighs the evidence the same- where you may say oh well that proves >>> I on the other hand may say that tidbit does not convince me one way or another…

Does that mean that one of us is blatantly wrong (especially in regards to a circumstantial piece of evidence) NO it just means that we need to go back and review all the evidence to hopefully get a better perspective so that we dont send an innocent person to prison or a criminal back on the streets-

You wrote

But as it stands now, and unless LE charges Terri with something, She can’t be free of nightmare and have her child back in her arms quickly enough for me

–

Me

January, not every culprit is charged with the crime even when LE knows that they are in fact the culprit- people do infact get away with murder and as we know many disappearances of children are unsolved or go without an arrest or a sentence
That doesnt mean LEs got it wrong-

and No I am not saying Terri is the culprit or involved I am saying IDK and neither do you as we are not privy to all the evidence or lack there of- we dont know we are all just theorizing and swinging on that awful gate-

again since no one can rule terri out as having some involvement in kyrons abduction and since terri isnt submitting to thorough MHE then I think it is wise to withhold custody or to have the most stringent of supervised visitations put in place- as I for one do not want to rush to place Kiara back into her mothers open arms only to be mortified by my worst fears playing out on the morning news.

Thank you again January I truly appreciate you sharing your thoughts with me I respect them and I am not trying to change them
I am just looking at it from the other side of the fence as it were – not because I am “there” but because so many seem to forget there even is another side…

AJMO
Peace
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 11:38 am

@3.0. wrt “that LE would try to frame the stepmom with this ruse-”
Rather than “frame,” I consider the “sting” an “entrapment.”
Long used in drug cases (note a DEA’s involvement), also frequently
used at that time by the FBI Field Office (its was head very involved in Kyron’s case),
in Portland with “terrorism” “possibles” who’d not risen yet to level of “suspects,”
drawing national media attention for local LE “methods.” In selecting “possibles”
to “entrap,” the FBI Office head at that time in Portland, & other cities the then Field Director had worked
in, relied on sketchy informants like RS all the time (and paid them).
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-kyron-horman-investigation-exclusive-dede-spicher-interview-yields-allegations-of-illegal-steroid-use-terri-horman-took-to-police/#comments
grasshopper says:

November 21, 2013 at 12:14 pm

#16, last sentence should say nobody could have “expected” not expiated. spell check can be so creative
A Texas Grandfather says:

November 21, 2013 at 12:40 pm

There seems to be a problem about proper identification of Kyron. While it is likely that those who did not see him daily at the school may have the problem, school personnel should not.

Teachers quickly learn to identify children by sight and mannerisms. Having spent eight years teaching middle and high school students, I knew where every child belonged in a middle school of 600 plus and a high school of nearly 1,000. I may not have known all of their names, but I did recognize what class and who their teachers were. Many teachers have the ability to remember names of most of the students in a school. Many custodial people can do the same about I.D.

T. Ruth identified a male teacher who resigned and left the school district on June 5th in her post #45 on the previous page. There may be nothing to this resignation, but it should have been checked out by LE. As I read her description of the event, it appears that he was only at the school a year. School contracts are often yearly contracts and teachers may find another district to work in. The school district also has the right to not renew a contract if they think the person is not doing quality work. I realize that PPS is mostly a union shop, but maybe not all teachers belong to the union.

PPS is in a situation of a shrinking school district. They have a major problem in leadership IMO. There seems to be a lot of strange relationships at the district level. Such as a GC that also acts as the secretary to the School Board.
T. Ruth says:

November 21, 2013 at 1:37 pm

“In law enforcement, a sting operation is a deceptive operation designed to catch a person committing a crime. A typical sting will have a law-enforcement officer or cooperative member of the public play a role as criminal partner or potential victim and go along with a suspect’s actions to gather evidence of the suspect’s wrongdoing.

Sting operations are common in many countries including the United States, but not allowed in other countries such as Sweden.[1]

(snipped)

Entrapment is typically only a defense if a suspect is pressured into committing a crime they would probably not have committed otherwise, though the legal definition of this pressure varies greatly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. For example, if undercover officers coerced a potential suspect into manufacturing illegal drugs to sell them, then the accused could use entrapment as a defense. However, if a suspect is already manufacturing drugs and police pose as buyers to catch him, then entrapment usually has not occurred.”
*****************

Key word above “deceptive”.

“Definition:

Deception, beguilement, deceit, bluff, mystification and subterfuge are acts to propagate beliefs that are not true, or not the whole truth (as in half-truths or omission). Deception can involve dissimulation, propaganda, and sleight of hand, as well as distraction, camouflage, or concealment. There is also
self-deception, as in bad faith.

(snipped)

Deception includes several types of communications or omissions that serve to distort or omit the complete truth. Deception itself is intentionally managing verbal and/or nonverbal messages so that the message receiver will believe in a way that the message sender knows is false. Intent is critical with regard to deception. Intent differentiates between deception and an honest mistake. The Interpersonal Deception Theory explores the interrelation between communicative context and sender and receiver cognitions and behaviors in deceptive exchanges.

The five primary forms of deception are:[citation needed]

Lies: making up information or giving information that is the opposite or very different from the truth.[2]
Equivocations: making an indirect, ambiguous, or contradictory statement.
Concealments: omitting information that is important or relevant to the given context, or engaging in behavior that helps hide relevant information.
Exaggerations: overstatement or stretching the truth to a degree.
Understatements: minimization or downplaying aspects of the truth.[1]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sting_operation

I know it’s wiki, but IMO, the sting would not be considered entrapment, but a deceptive sting operation in order to gain evidence of a crime.

Let’s face it, LE has been deceptive in this case. Terri’s court papers presented to the Judge say exactly that; that LE was disseminating false information:

“Bunch further argues that Kaine Horman and police have “perpetuated the dissemination of inaccurate information” about the circumstances of Kyron’s disappearance, according to court papers.”

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/09/lawyers_to_argue_over_what_inf.html

Does this not tell us that BunchofHouzes now have evidence of this deception? I think that’s what they’re saying loud and clear.
Because of the RO being dropped and visitation hearings going forward, I believe that the disseminated inaccurate information that BunchofHouzes refers to was not only the MFH, but that there was never any evidence Terri had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance. Makes sense to me. (Remember Kaine’s quote about mounting or increasing evidence of Terri’s involvement of Kyron’s disappearance?) JMO….deception.

I guess I have a hard time understanding why some have a hard time believing that LE uses deception to try to force a case, or force someone into giving a false confession. They tell people they failed LDT’s to push their buttons, or tell them they passed when they really have suspicious results. They’re notorious for playing one suspect against another. Deception, happens all the time. And IMO, LE & KH are not the only people who have been deceptive in this case. (Is, deceptive a better word than lying, IDK?)
erose says:

November 21, 2013 at 1:43 pm

@ATG, I agree that the math/science teacher should have been checked out, and has always been on my list of possibles. It would be interesting to know if he left with a job already lined up, or if he just left. The trouble I have with the full time staff is what they would have done with a child in the interim of the school day. Either they would have incapacitated and kept the child on site, or they would have had to stash the child off site, and return to the off site location during the state wide search, not to mention leave and return to the school without being missed.
T. Ruth says:

November 21, 2013 at 2:11 pm

“Portland police contract proposal to ease up on steroids is compromise, city official says”

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/11/portland_police_contract_propo.html

I just loved this person’s comment on the above article:

npdxbiker
9 Hours Ago
I’ve got a compromise: officers that take unlabeled pills and really “have no idea what is in them” should be fired on the spot for stupidity. Ones that really do know but “wink, it isn’t on the package so I have no idea” can be fired on the spot for lying. And ones that do know, can be fired for drug use. My compromise is that after they test positive, they get to pick which reason they are going to be fired for…

**********
LMAO
T. Ruth says:

November 21, 2013 at 2:56 pm

FTR, Houzes’ *response* on a request from Dr. Phil to do an interview with Terri:

http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/2069/

Statement from Terri’s Attorney
Terri Horman declined to be interviewed, but her attorney, Steve Houze, provided this statement:

“I am writing in reply to your email requesting an interview with my client, Ms. Horman. Because there is a pending legal matter, the ethical rules of our profession do not permit party, or counsel, to such a pending matter to make public comments on the merits of the matter.”

Interesting choice of words “ethical rules of our profession do not permity party, or counsel”. Hmmmm. Pending legal matter=divorce? Will be considered unethical for KH to be there? I wonder why his attorney didn’t find it unethical?

Kaine is a party under that scenario and no way Engel knew he was doing that until after he appeared- or at least he did not know the format- I know Kaine did not. He found out just before his appearance.
B
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 3:17 pm

@TRuth. In an interview on the McStaythread, Chase M said after taking a LDT to asvance the investigation, against the advice of everyone including his attorney, who was present during the test, he was told it had “inconsistencies.” Since he knew he was truthful, he discounted that verbal outcome as LE deception to pressure him. I am summarizing from memory, so my words, not his.
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 3:19 pm

the odd thing in the Kyron case is not LE deception, if
it occurred, wrt TH & her verbal LDT report, it is the orchestrated
use of the media to turn her into the defacto suspect.

I agree overall, but I definitely believe that the initial lie was to Kaine, which was not public, to employee his compliance or participation.

Eventually, I would surely like to know what it takes to turn a spouse into an agent of the state and rip a child from it’s mom.
B
RedRose says:

November 21, 2013 at 3:20 pm

@Rose says:November 21, 2013 at 1:22 am
Quote from Blink in this msg:
” No doubt in my mind from a cursory glance, sighting from the side or retrospective half-memory that could happen. I repeat- I thought this child was Kyron when I first saw the image.”

~~~~

Me: Has anyone wondered if perhaps SZ wanted the Kyron look-alike and grabbed Kyron instead, disabled him, took him to wherever, and then realized they had the wrong little boy/Kyron (by which time it was too late)? In other words, SZ might have been after someone else?

Not sure, but I think Blink thought it was a random grab – or is this right?

RedRose- I never said Ky was a random grab- I don’t know that answer. He may have been the only kid surveyed by SZ to take the bait, or he could have been targeted him specifically. What I am comfortable saying is that there is no evidence I am aware of ( and I would be in a unique position to verify this) that the child who resembles him was the target. As I decided to mention- I do think it possible the resemblance could skew witness accounts for anyone that did not know Ky on sight- and may have been shown his pic.

But originally, when I saw the image, obviously it was my first priority to exclude it.
B
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 3:24 pm

@TRuth. TY for distinguishing deception & entrapment wrt a “sting.”
Iirc accusations leveled at FBI in that Region at that time were whether “entrapment”
was used, not mere deception. I think what LE did in TH’s “sting” rose to the level of
entrapment, but failed.
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 3:30 pm

@ATG. I don’t recall that Mastin was a probationary teacher at Skyline like Terrones & Porter had been the preceding 3 years. Therefore to not renew him, if PPS’ choice, must have taken “cause” so great that the Union would not fight it. Perhaps it was simply his decision to move, likely made in the Spring. Iirc PPS’ school Board voted yearly, from March to May, on renewals for the next year, but in 2010 that vote was later like May or June, due to budget issues impacting staffing.
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 3:53 pm

father died in late 2008.
mother & sister’s family reside in Albuquerque.
By spring, Mastin would’ve been locked into teaching in Portland in 09-10. Then, free to move.
http://broussards1889.com/mobile2/obituary.asp?locid=&id=4982
His age, 56, likely means he’d taught before.
A Texas Grandfather says:

November 21, 2013 at 5:15 pm

erose

We have no knowledge regarding how teachers were allowed or not allowed to leave the school for break times or lunch. Many rural schools in small communities allow teachers to leave the school to go get supplies, food or other things. It would only take ten minutes to meet another person and make a transfer. Just a possibility.
grasshopper says:

November 21, 2013 at 5:55 pm

Mom3.0 says
This is where I am angered at terri -justified or not -is that she did lawyer up and she did not immediately gve up her laptop and she was angered over her privacy- and I get that doesnt mean squat to her having done anything to kyron but as a Mom- I say what did she do for him?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Perhaps you have forgotten that Terri spent hours and hours and hours talking to LE. She made herself available in every way including polygraphs, all without an attorney. She didn’t “lawyer up” until AFTER the sting attempt and the RO based on Kaine stating LE had probable cause for MFH. that’s a crime. She needed a lawyer at that point. What did she do for Kyron? She did flyers, she talked to friends, she was fully cooperative with LE for 3 weeks until they made it plain she was in their frame. She did everything in her power to help find Kyron. Even her silence since then is more helpful to finding Kyron than the endless performances by K & D.

As for privacy and her laptop, losing her privacy, I haven’t heard that Kaine gave up his laptop. His current affair at that time, his steroid use, probably other things that he would prefer to remain private WERE kept private. nothing of his actions was leaked to the press. He was allowed to tell his story as he liked. Double standard?

It is clear that you genuinely believe you are undecided, giving T the benefit of the doubt, insisting that you aren’t calling her guilty, but it is CRYSTAL CLEAR to any reader from your assumptions, you sympathies and explanations that you do believe T guilty, you admire and have great respect for Kaine, and believe K and D are the victims, not only of Kyron’s disappearance but of T. Your remarks suggest that you continue to trust LE, that they have the evidence, just saving it up, that everything they have done is justified. IOW, your insistence that you are on the fence does not ring true.
grasshopper says:

November 21, 2013 at 5:58 pm

Did somebody say that Matthews retired? if so, when? was she at retirement age? for some reason I have always assumed she was young!
grasshopper says:

November 21, 2013 at 6:09 pm

Something to think about. T has been placed in a situation where she has been prohibited by the state from seeing her daughter, is isolated from friends, cannot go out in public for fear of invasive news people, members of the public who hater because of stories told by other people facilitated by LE/DA. She cannot have a job because of harassment due to the same reasons. She has received death threats due to these same beliefs by the public facilitated by LE’s statements. Notice that this definition does not specify a difference between guilty and not guilty but focuses on the method by the State. everything after the tilda line is quote from the website.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Defining torture

The most widely accepted definition of torture internationally is that set out by Article 1 of the United Nations Convention Against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (UNCAT):

“… ‘torture’ means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.”

From this definition, it can be said that torture is the intentional infliction of severe mental or physical pain or suffering by or with the consent of the state authorities for a specific purpose.

Torture is often used to punish, to obtain information or a confession, to take revenge on a person or persons or create terror and fear within a population.
Some of the most common methods of physical torture include beating, electric shocks, stretching, submersion, suffocation, burns, rape and sexual assault.

Psychological forms of torture and ill-treatment, which very often have the most long-lasting consequences for victims, commonly include: isolation, threats, humiliation, mock executions, mock amputations, and witnessing the torture of others.

Ratification of the Convention obligates governments to assert responsibility for the prevention of torture and the redress for victims of torture. While the global fight requires the active support of all people, the government of a given territory is ultimately responsible for any torture that occurs within its boundaries. Individual governments, therefore, must take it upon themselves to take part in the struggle against torture. Ratification of the Convention is often a necessary first step in this process.

(more info at website)
http://www.irct.org/what-is-torture/defining-torture.aspx
RedRose says:

November 21, 2013 at 6:36 pm

*snark* Dumbness on the part of the spouse??
or grieving desperation? IDK

All too sad.

@Rose says: November 21, 2013 at 3:19 pm

Quote from B:
Eventually, I would surely like to know what it takes to turn a spouse into an agent of the state and rip a child from it’s mom.
B
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 7:35 pm

@Blink. Well, my guess is the initial LEdeception was to the general public telling them not to worry, this was an isolated incident. The second deception was by LE treating this publically as a “wandered away” search, when it was a recovery search. The third LE deception imo was telling TMH her polys showed inconsistencies. The 4th deception, to KH, which you reference, likely predated the sting because by the time LE got that far, KH & she were fighting based on suspicions created in his mind by LE wrt her.
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 7:43 pm

@ Grasshopper. I called her retired. Thought she was older. I have no url.
I thought she left PPS. I don’t think Kyron’s abduction was sufficient by any means
to secure that unless she left voluntarily.

Our current neighborhood public eled principal was
visibly one of the world’s worst from Day 1. She followed The Best on objective
measures, to her detriment. PTA Pres, more than one, for her first 2-3 years,
used to tell me those first years they hoped she’d crack up
on the job to make it easier to get rid of her. Her Supv was intransigent, & everyone
thought she was his teacher wife’s friend. 8 years later, the She is still there.
Never underestimate a public school district’s ability to protect their own.
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 7:53 pm

I assumed KH’s appearance on Dr P was motivated by the need to get DY talking to him & cooperative during his divorce wrt to her public speech & private testimony. And, Indeed she & her tribe have been quiet of late. I did not think him motivated by money. He has income & Foundation. So I felt it the motivation of a bio reapproachmont, as well as advertising re Kyron’s abduction. On the other hand, I thought it was DY & tribe who lobbied for the spot & enlisted his presence. Just my impressions from general reading. Please correct my impressions.
T. Ruth says:

November 21, 2013 at 8:07 pm

@grasshopper says:
November 20, 2013 at 11:35 pm

Excellent post and I agree.
T. Ruth says:

November 21, 2013 at 8:42 pm

I just can’t believe, no matter how focused LE became on TMH, that they have not, in 3 years, look into every teacher tied to that school. They did subpoena a list of all PPS employees, IIRC. I asked this before, maybe MbS knows, can LE get access to all the Skyline Employee’s records?
vw says:

November 21, 2013 at 8:49 pm

Just thought about this coverage of the contesting of the fapa and the dropping of the suit late July, 2013:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/07/kyron_hormans_mother_to_drop_c.html

snipped…..”Terri Horman’s lawyers pressed for the first time to contest it this year, and sent subpoenas last month to Kaine Horman and to sheriff’s Deputy Bobby O’Donnell, one of the lead investigators into Kyron’s disappearance. The subpoenas also sought any investigative documents that may have been provided to Kaine Horman that would support his allegations that Terri Horman “is being investigated by law enforcement for involvement in violent crimes.”

Now the H.of B. went pro-active BEFORE the suit officially was dropped, yet when the suit’s demise came up MCSO said:

“While the civil suit was of interest, it did not affect the course of action or goal of the investigation,” the sheriff’s statement said. “We continue to work with our investigative partners and the Multnomah County District Attorney’s Office as we maintain the case integrity, development of leads and information gathered through the course of the investigation.”

No more “investigative doors, and protecting of the witnesses”? What about the “…violent crimes” that Kaine’s lawyers had mentioned? MCSO’s statement lack’s any suggestion.

Leading the way to, of course, Rosenthall dropping (against protocol) the little tidbit about Dede coming before the grand jury.

Yet the GJ testimony was 20 days earlier ….. on the 10th of July.

Hmm….have to look at all the dates more closely, but from what I am seeing H&B did not wait until the 10th of July to set the contest in motion. In fact did it in June, according to the article.

They must have known very well that Dede wasn’t going to open any doors or have to be protected from her own “sting” on her old friend.

Just thinking about that “timing” thing again. As they say, “timing” is everything.
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 10:00 pm

Excuse me, why do you think Engel did not know
until after KH’s appearance, when Houze wasrequested
an interview beforehand?

Because of the standing protective order- I would advise against the tone of the appearance out of concern of it’s violation- and I feel Houze’s message was similar- But I might alter my opinion to plausible denial.

Totally on me, but I sense a disjoint in the Kaine Horman representation.
B
T. Ruth says:

November 21, 2013 at 10:49 pm

Sorta’ kinda’ O/T

I wonder what the people in countries like Sweden do when it is outlawed to perform a sting in order to solve a crime? What’s the crime rate in Sweden? Anyone know? Perhaps they just use the old adage “Seek & Ye shall find.” Just curious.
Rose says:

November 21, 2013 at 10:58 pm

(ps “excuse me” was not meant to be flippant nor querulous.
I genuinely wonder why Houze would be solicited re broadcast,
yet Rackner & co would not.)