Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued ©
S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime
DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman
In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher, she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court. Unofficially cleared, that is.
Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley, who have since refused all local media requests, would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.
Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide. While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously, her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.
As was proven not only by her recent polygraph, but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place, Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.
The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.
Stoy: So, in your estimation then, why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.
Spicher: I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons. I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with. He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc. I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name. As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order, she was also told that
Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that? I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.
Spicher: No. I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th. I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.
Stoy: ok, sorry, continue. So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?
Spicher: They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding. It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June, and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March. So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?
To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.
Stoy: Which was?
Spicher: At first, I think that they really believed I was involved, and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was, and my vehicle never left, nor did I. They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.
Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case, they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?
Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect. I never felt that way, but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever, but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.
Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?
Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did. To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning. I would ask like who do you mean, because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this. I was scared and it turned out it was good reason. I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.
Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice? Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that. People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies. I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative. In fact, Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly. So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.
Spicher: (laughs) Interesting. I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.
Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?
Spicher: No, do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?
Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?
Spicher: I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house. Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.
Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?
Spicher: That’s it, yes, him. Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?
Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through, and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you. If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information, I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?
Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.
Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back , considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work? What did your attorney say when you told him?
Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney, but to answer your question as to my opinion, I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction. After more thought, and other conversations, I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible. What is your opinion on it?
Stoy: I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece. Again, not wanting to temper your opinions as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did. Is that ok with you?
Spicher: Sure, thank you.
Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion. I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman. Is that correct?
Spicher: Correct, ok.
Stoy: Did they ask you this?
Spicher: Who is they? You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).
Stoy: Fair point, you’re right. The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor. Allow me to rephrase please. Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?
Spicher: Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?
Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?
Spicher: (laughs) touche’ . I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids. I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.
Stoy: Why shock you?
Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing” and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well, impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.
Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct? That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc. And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?
Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury. But yes, that is what she told me. I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her. To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement . I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case, but yes, they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are. But that is my assumption.
Stoy: Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home? Spicher: I am not sure about the exclusive use part, I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.
Stoy: Ok. Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory. By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.
Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.
Stoy: How would you know that?
Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request. She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids. I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.
Stoy: ok, understood, we will get back to that. I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.” Do you recall what year, even ballpark.
Spicher: I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005, and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.
Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine, I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help. Do you remember where you were during the conversation.
Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell, Terri had a lot of drama, and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know, we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.
Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?
Spicher: Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention. It was either during that call or at the lunch. Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.
Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?
Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.
Stoy: Got it. What did she say
Spicher: She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”. She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her. She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller. The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him. I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.
Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from? Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?
SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.
Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person? Sort of like… she gets approval to remain anonymous, she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?
Spicher: Yes, something like that. Except and again, we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out. The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact. From what I recall, I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.
Stoy: Understood, so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day, but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.
Spicher: Yes, I think so.
Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice. I don’t think so because she did not ask for any. So then what? Did Kaine find out?
Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy, and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day. If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember, that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.
Stoy: Ok. Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?
Spicher: Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed, it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing. She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office. We did.
Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what? Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served, in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le, but it would surprise me. Terri was always very family centric. She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing, this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.
Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: No, not at all.
Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?
Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper. He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.
Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting” and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”
Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.
Stoy: She specifically said the FBI, who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.
Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.
Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?
Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?
Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?
It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years. The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier. As a strong argument for the trickle down effect, Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle, was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report. A former Sheriff, Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications. The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place. Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.
In fact, Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.
MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.
The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell. O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.
There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.
In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week, it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.
It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan, the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.
Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.
After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption tipping other’s off in the alleged ring , Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso, Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested. The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike. The specifics of which were sealed by the court. It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.
Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids? How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?
“… Jackson, through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”
“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest. He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”
On June 3rd, 2010, approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance, Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.
From the Indictment:
Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden. Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products. Worden has never been charged.
Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and
841(b)( 1)(E).
The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).
The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin, a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.
According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.
From Buff To Puff
In contrast to Jackson, although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement, William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon” cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.
In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote, “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”
Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way. Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client, was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.
John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case, sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well. Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question. Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason. The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.
“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”
Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.
Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.
On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.
Andrew Millbrooke filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby, Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot. In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy. The suit is pending. A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion. Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].
With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against Traverso were dismissed this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.
Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation. Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.
As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .
Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.
However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids, but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.
“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.
“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.
He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.
At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”
S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.
The source, an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…” “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…” The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.
Reached for comment, Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.
A request for comment to Mr. Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.
More Questions Than Answers..
Following several hours of interviews with DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?
Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.
She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”
She was not.
Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself. Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.
Through Spicher, Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness” which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc, Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th. His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.
Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought. Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.
Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous. Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom, to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.
To her knowledge, there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.
In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.
Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:
“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”
Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators. One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer, at their own expense The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.
“… This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.
The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”
I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange. She had. I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.
Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion. Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.
I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home. She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.
Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?
Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.
Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper? I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen, and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.
Spicher: No, it wasn’t. Kaine bought it. It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property. I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home. I mean, like cleaning the gutters, cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing. To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.
Stoy: With a baby, 7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that? No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help. I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.
Spicher: No, Terri had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children. I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money. I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage. One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that. I believe the other was the landscaper.
Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.
Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that? But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.
Stoy: Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?
Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].
Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement. Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you. Are you angry about that?
Spicher: O my no. That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine. I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can.. I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them. I really pray that Kyron will be found, I choose to put my energy into hope for that.
Pending Matters
Through Attorney Bunch, Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday, Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.
Early this afternoon, a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.
A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013
Jacqueline Beaufort, Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.
Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.
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Rose says:
November 26, 2013 at 5:04 pm
Well, Eloise, wrt 911 calls in the matter of Kyron Horman.
if Fox12 can get the 911 voice recording of Carol,
it seems to me only fair play Kantor should let the 911 voice recordings of Terri into the divorce trial.
This was the main Fox news- that’s not 12 is it? -lol. But to your point- I agree- the information is obviously obtainable to those who wish to have it.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/11/kyron_hormans_mother_desiree_y_1.html#incart_river
Did you read this article, Blink?
Desiree & team went to Terri’s worksite to harass!
This is an aberrant reaction to porn picture id.
Idk what porn-abused child LE is trying to identify.
LE has no business showing pics from any source to a mentally unstable
mother who acts out to this extent. Show em to Kaine alone.
Alright, I am going to say it. That is flat out stalking.
In fact, it qualifies for a civil stalking restraining order, don’t take my word for it.
Read here:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcourts.oregon.gov%2FLane%2Fdocs%2FStalkingInstructionsupdated101707.pdf&ei=mTqVUrPOKO-1sATZr4GgBg&usg=AFQjCNEfM2PjTFKzXAJpmzhXEdeo-JEApQ&sig2=Y7MPHAB2NVHZiGPQXSCVdw&bvm=bv.57155469,d.cWc
In fact, if granted, the court may also require DY to undergo a mental health evaluation.
I sincerely hope Lynn Terry misquoted DY as to the “it will always be a surprise” comment. The irony.
Imo DA Underhill is culpable for this “investigative method” as he has the power
to get this case transferred out of mcso.
I don’t believe that is true Rose, I think they can take it from MCSO and own it themselves- as occurred in the MacNeill conviction but to my knowledge the law does not allow them to just reassign it, but I could be wrong.
Did you note the sentiment of the posters in comments on this incident across the board? Houze needs to capitalize on that upswing of support and protect his client. The statute is clear.
And for those humps that think it will be super cool to have a RO in your name cause DY does, or just “cuz”- wait until that effs with your employer, custody, credit, insurance and all other things they never thought about.
Just like the lady in the mint green pants bent over with her cannnnnnn in the camera. You know she regrets that.
B
and, if Kyron were
ever found on porn,
sure doesn’t mean Terri generated it.
There are other family members.
and teachers.
Url just above L Terry, OLive
wrt “With her youngest son still missing and her oldest just off to college, and yet another Thanksgiving and Christmas approaching, these are difficult days for the mother of Kyron Horman.”
When will Lynn Terry write this story:
with her oldest son off to the military rather than college where he’d be vulnerable to harassment, her youngest son missing, and having been severed from her toddler for 3 years involuntarily, and yet another Thanksgiving and Christmas approaching, these are difficult days for the stepmother of Kyron Horman as she weathers stalkers at her home and workplace.
It’s all in the journalistic POV. And Oregonian’s is consistant. Down the road, when she talks, I would never in a million years, in Terri’s shoes, give an interview to the Oregonian or local TV. Probably just Pitkin on special placement to WW.
If they have photos of rescued/porn kids to identify, they should sit down with LE in the presence of Houze and show Terri, because let’s face it, she saw him all the time and could offer the best response.
@Blink- Yea that is what I assumed and it breaks my heart that DY had to mentally prepare herself that she might about to see her son being abused like that. I hope that child is identified and rescued quickly
—–
Miss Bri says:
November 26, 2013 at 5:34 pm
Whoa this is interesting. I hope every one in Kyron’s family had a chance to look at the picture to see if they believe it’s Kyron, since so many years have gone by and he likely looks so different now.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/11/kyron_hormans_mother_desiree_y_1.html
Snipped
“This year is especially hard,” said Desiree Young, Kyron’s mom. “And every time I get a photo from law enforcement of a child I have to identify it’s even more difficult.”
Police asked Young to look at a new photo recently depicting a child resembling Kyron who’s alive and apparently living in the United States. Young wouldn’t divulge any details but said the child was not playing outside.”
Snipped
It is a child they are trying to identify via some porn freak or a child that was rescued they cant identify. That is brutal for sure.
B
Young said the group went to the place where Terri Horman now works, tacking up fliers and speaking to people about Kyron and Terri Horman.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/11/kyron_hormans_mother_desiree_y_1.html
Sounds like Terri got a job, er, uh had one anyway. If this does not qualify as harassment, I don’t know what is. Good grief.
@Rose says:
November 26, 2013 at 6:18 pm
If she writes it, won’t she be thrown of the team?
***************
It’s interesting that LE is showing Desiree photos of unidentified children (most likely from some porn), so what does Desiree think LE thinks when they are showing her this? Does she think LE thinks Terri sold Kyron into porn? Does she think LE thinks Terri hired and paid SZ to take Kyron and he sold him into porn?
Would love to hear what LE says to her when they show her these pictures. Why does Desiree believe Terri is connected to child porn?
I hope they find Kyron someday, but I have a feeling he is deceased. I still lean to prior abuse by someone and that someone silenced him. JMO, as Desiree would say, based mostly on my gut, and some of the events in this case. I hope I am wrong.
I agree with your post Rose, the two bio parents didn’t even realize Kyron had more than a few moles when they released his aged composite, and weren’t even mentioned until it was noted in the blogs.
http://www.wweek.com/portland/mobile/blogs/blogView/id:30953
I’m editorially endorsing Tom C’s 2nd comment
Rose says,
When will Lynn Terry write this story:
with her oldest son off to the military rather than college where he’d be vulnerable to harassment, her youngest son missing, and having been severed from her toddler for 3 years involuntarily, and yet another Thanksgiving and Christmas approaching, these are difficult days for the stepmother of Kyron Horman as she weathers stalkers at her home and workplace.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still wondering if pure chance that local media has endless sympathy for D and K, but none for the woman who spent more time with Kyron day in and day out than either D or K and who, as you say, lost this boy she treated as her own son and the daughter she gave birth to for no reason that we know of other than LE innuendo through K and D.
Upthread someone talked about the the agony D goes through but rarely is there acknowledgement of T’s agony, let alone sympathy for it. I hope the hearing in December will bring her some good news for christmas this year.
Rose, the last update by Staton was the announcement after Desiree’s announcement of dropping the civil suit:
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Mult-Co-Sheriffs-Ofc-Kyron-Case-Update-217667611.html
Before that the previous update I believe was November 27, 2012, when the civil suit was abated, just prior to DY & TY being deposed.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/multnomah_county_sheriff_cites.html
Rose says:
November 25, 2013 at 10:49 pm
@GraceintheHills Yes I too remember DY said she had a therapist. I assumed that was why Blink added the adjective “qualified.” Qualified to me means more than type of degree & training, years in the profession, or discipline. It means a match here, imo, with a high level of expertise, experience in what clinical assessment would suggest personality-wise, but also experience with severe traumatic injuries such as the death of a spouse or child, likely ptsd,
and particularly those situations where no closure is possible–out of the patient’s control. A forensic background would help as well. If DY were my daughter, that is what I’d push for her, and consider any ol msw or psyd a waste of money. Iirc, she referred to a generic counselor. I would have also pushed, if this were my adult child, she work with a criminal attorney as a consultant early on to navigate mcso & da’s approach to the investigation. Now those 2 human resources are what I would donate what I could to gofundme for.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rose, yes, you are preaching to someone in the choir who is uber aware of qualifications and the importance of a good “fit” when it comes to choosing a therapist. That said, I have often been most impressed over the years with therapists who don’t necessarily have the highest credentials, but have a natural gift for working with people. There are not any forensic therapists, per se. The primary focus in forensic training in psychology and psychiatry is becoming proficient in the various evaluations that are required in the courts, understanding the applicable statutes, and providing expert testimony.
DY did not specify the type of therapist she has been seeing, but iirc, she did mention that therapy is helping her.
Idahogal says:
November 26, 2013 at 9:35 am
DY and Co. staged another protest in Roseburg:
http://www.kptv.com/story/24069159/protesters-surround-terri-hormans-home-demanding-answers
________
I’ve always felt for Carol Moulton. She and Larry have suffered greatly from all of this. Hearing her voice touched my heart.
I don’t agree with Desiree’s actions at all. If Terri hasn’t talked, she’s not going to. If Desiree is acting this way IMO it indicates that she does not believe LE will be arresting Terri anytime soon.
I was glad to see she only had a few supporters willing to join her. I noted that there were not many supporters on the two FB pages against Terri, just the same handful of folks posting over and over.
Again- I so respect your view. Yes, DY specifically said LE cant solve this case and they wont arrest her. That is a clear impasse. I believe it can be construed as her reaction to recent developments for some-she is not prepared to admit publicly.
B
@Graceinthe hills,
the talk about therapists reminds me of the hallway presser Kaine did after one of the hearings. A reporter asked him what Kiara asks or says about her mother. Kaine said that she never asks, never mentions her. There were some further questions, but his remark that a therapist helped him handle the subject with Kiara “healthily” stunned me. How do you tell a very young child that her mother is permanently gone from her life, healthily? What therapist would cooperate with this cruelty? Surely therapists know that even convicted criminals are allowed to have visitation with children, let alone someone never charged. that conversation still freaks me out.
Idahogal says: I wish you all a most Happy Thanksgiving. I am thankful for many people and things in this life, but the best thing I can imagine is for Kyron to come home.
_____
My heart would soar as if it were my own child, I think.
Hope your Thanksgiving is filled with joy, Idahogal.
True Dat.
Fwiw- I believe Kyron has long been protected from the earthly mess going on in his name.
B
dy must be in need of attention after the Phil show has lasped. Seems shes after settling old scores rather than finding Kryon.
Miss Bri says:
November 26, 2013 at 5:34 pm
_______
I appreciate that Desiree is focused on setting up a child abduction response team. IMO every state should have multiple of these teams with high levels of training and the ability to move rapidly into place.
These are the places she can make a real difference.
Rose says: It’s all in the journalistic POV. And Oregonian’s is consistant. Down the road, when she talks, I would never in a million years, in Terri’s shoes, give an interview to the Oregonian or local TV. Probably just Pitkin on special placement to WW.
_____
She’ll go national then write a book. I have no doubt. When Terri is ready to talk the flood gates will open.
It appears to me that the court should order DY to be placed in a mental facility for a period of time. If she is seeing a therapist, they have not advised her of the consequences of the acts she just did against Terri. TY should have known about this behavior and warned DY not to do anything foolish such as this.
I feel sorry for all the others that in their misplaced altruism of helping, have placed themselves at risk by participating in two stalking events.
The recent international porn ring bust recovered over 300 children and probably found photos of many times that number. Why LE would limit that photo viewing to just the bio parents tells me that they never use quality methods of covering all bases.
Maybe I shouldn’t have watched “Prisoners” this past summer. (It was a very disturbing movie.) Looks to me like Desiree is getting desperate. Her comment about *I can’t get them to arrest her*, OMG, that movie is coming hauntingly back to me.
What’s next on her escalating agenda? It’s a scary thought. I understand her agony, though I have never been there and do not ever want to be there, but I do not understand her strategy.
What on earth does she think she’s going to accomplish with this same outright intimidation and harassing maneuvers, that in three and a half years has accomplished nothing? She needs to stop. Not stop looking for Kyron or at whatever she can dig up, but stop her outright stalking of an innocent person. Yes, I said innocent, because IIRC, one is innocent until proven guilty.
@GraceintheHills. I have long been aware both you & Beejay have forgotten more about clinical practice than I ever knew, & undoubtedly were higher credentialed. I always appreciate your insight.
I worked with colleagues that were at, or transferred to, John Howard Pavilion & Butner. And maintained private practices. It seens to me there must be west coast federal prisons with forensic practitioners maintaining private work as well.
Work in a fordnsic inpatient setting is not particularly kmportant wrt being a “qualified” therapist wrt DY, but such could perhaps help her envision the caliber of the crime & its perpetrator. I am not qualified to diagnose, and no professional can without a professional workup. But I can observe effects in social systems. Not limiting to Desiree; including 1 or more “teammates.”
What PD keeps systems in chaos? Craves attention (media too)? Splits into all good & all bad, with cut-offs? (thinking KH spent 3 years cut off as “all bad”; Terri cut off as “all bad”. Skirts the law. and so on.
on a continuum with preabduction history. I am including “followers,” who may in fact lead.
As far as I can see, Kyron’s abduction has lent a certain structure & focus to otherwise chaotic histories
@TRuth. TY. No MCSO comment since July 30,
and media goes to Roseburg, figuratively? Can someone
gin up sexual scandel so press looks at mcso?
Let me see, that’s what it took before with O’Donnell et al
@Grasshopper. wrt yr comment, “still wondering if pure chance that local media has endless sympathy for …”
2 words: Shallow and Sources.
work site + home + online + media appearances = stalking.
Where is that PI lawyer Wagner?
I’ve just had a chance to look at all the venues called, or happened upon the story of the stalking, once again, of Larry and Carol’s home in Roseburg, as well as the the workplace of TMH.
We’ve all seen this stalking before. The first concerted attempt to call attention to TMH’s “freedon” was in the spring of 2011. Desiree, at that time, was incensed at driving to Portland and seeing TMH going for a walk in Roseburg. That she was “allowed to breath the air when Kyron couldn’t” was enough to set off the first “frequent flyer” attack of Roseburg businesses and TMH’s home surroundings.
Subsequently, there were “mother’s day” protests in which “Kyron-supporters” camped out and held candle-lit vigils pleading for TMH to “tell the truth”.
What can we say about this latest attempt to garner support from the media? Despite the advance in obtaining legal visitation, if not partial custody, of Kiara.
In spite of the dropping of the civil suit and the backing down of the DA’s office?
In spite of Kantor’s recent decisions?
In spite of Kaine not showing up at the latest hearing and alledgedly requesting no more cameras?
In spite of Houze, repeatedly, referring to his client as “innocent”.
In spite of no current in court references to the MFH as having any validity whatsoever.
In spite of no reference, whatsoever, in Engel’s most passionate motions to “emails” that suggest a
“hatred” of Kyron.
One would think that DY would be watching the court proceedings.
One would think that DY’s “Kyron Warriors” were watching the court proceedings.
One would think that DY must know of the Dede interview with LE.
How could she not?
She commented on it specifically- disputing something about the phone purchases which showed me she is either receiving false information from LE or just making it up. Keep in mind it is my strong belief that LE expected DDS to fail her poly so I have to believe if they are still in touch with DY ( we know Herron was)they imparted that sentiment.
B
Rose says:
November 26, 2013 at 6:04 pm
(snip)
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/11/kyron_hormans_mother_desiree_y_1.html#incart_river
Did you read this article, Blink?
Desiree & team went to Terri’s worksite to harass!
(end snip)
~~~~~~~~~~~
(snip of Blinks response)
Alright, I am going to say it. That is flat out stalking.
In fact, it qualifies for a civil stalking restraining order, don’t take my word for it.
(end snip)
~~~~~~~~~~~~
wow … just wow.
This is truly disturbing.
The escalation by Desiree, and her publicly sanctioned association with the hate-group @ FB’s “Kyron’s World Soldiers”, and other anti- Terri/DD hate groups on the web —-> is really scary.
It’s been scary … but is really off the rails and over any the line.
Desiree with a big smile, holding her grande cup ‘o coffee in front of the Moulton home, and now being reported this group of loons are also holding these HATE ASSEMBLIES at Terri’s workplace.
Just despicable.
The comments section from this article and also on the FB hate groups are absolutely chilling.
Anyone that would join one of these poorly misguided groups … well this REALLY worries me about Terri’s safety.
The undertone/innuendo of some of the comments suggest some of these loons aren’t playing with a full deck.
Notice the O-Live’s “Lynne Terry” used the phrase … “until her son’s found, Young will SOLDIER on”
“Kyrons World Soldiers” —>> “Young will soldier on”.
geez … “Lynne Terry”/O-Live – got your head up the ass of the Terri hate train much??!!
As Blink says … this is flat-out STALKING.
I pray Houze and associates have or are immediately retaining personal protection for Terri and her parents.
These hate-groups regularly post when & where Terri is.
I fear that Desiree continuing to stir up those hate groups could result in serious physical danger to Terri & the Moultans. One loose cannon among these hyped-up hate mongers and, well, … I truly fear for Terri.
Besides on-site personal protection … House and associates need to get an anti stalking order ASAP.
Just beyond belief this is continuing to be allowed to happen.
Shame!
The people that expect TH “to talk” have not (some will not) consider that there is more than one reason a person will not talk. It is possible that TH, in those first three weeks, told investigators everything and has nothing more of value to add in finding Kyron. Obviously she has been advised not to talk, but guaranteed, if she had anything to add, all she has to do is inform her attorney.
Assume TH is guilty, or has self incriminating information wrt Kyron’s whereabouts, do these people think this is the way to get the information out of her? Do they expect her to walk out of the house and get in the car and have them follow her to Kyron? Do they think if a person is capable of harming a child is going to buckle at the sight of chalk and poster boards? What is the end game here, finding Kyron or expressing hate?
The best course of action, which I believe Blink stated way back when, is to offer TH immunity. The longer this goes on, the more their case seems hollow and the more innocent she looks. If she is guilty, soon, she will have no reason to accept and kind of deal. Do they want to find Kyron, or punish TH, because it looks like they cannot have both, and might not get either.
And there is the possibility, if she is innocent, she might have something to offer and not realize it.
i am very concerned and disturbed over DY’s latest attempt to smear Terri’s name. This is most definitely stalking and harassment. I feel compassion for Desiree but I have grave concerns for her mental health, it seems that her behaviors have been escalating. I believe TMH should file a restraining order. I would if I were her, I’m not sure what her legal team will advise her of, but I would think given the situation they should go for it, unless they think its going to backfire in the court of public opinion by the DY gang and their media connections. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be much hard hitting journalism and investigative reporting going on in portland lately
She is married to a LEO- that gives her automatic access to firearms under the law- and TMH may not possess any. If they have a concern about public sentiment I can assure you they are monitoring blogs and comments on the matter.
I am finding an overwhelming amount of posters are outraged over it outside of the hater crater set that were likely in on it.
I am painfully reserving comment on her statement about developing a child abduction response team in medford out of respect.
B
DY needs TMH to be involved. As long as she believes that TMH knows what happened then there is a chance that TMH will slip up or confess, and DY can recover her child.
If K was taken by a pseudo-random stranger, then more likely this case will not be resolved, unless the perp is arrested for a different crime.
I wonder what Houze’s strategy will be in this matter. It would appear quite easy to get a restraining order, but, in doing so, could create the impression of the evil stepmother “hiding behind a restraining order”, which some would interpret as yet more incontrovertible proof of TMH’s guilt.
Houze is historically very low key. The issue here is that Bunch is on the record stating concerns about the evaluator being subject to more recent media influence, iirc. So the question becomes- what is the burden on the current pending matters should they seek a civil RO, and what is the burden to the client from an advisory perspective. If there is a concern for TMH safety, safety and well being of Kiara when in her presence, and a concern for her ability to maintain unencumbered employment, they are obligated to advise TMH of those concerns and any remedy. Ultimately it is her call, but as I pointed out yesterday, the Moulton’s would be within their rights to seek one potentially, and it would cover TMH and immediate family.
If this is the first time they called LE, and Mr. Moulton was outside taking pictures I have to believe that was after they consulted with HouzeofBunch so I would offer that they would need a police report to file for an RO. From an earnings and stability perspective, TMH does have the obligation to mitigate damages- but again, this just goes to help TMH prove limited earning capacity.
Throw in I feel strongly both Bunch and Houze believe TMH is innocent, not to be confused with not-prosecutable, but innocent so therefore wrongly accused in the first place. Unless DY did this specifically to exclude herself from the evaluation for some purpose that would harm TMH position in it, I say they have to file it and will likely result in excluding her if not completely rendering anything she offered as the rantings of bitter contempt. Which would violate the order potentially. I say they have to file one.
B
Rose says:
November 27, 2013 at 12:26 am
work site + home + online + media appearances = stalking.
Where is that PI lawyer Wagner?
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All I can think of is that they want to get this divorce over with particularly in regard to custody. I’m guessing (hoping!) that then the floodgates will open to call many to accountability. In one of the hearings Houze said they would bring witnesses that have been deposed to that final trial (June). Much should be revealed that way and hopefully that will set the stage for more revelations. MOO.
I find this stalking of TMH sick and scary. Worse even because DY is married to LE.
WTH is going on. Rhetorical. This is nuts.
erose says:
November 27, 2013 at 4:48 am
Erose says: Assume TH is guilty, or has self incriminating information wrt Kyron’s whereabouts, do these people think this is the way to get the information out of her? Do they expect her to walk out of the house and get in the car and have them follow her to Kyron? Do they think if a person is capable of harming a child is going to buckle at the sight of chalk and poster boards? What is the end game here, finding Kyron or expressing hate?
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Hi Erose, I am not saying I agree with her tactics, but I think that DY’s actions are more of an attempt to keep Kyron’s name in the news, than simply pester or “hate on” TH. DY knows that TH has a lawyer and that people with lawyers don’t usually confess all before they are indicted. But, I think one of her worst fears is that this case will grow cold and she will never have answers. If I were in her shoes, I would probably be pestering the h*ll out of MCSO because, quite frankly, the squeakiest wheel still usually gets the most grease. It is possible, since all of us know so LITTLE of what is going on behind the scenes in this case, DY is already applying pressure to MCSO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erose says, The best course of action, which I believe Blink stated way back when, is to offer TH immunity. The longer this goes on, the more their case seems hollow and the more innocent she looks. If she is guilty, soon, she will have no reason to accept and kind of deal. Do they want to find Kyron, or punish TH, because it looks like they cannot have both, and might not get either.
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Me: I’m not sure about the best course of action because none of us know what evidence the prosecutor has. In many cases that are worked as conspiracies, LE/DA are more interested in putting the person who initiates the conspiracy behind bars than the person who carried out the crime. I do agree that the longer this goes on, the less focused the public is on TH. Not true with LE. Whatever circumstantial evidence they may have of her involvement in the case, the evidence will always be there even if the case goes cold. So, if years from now this case is picked up by a cold case squad, she will still be on the radar screen unless more evidence of an independent perp is uncovered and that evidence points away from her.
Does anyone here know *exactly* what DY and her supporters did at TH’s workplace? I cannot imagine any business letting them come onto the property and disrupt their employees’ work.
A RO is always a possibility, but I am not sure Houze wants to add another layer of litigation on top of this already very convoluted case. But, who knows?
All is MOO.
Blink, I hope you and all the posters here have a safe and happy Thanksgiving. If only Kyron could be here to celebrate with his family.
We learned about the workplace event from DY. I know where she works, and limited research yielded no police call I could locate.
I have to look to what the prosecutor deemed their biggest witness who was withholding information about their prime suspect, TMH. I am comfortable in making the assumption that if that was their case lifeline, providing immunity for TMH is a solid strategy- similar to DDS, to get this case back on track.
I know the shitstorm it created in the wake of DDS, and the first reaction was to ask to help them entrap TMH from a person that had not spoken to her in years, is represented and had limited interaction leading up to June 4th, 2010.
All this occurring immediately after the witness they gave a deal thinking she would say something different as a result.
I do not believe they have any evidence against TMH that they could not find similarly against TY, DY, or KH. Translation: unless they are willing to scrap this and start over- they have no desire for anyone to know that TMH knows nothing or if she does- then what? We are talking about millions of dollars in an already scrutinized mess of an investigation where atty’s are presenting the issue that LE lied to cause the severe.
The pressure for an arrest in this case is monumental to almost everyone in an official capacity and on it’s second and empaneled grand jury.
Rees et al lost their bids to stay, or to intervene, and DY dropped her suit.
I respectfully submit she did that because she was made aware that if it continued TMH would file a counter suit, directed verdict or judgement to include legal fees and damages. The way that suit was filed- specifically as to the background/narrative had knowledge going in was in bad faith- meritless.
My commitment to all: if this offender is ultimately apprehended by harming another child, At my expense, I am going to board a plane to Portland and spend days requesting interviews from every principal in this case and if I cant get them, I will report from every office location and stream it live.
That eats at me more than anything in every case I ever work on- when something is preventable and due to some action it is not.
B
erose says: November 27, 2013 at 4:48 am
Exactly my thoughts erose. Similar to DeDe who talked during the first few weeks, yet was subject to harassment by taking the 5th after she became part of the “witch-hunt.” In the end she passed a poly stating exactly what she’d said in the beginning.
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The people that expect TH “to talk” have not (some will not) consider that there is more than one reason a person will not talk. It is possible that TH, in those first three weeks, told investigators everything and has nothing more of value to add in finding Kyron. Obviously she has been advised not to talk, but guaranteed, if she had anything to add, all she has to do is inform her attorney.
Blink, I am not understanding why you think DY would be called to testify in TH and KH’s custody hearing. Ex-wives, in my experience, are rarely called as they often have very little to add and can be inflammatory.
She is not a party to the case, but her interview for evaluations currently underway were discussed in open court last hearing. It was not clear outside of the standard collateralls to me why she would, but it is up to the evaluator and a co-parenting situation would definitely be a consideration in this case.
Specifically- Kantor rebuked Engel that he does not represent DY and that he has no idea what she might say to an evaluator. I can only assume she is listed on some document indicating she will be interviewed.
B
grasshopper says:
November 27, 2013 at 10:19 am
Grasshopper says: All I can think of is that they want to get this divorce over with particularly in regard to custody. I’m guessing (hoping!) that then the floodgates will open to call many to accountability. In one of the hearings Houze said they would bring witnesses that have been deposed to that final trial (June). Much should be revealed that way and hopefully that will set the stage for more revelations. MOO.
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Grasshopper, I think all of the dirty laundry in the Hormans’ marriage will be aired, but virtually nothing about the criminal investigation. JMO.
grasshopper says:
November 26, 2013 at 10:37 pm
@Graceinthe hills,
the talk about therapists reminds me of the hallway presser Kaine did after one of the hearings. A reporter asked him what Kiara asks or says about her mother. Kaine said that she never asks, never mentions her. There were some further questions, but his remark that a therapist helped him handle the subject with Kiara “healthily” stunned me. How do you tell a very young child that her mother is permanently gone from her life, healthily? What therapist would cooperate with this cruelty? Surely therapists know that even convicted criminals are allowed to have visitation with children, let alone someone never charged. that conversation still freaks me out.
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@GH, I don’t find it stunning to think that KH sought a therapist for Kiara to help her with the separation from her mother. Any good father would do so. I would think much less of him if he hadn’t.
Hi Blink, I am aware of the hater crater comprised of DY supporters on FB, but also aware of the hater crater who support TMH on the Oregon Live site and other blogs. I posted on Oregon live in the beginning of this case, but left because so many on that site were so incredibly nasty to ANYONE who supported DY and KH. Imo, both sides have behaved badly in this case.
I can’t say that I have seen that type of behavior across both lines to the extent I am referring to- where they are meeting publicly to harass or stalk, but I do not spend much time on such things unless it is brought to my attention.
The difference to me is, DY is actively participating and supporting it.
Do posters who started out with limited social skills anyway act like nitwits on both sides? Of course.
B
What DY said on Dr. Phil is very telling to me. I transcribed this from the show. This is at the end of the video clip where the attorney talks about direct evidence pointing away from Terri.
Dr. Phil: “What would you want them to do that they haven’t done?”
DY: “Find Kyron. If we’re not looking for Kyron, we’re not going to find him. And if we can’t prosecute Terri for this until we find Kyron, then obviously we need to find Kyron.”
Regarding her last sentence, this thinking is backward, imo. I wish she had stopped at saying “Find Kyron”. I don’t doubt she wants to find Kyron for the sake of finding Kyron, but it’s always tied to some punishment of Terri. I think CD asked a very good question about which is more important to her, what the priority is.
I greatly fear for Terri and her family and hope Mr. Houze is taking steps to protect her.
GraceintheHills says:
November 27, 2013 at 12:35 pm
Blink, I am not understanding why you think DY would be called to testify in TH and KH’s custody hearing. Ex-wives, in my experience, are rarely called as they often have very little to add and can be inflammatory.
She is not a party to the case, but her interview for evaluations currently underway were discussed in open court last hearing. It was not clear outside of the standard collateralls to me why she would, but it is up to the evaluator and a co-parenting situation would definitely be a consideration in this case.
Specifically- Kantor rebuked Engel that he does not represent DY and that he has no idea what she might say to an evaluator. I can only assume she is listed on some document indicating she will be interviewed.
B
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Of course she would not be a party; it is the Hormans’ divorce and custody matter. I am aware that her name was brought up in court, but I cannot imagine either side would be foolish (or reckless) enough to call her.
This brings me back to what professionals refer to as the “VIP Syndrome”. The literature has shown that the higher the profile (of the case, defendant or patient), the more likely the professionals involved are to breech professional boundaries, standards of practice and ethics. The Jodi Arias case is a good example if you look at the expert witnesses and their “be-friending” of the defendant.
KATE SNOW: Was she a good mother?
DESIREE YOUNG: I wouldn’t say she would replace me, obviously, but she definitely gave him what he needed.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38420266/ns/da
Maybe if Desiree is being called for deposition or testimony in the divorce case, they want her to expand on the above opinion. ???
GraceintheHills says:
November 27, 2013 at 12:29 pm
Me: Does anyone here know *exactly* what DY and her supporters did at TH’s workplace? I cannot imagine any business letting them come onto the property and disrupt their employees’ work.
Blink says, We learned about the workplace event from DY. I know where she works, and limited research yielded no police call I could locate.
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Hi Blink, I understand that we learned of the workplace event from DY. I am asking if anyone here has more information regarding exactly what happened there. I would think if any employer allowed this to event on the company’s grounds, his/her behavior could be perceived as complicit.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38420266/ns/da
I see Houze gave a similar response to Dateline that he did on Dr. Phil. :
Spicher has not commented publicly, and police have not labeled her or anyone else a person of interest or a suspect in the case. In family court recently, Terri Horman’s attorney, Stephen Houze, called the speculation surrounding Terri a witch hunt and said she’s received threats. Dateline asked Terri and her attorney for an interview. Mr. Houze said in a letter to DATELINE it would be a “violation of clear ethical standards” for him to respond. He wrote, “There are matters currently pending before an Oregon court concerning Ms. Horman. No party or attorney may make public comments intended to influence the outcome of a matter pending before a court.”
And Kaine Horman is for now done talking about his soon-to-be ex-wife.
***********
(Of course we know the last sentence did not happen. LOL)
It is interesting to review this interview, because basically it says that not only Kaine, but Desiree & Tony, became absolutely convinced that Terri was guilty based upon the MFH allegation:
Kaine says police informed him of a harrowing discovery. About six months before Kyron went missing, Kaine’s wife, Terri, had allegedly tried to hire a landscaper to kill him. Kaine opened up to Dateline about the allegation.
KATE SNOW: You’ve been informed that she was trying to hire someone to murder you?
KAINE HORMAN: Mm-hmm. I didn’t believe it at first. It was something that I couldn’t even wrap my head around at the time. Just thought…
KATE SNOW: There had been no indication in your marriage –
KAINE HORMAN: No.
KATE SNOW: – that things were that bad or that she was upset with you?
KAINE HORMAN: No.
Kaine has said there were more ups and downs in his marriage to Terri after the birth of their daughter 20 months ago. Still, Kaine says he never saw something like this coming.
KAINE HORMAN: Nothing so far one way or the other that would have even put that on my radar screen as something to worry about.
It was a pivotal moment for Kaine, the moment he stopped trusting his own wife, the woman who’d been helping raise his children. Authorities are still investigating the alleged murder-for-hire attempt, but if the allegation against Terri is true, many think it speaks volume about the mission to find Kyron.
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KATE SNOW: Do you think she is capable of hurting a child?
KAINE HORMAN: If you asked me before this situation, my answer’s no. Based on what I know now, I don’t know. I think anything is possible based on the way things have gone over the past few weeks.
KATE SNOW: You fear for your safety now, Kaine? For your daughter?
KAINE HORMAN: I fear for my daughter.
While Kaine doesn’t say why Terri or anyone else might want to harm him or Kyron, the shocking allegation that his wife had tried to have him killed caused a dramatic shift in his thinking. Reeling from the news, he now believes Terri is somehow involved in Kyron’s disappearance.
KATE SNOW: Do you think that Terri has more information than she’s told investigators so far?
KAINE HORMAN: Yes.
KATE SNOW: About where Kyron is?
KAINE HORMAN: Yes.
KATE SNOW: And so your message to her now is what, Kaine?
KAINE HORMAN: Fully cooperate with law enforcement. Tell the truth.
Desiree and Tony also say the alleged murder-for-hire plot was a turning point for them, the point when they went from being suspicious to being convinced.
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TONY YOUNG: When I heard that, that made the decision in my mind. At the fork in the road, we knew which road to go down.
It was enough for Desiree to finally say in public what she had been thinking in private for weeks.
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So IF that’s been thrown out as false testimony by RSE, and had been a “tactic” used by LE to get Terri to talk, then where does that leave Kaine, DY & TY as to what is making them believe Terri harmed Kyron? In light of recent court proceedings, and Kaine not being present and wanting no cameras, I truly wonder if Kaine is now off that bus.
@Sammy. On calmer reflection, I realize it is likely Desiree is trying to provoke HouzeofBunch to “take on” the mother of the real victim here via RO stalking whatever. That would be folly. He has been wise not to engage here. The one thing a PD wants & strives for is engagement. He is, by ignoring, limitsetting on her. Wrt to her followers, Soldiers etal publicizes tge Court dates. Hope the metal machines are in working order as J Ruby comes to mind. Iirc, L Terry was a follower on a FB hate page (Soldiers?) and nothing she’s written has come a ross as the work of an independent professional journalist imo
wrt “I am painfully reserving comment on her statement about developing a child abduction response team in medford out of respect.”
I’ll comment. Kyron’s case lacked same, imo, managerially. I’ll believe Sheriff Staton that this case investigation was in the hands of the Multnomah Cty Major Crimes Team by 9:05 June 5. So, frankly, Desiree is both a layperson, and in her own case has no experience of an adequately trained CAT, nor imo does personnel exist at the County or local level in Oregon credible to train. Should be in the hands of State Police & FBI.
But at least DY is indirectly confirming this was an abduction.
Blink says,
We learned about the workplace event from DY. I know where she works, and limited research yielded no police call I could locate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peter Bunch stated Terri Horman did not have a job. D’s visit with her minions to T’s supposed workplace was undoubtedly based on rumor. Must have been an unpleasant surprise for whatever business it is.
It has been clear in all of D’s and K’s public speeches that their idea of T “talking” is to tell where Kyron is. They know she spent many hours telling LE everything she knew from June 4 to June 26, day of failed sting. Like Blink’s mute example, T cannot tell where Kyron is if she doesn’t know.
GraceinTheHills says,
Grasshopper, I think all of the dirty laundry in the Hormans’ marriage will be aired, but virtually nothing about the criminal investigation. JMO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Agree absolutely. DA is the one who engineered the divorce to exert pressure on Respondent in hopes of discovery that would make a criminal case against her. K cooperated with this strategy because while he may have originally believed T was involved, it certainly put him in the driver’s seat in the divorce. D of course would do anything to destroy T so she was on board with making accusations that might impact custody of Kiara. We will hopefully see the evidence that proves T did not take Kyron but unlikely we will learn who did from this divorce. It was a misguided idea for DA to try this. Brings back the question we have discussed many times: why focus on exclusively on T when they couldn’t garner evidence. protect someone important? coverup some kind of widespread steroid use that involves school and/or LE/DA? sheer incompetence?
Blink says:…
My commitment to all: if this offender is ultimately apprehended by harming another child, At my expense, I am going to board a plane to Portland and spend days requesting interviews from every principal in this case and if I cant get them, I will report from every office location and stream it live.
That eats at me more than anything in every case I ever work on- when something is preventable and due to some action it is not.
B
_____
This is why I’m here. You are always doling out compliments to posters for their advocacy but you, Blink, lead the way.
There is that cold still place in me that awaits the arrest of this perp. Thank you for not letting the public remain in the dark about his existence.
@Blink – in case you haven’t seen this new article:
http://www.kgw.com/news/bergeson-murder-public-defender-233454421.html
11-27-13
No doubt DY’s grief at losing her son is one of those situations where a person cannot think rationally, act rationally because their hope is waning of ever finding the child. In that regard, my heart aches for her. Yet when the irrationality becomes the impetus for “helpers” to lash out at a person not deemed guilty by a court of law, this creates a dangerous situation. I’m reminded of the story of Job and his “miserable comforters”. DY seems to appear with these people in public, but TY is publically absent. I hope he’s not emotionally absent, nor physically absent.
DY may be acting on what she feels is what she should have done long ago: fight to get Kyron. I don’t know.
In any case, I “unliked” their FB page. It was becoming way too sinister. I saw that others commented that they, too, were leaving the page. One simply cannot have comments such as “I’d have killed her!” FB, in my opinion, needs to intervene.
Rhetorical:…Much of that morning 3 1/2 years ago has been discussed here forward and backward, multiple times I’m sure. But what different light would be shed if it wasn’t TMH requesting the truck, but the reverse. Are we certain KH didn’t request the Mustang that morning? Is LE certain?