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Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police

A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued ©

S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime

DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman

In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher, she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court. Unofficially cleared, that is.

Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley, who have since refused all local media requests, would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.

Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide. While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously, her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.

As was proven not only by her recent polygraph, but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place, Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.

The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.

Stoy: So, in your estimation then, why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.

Spicher: I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons. I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with. He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc. I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name. As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order, she was also told that

Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28^th and never had one before that? I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.

Spicher: No. I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29^th or 30^th. I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.

Stoy: ok, sorry, continue. So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?

Spicher: They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding. It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June, and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40^th birthday party in March. So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?

To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.

Stoy: Which was?

Spicher: At first, I think that they really believed I was involved, and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was, and my vehicle never left, nor did I. They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.

Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case, they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?

Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect. I never felt that way, but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever, but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.

Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?

Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did. To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning. I would ask like who do you mean, because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this. I was scared and it turned out it was good reason. I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.

Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice? Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that. People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies. I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative. In fact, Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly. So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.

Spicher: (laughs) Interesting. I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.

Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?

Spicher: No, do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?

Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?

Spicher: I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house. Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.

Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?

Spicher: That’s it, yes, him. Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?

Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through, and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you. If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information, I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?

Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.

Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back , considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work? What did your attorney say when you told him?

Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney, but to answer your question as to my opinion, I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction. After more thought, and other conversations, I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible. What is your opinion on it?

Stoy: I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece. Again, not wanting to temper your opinions as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did. Is that ok with you?

Spicher: Sure, thank you.

Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion. I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman. Is that correct?

Spicher: Correct, ok.

Stoy: Did they ask you this?

Spicher: Who is they? You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).

Stoy: Fair point, you’re right. The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor. Allow me to rephrase please. Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?

Spicher: Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?

Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?

Spicher: (laughs) touche’ . I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids. I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.

Stoy: Why shock you?

Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing” and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well, impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.

Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct? That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc. And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?

Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury. But yes, that is what she told me. I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her. To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement . I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case, but yes, they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are. But that is my assumption.

Stoy: Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home? Spicher: I am not sure about the exclusive use part, I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.

Stoy: Ok. Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory. By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.

Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.

Stoy: How would you know that?

Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request. She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids. I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.

Stoy: ok, understood, we will get back to that. I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.” Do you recall what year, even ballpark.

Spicher: I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005, and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.

Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine, I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help. Do you remember where you were during the conversation.

Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell, Terri had a lot of drama, and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know, we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.

Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?

Spicher: Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention. It was either during that call or at the lunch. Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.

Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?

Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.

Stoy: Got it. What did she say

Spicher: She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”. She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her. She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller. The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him. I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.

Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from? Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?

SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.

Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person? Sort of like… she gets approval to remain anonymous, she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?

Spicher: Yes, something like that. Except and again, we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out. The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact. From what I recall, I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.

Stoy: Understood, so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day, but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.

Spicher: Yes, I think so.

Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice. I don’t think so because she did not ask for any. So then what? Did Kaine find out?

Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy, and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day. If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember, that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.

Stoy: Ok. Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?

Spicher: Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed, it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing. She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office. We did.

Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what? Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served, in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le, but it would surprise me. Terri was always very family centric. She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing, this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.

Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: No, not at all.

Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?

Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper. He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.

Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting” and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”

Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.

Stoy: She specifically said the FBI, who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.

Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?

Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?

Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?

It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years. The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier. As a strong argument for the trickle down effect, Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle, was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report. A former Sheriff, Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications. The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place. Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.

In fact, Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.

MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.

The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell. O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.

There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.

In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week, it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.

It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan, the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.

Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.

After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption tipping other’s off in the alleged ring , Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso, Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested. The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike. The specifics of which were sealed by the court. It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.

Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids? How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?

“… Jackson, through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”

“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest. He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”

On June 3rd, 2010, approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance, Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.

From the Indictment:

Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden. Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products. Worden has never been charged.

Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.

Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and

841(b)( 1)(E).

The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.

Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).

The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin, a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.

According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.

From Buff To Puff

In contrast to Jackson, although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement, William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon” cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.

In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote, “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”

Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way. Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client, was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.

John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case, sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well. Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question. Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason. The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.

“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”

Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.

Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.

On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.

Andrew Millbrooke filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby, Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot. In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy. The suit is pending. A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion. Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].

With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against Traverso were dismissed this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.

Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation. Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.

As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .

Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.

However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids, but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.

“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.

“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.

He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.

At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”

S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.

The source, an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…” “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…” The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.

Reached for comment, Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.

A request for comment to Mr. Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.

Pending Matters

Through Attorney Bunch, Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.

In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday, Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.

Early this afternoon, a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.

A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013

Jacqueline Beaufort, Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.

Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.

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4,398 Comments

Mom3.0 says:

December 22, 2013 at 11:59 pm

Re to Blinks response of my Dec 21 11:08 pm comment

Blink, I apologize for the length and thank you again for yr reponses never meant to make you feel as though you were on the Truman Show, not sure if I need to take offense to the comment or not, still -never meant to make you feel bad

here are my ponderings to all yr responses as always submitted with only kindness and the utmost respect:

You wrote:

1. Few distinctions- TMH did not contest the EX PARTE emergency order. She could not do so without compromising her constitutional privileges and once again, I am suggesting to you that TMH was told she was facing arrest in this matter, as was her attorney. I also maintain that once that sting occurs, TMH had genuine concern that RSE WAS INVOLVED in taking Kyron, and in my estimation if that was the case, and she now knew Kaine was cooperating with LE under the presumption, I totally understood the legal decisions and as I sit her today, I would have absolutely done the same thing, and followed the advice of my attorney.

–
Blink, I understand – but she didnt have to plead the 5th she hired the best criminal attorney to represent her- and God almighty if she believed RSE was involved in the disappearance of Kyron should she not have had her lawyer mediate a mutually beneficial meeting with LE to share these beliefs?

I get the constitutional rights part I do- but again who is going to set LE and the media straight if not the stepmother who knows they are on the wrong track and would be able to share info and facts to set them straight?

This is what you wrote early on regarding Terri and representation:

J2K says:
June 30, 2010 at 6:35 pm

[WARNING: GLIB REMARK AHEAD]

julie –
(you remarked:) “I just saw a piece on kptv.com put up last night about TH. It says that she doesn’t have the funds for a good lawyer because when KH filed for divorce, he cut off the funds.”

Ya don’t say? Well, I don’t think we should be too concerned about Terri’s inability to afford legal representation, julie.

After all, is she cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to her…

If this woman does not have counsel, or secured counsel “in the process” I will lose all my faith in the land of opportunistic defense attorneys looking for the biggest case of their careers.

I say that respectfully, as some of my best friends are… (you know the drill)

And then, I will speculate that she has a level of culpability and has been advised by counsel to zip it, as they are looking to mount a mental defense.

Counsel will not be an issue in this case, and frankly, the tactic of allowing others to speak for her is a grave mistake.
Bkoncrime.com/2010/06/29/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-kaine-horman-files-for-restraining-order-and-divorce-from-terri-horman/comment-page-5/#comments

-

The point Blink is having hired one of the BEST criminal attorneys ever what does he presumable advise her to do? Button it. When speaking to custody issues? Button it… when speaking of financial issues? Button it… when fighting the RO and so on? Button it

Being a high priced very capable attorney he didnt facilitate working w/ the police, like De De did thru her lawyer. Not going to the FBI speaking directly to media to the kidnappers to her daughter, not to evaluators or in depos Nada. button it- he advised her to Button it- even in her personal life she was barred from the internet …. Button it-

again why as you wrote earlier on this case:

Elizabeth says:
June 29, 2010 at 4:47 pm

Terri took little Kyron to school. She took his science project and helped him set it up. I have to ask. Where was Dad? Where was bio mom and step dad?
Terri probably fixed his breakfast and told him to brush his teeth. I am sure she tucked him in the night before and hopefully helped him say his prayers.

I know bio mom was only every other weekend…but didn’t she feel he was “special” enough to go and see his science project?

Then..he disappears. And Terri the one that did all that is the focus of this investigation? From what I read she is not a “person of interest or a suspect”. Well darn. She has just about lost everything including little Kyron.

I am really curious why once Bio mom was able to get her health back and court and marry a detective and does not think she can live without Kyron..why didn’t she get the little guy back? Courts would be very lenient with her condition and rehabilitation? She looked fine and healthy to me.

I wonder if Terri is getting a bum rap.

Terri I think you need to get a good attorney and PR person and have your voice heard.

Something is wrong with all these people.

E
I said earlier today, I will be floored if she does not give a very high profile interview through, or with her attorney by tommorrow, Wednesday at the latest.

If she were my Client, and she was innocent of any direct involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, she would be on every major network tomorrow morning and then the evening junket Thursday.

Unless of course she is, as we call in the biz, “a bad show” regardless of uninvolvement.

In which case, her attorney would be doing the interviews on her behalf citing investigative integrity concerns.

If she does not, I fully expect her to be arrested for something before the weeks end.
B

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/29/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-kaine-horman-files-for-restraining-order-and-divorce-from-terri-horman/comment-page-3/#comments

So why button it when there were other avenues to which Houze could have directed her journey…
But no… button it

Part 2 cont

AJMO Peace
T. Ruth says:

December 23, 2013 at 12:08 am

@Amys Sister says:
December 22, 2013 at 9:41 pm

from our own famous court reporter:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-kyron-horman-investigation-exclusive-dede-spicher-interview-yields-allegations-of-illegal-steroid-use-terri-horman-took-to-police/comment-page-6/ :

grasshopper’s notes:

then came the part that I found stunning. still reeling from it.
Kantor asked Bunch what good O’D’s info would do. “Is what the deputy said necessarily true?”
Bunch said, “No. If O’D lied then it affected Kiara’s wellbeing.”
(something else I didn’t quite get)
Kantor said, “POLICE DO THAT ALL THE TIME.” (lie)
Bunch, “This info has been used to sever the relationship between Mother and Child, used public processes to do it.”
Then went into other things for awhile.

Thank you T.Ruth and thank you again grasshopper. Again- this is a standing allegation on the record. This happened.
B
Mom3.0 says:

December 23, 2013 at 12:12 am

Part 2

Re Blinks response-
you wrote:
I really feel like I take the time to express my points at length,

Blink, honestly you do and i appreciate the time and effort given for each point
I meant no offense in saying that I dont understand Blink- perhaps your further thoughts will help someoneelse to get a better grasp on yr feelings as well…Im trying to get it…

you wrote:
. and so I guess I am not understanding why you are not understanding me, lol.
——
Ill try to better explain Blink.

You wrote:
This is very simple for me. TMH has never been charged with a crime, nor has she been named a suspect for any crime by LE.
—
Blink- No she hasnt been, thats part of the reason I am having trouble following you…. so why didnt Houze let her speak to LE or to the courts against the RO why did she sit silent and withdraw her request for visitation and custody she was not a suspect she was not arrested and it seems as if she was innocent
so with the aid of her powerful attorney couldnt he have let her speak without it “incriminating” her- as her voice, her truth -even if spoken thru him, would have potentially aided her in gaining custody/visiatation and vindication (cleared) of supicion …

You wrote:

in Now we have seen the flimsy impetus for this whole FAPA order ( I know I answered a post of yours at length on this and iirc you were going to ponder it and get back to it.. happens, thats fine, but the allegation does not even meet the statute to charge her. That means that this whole hot mess is generated by some language barrier uncorroborated landscaper that TMH herself brought to LE.

—-
Blink, IRT the FAPA order – we all understood that any evidence in the MFHP would be somewhat flimsy from the get go, and this is back when you still entertained the possibility that it could be true….as again attempted MFH is always going to rest on flimsyness as there is always a lack of evidence and follow thru in such cases….

Still, this same evidence or lack there of would have been the case three years ago ….terri being innocent- would have known there was no evidence of said plot, so what kept her and her lawyer from participating fully in all the civil proceedings as they would have known the evidence was nonexistant or flimsy from day one?
and they could have faced it head on – and again the RO was based on kaines very real fears
fears that he reasonable believed seeing how terri lied or hid the landscaper and the 911 accosting…and her flirtatiousness with said LS… and questions over the disappearance and the timeline and the doctors appt and of kittys earache and… she could have addressed each of these fears, and by doing so Kaine would have dropped the RO or would have been forced to it seems
and LEs questions would have been addressed as well-

You have a background in PR- wouldnt have terri benefited from speaking out and taking the case before the court of public opinion?
she could have, with the aid of houze and a reputable PR team essentially hushed the greatest negative murmerings of the public and in doing so she would have helped her case in civil and in criminal court if ever there came a time that she would be arrested- but i believe she wouldnt have been as if she is innocent and LE has the little to no real evidence against her then she would have exited the harsh spotlight as it were….

I understand that the allegation never met the statute to charge her Blink I pondered a great deal on yr earlier responses to me  she was never charged never arrested this is true

This again could mean itis further evidence that she is innocent
– BUT even so- not meeting the statute does not diminish the possibility as we sit here today that the MFHP isnt true language barriers or no language barriers does it?

Cont Part 3

With Kindness and Respect
AJMO Peace
T. Ruth says:

December 23, 2013 at 12:16 am

@Amys Sis:

Also, BunchofHouzes also said this:

Terri Horman’s divorce attorney also raised new allegations.

“There are a number of troubling aspects of husband’s prior conduct and parental decisions,” wrote lawyer Peter Bunch. “Husband and the police have perpetuated the dissemination of inaccurate information about the circumstances of the disappearance of Kyron Horman.”

http://www.kgw.com/home/Gloves-come-off-in-divorce-between-Kaine-Terri-Horman–221410121.html

falsehoods, yep.

Correct. Flat out allegation in open court.
B
Mom3.0 says:

December 23, 2013 at 12:27 am

Part 3
Re Blinks response

You wrote:
Do you realize that TMH has been given less rights with her child than someone who has been charged in a criminal matter, regardless?

—

Blink, I understand why some feel that way but for me this isnt exactly the truth of the matter, as she had every right to contest the RO sooner and she had every right to follow thru with her request for visitation and custody from nearly the start
Yet She choose to embrace her 5th amendment privilege to not self incriminate- above those other rights afforded to her- which unlike most of us she did this even with representation with the aid of one of the best attorneys around- why plead the 5th..

Casey Anthony who we both believe is free when she should have been held accountable had only the aid of Baez and his dream team CA had spoken at every turn her defense was nonsense and still she walked
So i feel that terri innocent with the aid of HOUZE of Bunch certainly could have hired that PR team and fully participated in all evals depos all court proceeding etc and would have come out with Baby K in her arms AND would have helped the investigation of Ky disappearance to move forward toward finding the culprits without the barrier of not being able to eliminate her from the equation… as they would have had her complete cooperation and she would have spoke out under the direction of HouZe who could have had her answer and help without pleading the 5th yet he advised her to sit mute

You asked:
Why are we not presuming innocence of someone who has the right to it and has NOT been charged?

—-
Blink, Im not sure if you are speaking directly to me with this statement or not
but if you are I will start by saying Blinky, have you ever known me to not presume innocence – or not to argue for both sides when I do not have proof to the truth? I feel like you are holding some of us more accountable then others for debating the “other side” which hold the same possibilities which you once felt strongly could be the answers in this case….
it is you my friend who coined letting the vampire in, it is you my friend that at first questioned her silence and her actions and inactions – as it should be- at it has always been we have learned from you on this teaching blog to look at all possibles….

you once opined in this case in defense of word girl and Lea Conner and twinkletoes (pp) that seeing how you dont know the truth of who or why or how both sides of the argument are needed wanted valued and should be heard-

heres a post w/ yr comment to illustrate:

Word Girl says:
September 8, 2012 at 4:18 pm

And the Big Muscle must mean Houze? Either that or it means that giant flap of stuff hanging from Terri’s hind–the remnants of bodybuilding, steroid drinking self-adoration.
———–
I am missing the meaning of this comment. JMO. BTW This is not the anti-terri Horman site.

I am anticipating that our series is going to be personal regardless of what side of a suspect fence anyone is on. To be frank, it is one of the reasons I have hesitated doing one.

I feel strongly there are aspects of this child’s disappearance and the people entrusted with his care that require critical thinking in an effort to progress his case.

I have no idea if it will be successful, but it is how I roll.

To all: because cd has reminded me of the level of emotional investment so many have for Kyron, I am going to ask all of you to kindly follow my rules of respect for one another and hopefully for me.

We can scroll and roll. We can take a break if we think our comment is not constructive whether it is dissenting or supporting, and we can disagree on the basis that until Kyron is found, and what happened in this case can be verified 100%, we really have no idea if anyone of us is “right” and should be open to all logical paths.

For me, I have one goal. Progressing Ky’s case to produce his recovery. Period.

My secondary goal and should absolutely be everyone’s, is to remind readers that we are afforded certain rights and freedoms as US citizens, and the restriction of liberty comes with a supreme burden to our criminal justice system. If we do not support it being met, every person in this country better realize it is a possibility for all of us without discrimination.

I would respectfully ask that consideration be on all our minds accordingly.

I guess it would be a good time to also remind folks not to post any hater links or reactions- I abhor that nonsense and it has no place here.

Thank you cd and Word Girl for allowing me to address all on the tail of your exchange.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/09/07/kyron-horman-disappearance-exclusive-three-part-series-debuts-on-blink-on-crime/comment-page-2/#comments

–

Has this since changed Blink, do you no longer feel it is appropriate ?

I have presumed her innocence as you know thru my past postings on this case- and if I were to sit on her jury I could truthfully say that i would be able to presume her innocence still and I would weigh any and all evidence before based on that presumption

If you wish me to stop debating the possibilities I will as I wish only to help not harm
Cont Part 4
Kindly and respectfully

AJMO Peace
Panda says:

December 23, 2013 at 12:50 am

I’m not trying to argue, I’m just curious because this has been brought up here several times. Do any of these convicted murderers have missing children?

***************************
erose says:
December 21, 2013 at 7:14 pm

Snipped

Convicted murderers have the right to supervised visitation with their children.

Unless I am reading this wrong, if their children are missing why/how would they have visitation? I am aware of cases with visitation orders with siblings of children the parent or person killed.
B
Mom3.0 says:

December 23, 2013 at 1:01 am

Correction-
oops in Prt 3 I some how attributed that post to to wordgirl snipped it- it was CD quoting WG, the link explains my apologies to CD wordgirl Blink and all
…

Back to Part 4

Re Blinks response:

Blink, all I have been discussing is the POSSIBILITY that she might be guilty or guilty of some involvement
I am doing so because of my fear IF she is Little Kitty deserves to be protected and I fear with out stringent MH evaluations even if not guilty she could pose threat to kitty..as she has had some questionable parenting decisions and behaviors…

The possibility exists that each and everyone of her actions and inactions could go to showing her consciousness of guilt…

Something to which you once too thought as a possible in this case once see yr earlier response:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/16/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-terri-horman-leaves-the-house/comment-page-8/#comments

puddnheadwilson says:
July 20, 2010 at 2:47 am

If I were in Terri’s shoes, I doubt I would be cooperating with law enforcement as of 6/26, either. Allow yourself to imagine, for a moment, that she is not directly involved in Kyron’s disappearance but is “guilty” of making a lifestyle choice (having an affair with a guy who turns out to be very shady) that ultimately led to Kyron’s disappearance:

She calls 911, in fear, asking for help against threats made by this shady guy who is OUTSIDE HER FRONT DOOR–only to find out that detectives are actually working WITH him in a surreptitious sting against HER. Then she further learns that her husband has left the home with their daughter based on information provided by these same officials. I can imagine the shock and (yes) the betrayal she must have felt. From her point of view, LE, as of 6/26, are coming from a “bad faith” perspective concerning whatever she says or does. Who wouldn’t “lawyer up” once you’ve gotten to that place? The Ramsey family got to that place, too, when it came to LE.

Wishing fervently, as always, that little Kyron is found alive, and wishing also that little Kiara is soon reunited, at least in some degree, with her mother.

While I do agree that Terri was in need of representation by then, I think this woman has made her own bed so to speak.

Strictly from a PR perspective, and all you idealists can sigh collectively as you wish, this woman’s consciousness of guilt is not helping her. People will not care ultimately who harmed this child directly.
This is going to lead back to Terri Horman, and people are going to want her head on a stick, not some duped landscaper. That is reality.

I say this because someone needs to inform her that how this goes down is in her control for now.

When Kyron is found, not so much. I just want to put this little sweetie man in my pocket.
B

end snip

You wrote:

Why would I ever support constitutional breaches in any matter, regardless- because as I said, under our system it can happen to anyone, and these rights are unalienable. With the exception of course to those who might be in the country illegally

Blink honestly it could not happen to anyone especially anyone that has the means and opportunity to hire a high powered attorney- yes she chose to plead the 5th but under other representation a good lawyer even houZe could have allowed her to speak could have worked with LE and still protected her from prosecution- most parents would do this heck even the ramseys did this- they spoke out to the media to LE in depos- they did not plead the 5th they stated to all and everyone that they were innocent from day one on-

and why would you ever support constitutional breaches, well i would say it would be in cases where the child is missing where LE is in desperate need of info -where speaking out and not remaining silent could be the difference between a child out there and a child being recovered…I would say it is when you are in more of this frame of mind see yr earlier comment:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/16/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-terri-horman-leaves-the-house/comment-page-18/#comments

twinkletoes says:
July 23, 2010 at 4:26 pm

@LPB, no I am not mad at you. :O) I am not easily offended. Don’t worry about it. I am an attorney so I am used to people disagreeing with me.

@the rest of the posters who responded, yes, I hear you on the warrants and that there must be some evidence backing it up and I agree with you that it sure looks like Terri and DeDe are into something really, really bad. And I am fine with LE doing what they need to do to catch whomever is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance, whether that person is TH or someone else. BUT, they seem awfully sure it is her. And so if they are so darn certain, why no arrest? And if there is no arrest because there isn’t enough evidence to satisfy the grand jury, then how can they be so darn sure? I don’t feel I am defending TH or DeDe. I do feel like I am defending Kyron by not closing other options. There is a possibility that TH didn’t have anything to do with this. Sure, she is a slut and a liar and probably a bad cook too. But show me the evidence that she kidnapped Kyron. Shit, I have more motive than she does. I think he is adorable and it breaks my heart that he was raised by a non-parent, yes TH, while both of his bio parents pursued their own interests throughout the day. TH killing him just doesn’t make sense to me. Not saying she didn’t. But it doesn’t add up.

And I really don’t like the mass hysteria surrounding this case. It is really dangerous. I feel like LE is taking advantage of the unruly mob in order to pressure TH into cracking. It is reckless, imho. TH has been getting death threats. Now this other woman is plastered all over the media by the most sympathetic super-non-couple, Kyron’s parents. It is reckless. I am not saying TH and this DeDe character are innocent. I am saying that if LE wants them, they should get them before the angry mob does. They are inciting the mob and using Kaine and Desiree’s grief and desperation to do so. It seems reckless to me.

And one poster up above seems to be suggesting that I am really Terri. (?) LOL, puh-lease. I’ve been here since Caylee Anthony went missing. Blink knows I’m no red squirrel.
-
Yowza, a feisty one sista.

I am going to leave it alone because I think the names match the sentiment; context is important in your comment, imo.

The truth is, overall, I agree with you totally. The problem I am having is that I understand the angst that the Investigators and family is racked with right now so I don’t really care about their rights and if it works to locate Kyron, I say eff them.

I already know the lecture about our constitution, and I agree in advance, it is not a perfect system, but is the best one going. In my work, I just get to the point where I feel that adults are just that, and children’s rights should come before ours.
B
and
I did not say that what they are doing is right, I just think it is what they must do, what can I say- for once I am wishy washy on an issue. And I am way cool with disagreements dear twinkle
B

—

end snip

Blink as you opined in CDs comment (pp) no one can be proven right or wrong as of yet

and as you opined on this and other cases- (pp) it isnt ever about being right or wrong its about advocacy-

little Kyron is still out there we still dont know all evidence all theories all avenues all possibilities or if they have been eliminated…

So we discuss and debate and hope and pray
we all care about our terris rights Kittys rights kaines rights james rights Desirees rights …
we all care about the victims and their families we all care about justice

no matter which possibility we are bringing up for discussion we care & we wish only to help not harm
as we were taught by you
Cont Part 5
respectfully submitted w care
ajmo peace
Mom3.0 says:

December 23, 2013 at 1:13 am

Part 5

Re Blinks response cont

you wrote:
I can’t say whether TMH is involved, but I have spent over 4 years and thousands of investigative hours as well as BOC staff and I can say with certainty that I have seen no evidence she is or was, and I have definitely seen evidence of involvement of a suspect who has never been tied to her or anyone else.
—–

I sincerely appreciate your honesty and hard work Blink and as you know i am uber respectful of your work but since you cant rule it out and you do not have the resources of LE or their entire case evidence etc- I will have to say then it is still a reasonably possibility, and as such, it would be an error IMO to push for unsupervised visitation and/or custody of little K as Kaines fears may be wellfounded..

You wrote
I do know that if Rees cannot affirm that the mfh investigation is not precluded from a successful prosecution by some means ( I am throwing a bone here, we already know it cannot, but this will come out in a stipulation or admissability hearing requested by Houze, mark my words) then not only does he have to admit that, but then that data is extracted from the Kyron disappearance and subject to public disclosure.

–
I await full disclosure on all fronts Blink, it is time for all to stop and get busy finding the truth

You wrote:

How would the fact that RSE was put up to this whole mess via LE to link to alleged criminal incidents so they could justify the hot mess that has ensued change your opinion?

—

I right now can not entertain that thought Blink as without evidence of said gross actions it is not logical to me at this juncture to think why so shortly after a 7yr old tiny boy goes missing that LE would think along these lines:
hey lets see how we could frame and set up the stepmon- comeon lets get the DEA and the FBI involved just for kicks and then we will arrest her- and we can walk by flexing our steriod muscles in her face…who cares what happened to the little boy this is more important…
ooops wait you mean we didnt frame her enough we forgot to plant evidence….we dont get to arrest her…,oh well lets keep this ruse going she deserves to be in hell
shell definitely keep her mouth shut and invoke her 5th amendment priveledge so our plot will remain uncovered..and surely even with the aid of one of the best criminal attorneys around we shouldnt worry he’ll advise her to shhhh so we can “get her”

Sorry Blink without evidence i dont see how setting her up so early was even on anyones mind- but I reserve the right to eat my words when you are proven right yet again, as you have been on many cases even in instances on this case:)

You wrote:

That is what this about and it has nothing to do with Baby K’s interests.

–
Again, when it plays out as the truth I will eat my words all 5000+ (nod to cd) and shout from the mountain tops that Blink is right again- secretely i might even claim to have known you would be right all along <3

Cont Part 6

Respectfully submitted with care
AJMO peace
Malty says:

December 23, 2013 at 1:18 am

@Rose
I laughed at your #28 post
Over chips and salsa he says lemme arrange to kill your husband
Ha ha I needed that laugh
Thank You
Mom3.0 says:

December 23, 2013 at 1:49 am

Part 6 the end

Re Blinks response

You wrote:

Which I would add, I posted a great deal of legal basis for that statement yesterday. I think Engel’s statements about Houze looking to know what LE knows is laughable. Houze knows they don’t have a shred of evidence that implicates TMH and all avenues to that theory were LE generated- the exact opposite of investigation 101.
—

I understand your point and yes i agree this could be playing out just now- but if so HouZe would have realized all this would happened from day one so why wouldnt he have had terri move forward way back when instead of playing it this way thats what i cant wrap my head around. I am not so sure it is laughable that HouZe is fishing in a way- it would be wise and seems to be working to that end…so I think with his astuteness it didnt just coincidentally work to his advantage.

You wrote:

So to your point, I agree that evaluations are in order, and so they are being conducted.

I am relieved you agree blink. But has she submitted to the standard tests?- terri only agreed to limited evals did she take an MMPI or any # of parent psyche tests?

http://www.deltabravo.net/cms/plugins/content/content.php?content.44

You wrote:

However, as I also posited previously, the “LE told me cloak” Kaine is wearing around needs to be challenged and it will be eventually, of that I am sure, and my bigger concern is that this little girl was the victim of custodial interference and alienation of her rights first and foremost.

Blink I agree eventually the what LE brought to the table will be challenged and it definitely should be if it is true that all Kaine based his decisions upon were lies- My God can you imagine finding out that your family which was in devastation from the loss of Kyron was sent into an never ending hell which kept him and Kiara from terri and james horrific

I mean the poor guy Kaine still talked of wanting to fix his marriage even after the failed sting and he still talked of wishing to have terri at his side during these difficult times and of wanting to see james….

If this is the case then By God i hope LE will be held to the fire for utterly destroying a family…

Having said that I think it is a bit unfair to say that he is wearing a cloak as that makes it seem as if he is a willing part of the lie when in truth he would be only doing what most parents would do follow the lead of LE assuming they are the good guys the truth tellers and hope that their missing child is found and brought home safe by these good guys.

You wrote;
Baby K has the right to unimpeded relationships with both parents absent a finding to the contrary- and to date, we know CPS has never been involved. Why do we suppose that is? There is one child missing from that home, and the other kept from her Mom for over 4 years. Both Ky and Baby K have rights that are not being protected here and this is why I am adamant that it has nothing to do with guilt or innocence because nobody has ever been afforded due process for such allegations, and in the face of that- these children continue to suffer.

—

This is where we have a disconnect on my understanding as kaine IS doing what he feels is in the best interest of both Ky and little K and terri has been kept from her child for 4 years because she didnt fight the RO and she dropped her bid to custody and visitation until recently absent contrary findings how can their be findings to the contrary if up until recently TH has not participated fully in the process: the evals etc?

Blink I too think
A child has the right to an impeded relationship with both of their parents but only when it is in the best interests and when they can be assured protection- many parents fail at this task that is sadly why so many children are in foster care

I would think There is no cps involved because terri did not ask for a GAL and she has been precluded from contact first by the RO then by the NCO if she thought for a minute Kitty were in danger she or her parents could call CPS on Kaine they havent as she is being cared for…at least this is the way I look at it.

You wrote:
As far as parents making false criminal allegations about one another, such activity would generate a CPS investigation and then such findings would be presented to the court as appropriate. Remember Casey’s? The system in that instance is identical to the instant matter. Hearsay does not come in.

—
True Blink but the allegations would first be brought forth in the civil court such as with Sparks Vs Sparks cited in rackners filing-
– until recently the divorce was on hold and again the custody case is moving forward only now because terri has again challenged the RO and asserted her right to ask for visitation and custody

I submit this with respect I sincerely appreciated the discussion Blink and although I still dont entirely understand yr feelings on everything i do get the well founded points and info you utilize to address your thoughts-

Thanks for allowing me to hang here to discuss possibilities and continue learning from you and all of your contributors.

My prayers to Kyron to Kitty james and to all of their Parents step and bio their family friends and community-
May Kyron be found and returned to them and may this whole nightmare be put behind them on the scales of lady Justice

happy Holidays to all and to all a good night

AJMO Peace
Malty says:

December 23, 2013 at 2:04 am

@Nelmel
This beauty thin new mommy will probably have blackberrying and yard work if she stays
around
Panda says:

December 23, 2013 at 2:25 am

Just thinking of the coincidence….two of the witnesses have misunderstood what TH was trying to tell them….Kyron’s teacher thought TH said Kyron had a Dr. appt…….and RSE thought TH wanted her husband dead. How did they mess that up?

Well one has impaired or limited understanding of the English language, and the other had to come up with a CYA plan in an instant. His coat and bookbag were hanging on the hook in his classroom and a student pointed out he was missing and she told him he was likely in the bathroom. The Dr. appointment was never mentioned then, interestingly.

My sources tell me that one of the witnesses slated for the now rescheduled hearing is the Horman’s Pediatrician. Gonna be confirming that conversation and the appointment was in fact scheduled.

B
vw says:

December 23, 2013 at 4:38 am

@truth…thanks for reposting that poem. This is the first year that we have not attended The Chrismas Revels. My son met a little girl sledding when he was four. They ended up friends in kindergarten and her family and ours attended the Revels with them every year until off to college they went. Not together. Mine became a Duck, and she went far away to Harvard. The adults always love reciting the poem, and singing along. The kids liked the sword dance.

@Grace. Absolutely no sarcasm was intended. My comment was not personal. And yours about TMH’s intent to deceive House could be possible. Except that the depo itself testifies, as much as we’ve seen of it, ….well, testifies to confusion on his part. Remember that he said he didn’t know what was wanted of him, when Engles contacted him, for example.

@Kat…NES, LEP, CALP, BICS…ELD LOL. Gosh those changed so much that doing inservices in my last decade, I’d have to catch myself….even referring to the nomenclature. From ESL student to ELD student to ELL student. All political, but more defined. And the methodologies…well…they all come circling back eventually. About BICS – very rarely did we/do we have hispanics or refugees arrive with the same amount of education in math and reading as their age-level English-speaking peers.
WRT Rudy. I keep getting a strong feeling that he never wanted in on this “sting”. Putting aside the language issue IMO he was told…do the sting and we’ll leave you alone…no questions asked. In the same way that Dede was told…give us some info about her and we won’t smear your name in public. I’m glad he has a lawyer now….unless Rackner “sent” Thayne to him. But is the DA’s office funding Thayne? Wow…that is going to be a hot mess when this is over. And while he is testifying….as he could be still an ‘agent’ of LE.
erose says:

December 23, 2013 at 5:31 am

@Mom3.0, WRT#6 I have much I could say, but do not think it will further our discussion. For the sake of LE and the DA, PPS, the kids that go to Skyline, KH and DY, and others who believe she is guilty, we are just going to have to hope they are right.
Survivor says:

December 23, 2013 at 9:03 am

Blink – New email address – finally retired from that aspect of my life!

I feel quite under-qualified to weigh-in much so just lurking. Little Kyron had my heart from the very first moment I read of his disappearance. Seven days later in talking with friends about the case, I argued on TMH’s behalf as it just didn’t feel like she had anything to do with his disappearance. I was on the fence for a while as some stuff was just too sensational to ignore.

I’m wondering if the lunch meeting really was lost in translation. If his English is really that broken and from the perspective that KH pushed so much on her including “to do” lists while he was gone:

How many have said of their spouse/SO, “I could kill/strangle/punch him/her”, not in the literal sense but simply utterances either in anger or tongue-in-cheek? (I remember during a very cash-tight point early in marriage my husband spent a lot of money on roses and muttering, “I’m gonna kill him!” Of course I didn’t mean it! They were beautiful and I was the envy of the day sitting behind 30 beautiful and rare roses on my desk for my birthday.) What if she wanted “to get rid of” certain plants or trees? What if she was meeting him to make arrangements for landscaping services for a future trip KH would be taking out of town? Money would certainly be discussed. Her frustration with KH would likely be evident. “Help me out” could/would be part of the conversation, especially if RSE had scheduling issues. I can see how anger at her husband, killing/ridding of plants, money and secrecy would all be part of the meeting.

I try to keep up but admit that I haven’t read everything. If there are other facts which would dispute this possibility, I apologize.
Tiny says:

December 23, 2013 at 9:11 am

Marry Christmas!
Blink, your narrative up there is exactly right and needs to be stated over and over. I so want Kyron found, and know that DY has recently been planning another search. He’s out there, somewhere. I personally have searched. That whole area is so vast and geographically diverse, it is easy to see why there is no trace of Kyron. Not my point however, the government school lost this kid. No matter how you slice it, the disappearance is their fault. TMH is guilty of trusting those idiots but aren’t we all?
The unbelievable destruction of her life and rights is appalling and could be anyone of us. Bigger is the destruction of a little sister’s life. Wow. The powers that be in LE and PPS are one powerful bunch and that should scare the crap out of us all. Instead we have gangs in Roseburg harassing a family and on social media. All I can see there is total stupidity and more power being given to an already out of control LE. Crazy town. That’s my city.
M Harris says:

December 23, 2013 at 9:33 am

@Venetia says:

RE: December 22, 2013 at 8:39 pm

IIRC, KH sd something to the effect of he wanted the Wall of Hope moved to the gym location so that ‘he’ had to look at it everyday as he went to work- meaning the SZ (but of course he didn’t say SZ.) Anyone recall that comment?
***************
I remember!
Ode says:

December 23, 2013 at 10:27 am

This will be my 4th Christmas that I end our family prayer with “dear God please help Kyron Horman find his way home”. Some shake their heads at me and a few still ask who is Kyron Horman? I don’t care because Kyron has a place in my heart and I will not forget him. I don’t want to say that same prayer next year but I will if I have to.
Hope all the special people hear at Blink’s have a Merry and safe Christmas.
Ode
T. Ruth says:

December 23, 2013 at 12:16 pm

Eeeek, MacArther Park…..I hated that song.

“MacArthur’s Park is melting in the dark
All the sweet, green icing flowing down
Someone left the cake out in the rain

I don’t think that I can take it
‘Cause it took so long to bake it
And I’ll never have that recipe again
Oh noooooo, o-oh no-ooooo”

That’s an earworm I can do without.
Panda says:

December 23, 2013 at 12:56 pm

I submitted two posts last night that have disappeared?

I only had one from you and I responded Panda.
B
MockingbirdSings says:

December 23, 2013 at 1:09 pm

erose says:
December 22, 2013 at 10:56 pm

@Mom3.0,

I spent quite some time pondering TH’s guilt, I feel it is only fair to give equal time to her innocence. Initially, I was led to believe that TH was responsible for her stepson’s disappearance.
——————————————–

I am not really replying to either comment – it just occurred to me that one giant thing I have learned from all of this is not to be “led to believe”. I would say more, but we all know what I mean and why.

A happy, healthy, and wiser new year to all of you!
MockingbirdSings says:

December 23, 2013 at 1:13 pm

Malty says:
December 23, 2013 at 2:04 am

@Nelmel
This beauty thin new mommy will probably have blackberrying and yard work if she stays around
—————————————-

@Malty – thanks for the chuckle – you are so right!
Venetia says:

December 23, 2013 at 1:19 pm

Thanks, M Harris ! I’m so glad that you remember that too – I was beginning to doubt my memory. I can’t find the video with KH making that statement. Likely his team thought it a bad idea in terms of the overall plan and had it ‘poofed.’ To admit that there was/is a ‘he’ while TH was/is getting all the media attention would make it seem as though there IS a SZ and they know who it is and even the route he takes driving to work. Possible game changer.
Rose says:

December 23, 2013 at 2:27 pm

@Panda. iirc a school parent posted here CYA teacher is deaf in one ear,
or has some significant hearing impediment. I felt then that was the last disability one wants in
a K-2 classroom where teacher/child interaction is so critical to language acquisition, so imo PPS itself would be
the last to disclose this. Likely a relevant question in her depo.
erose says:

December 23, 2013 at 2:56 pm

@TRuth, You are one of the best communicators here.
lyla says:

December 23, 2013 at 3:12 pm

“My sources tell me that one of the witnesses slated for the now rescheduled hearing is the Horman’s Pediatrician. Gonna be confirming that conversation and the appointment was in fact scheduled.

B”
——————————————————————-
Was it ever determined Ky’s Dr. appointment was in fact scheduled for Friday, June 11th as TH has stated? And, what was the reason for this appointment?

Not publicly by the Dr, no. DDS verified to me that she was told by TMH that she made the Dr. appt the morning of June 3rd, she believed, for the following Friday or June 11th, the last day of school. I know what the evaluation was for, but am not publishing that to protect Kyron’s privacy of medical records, communications, etc. Kaine has spoken about “some talk of a doctor appt”, so as far as I know, he knew about it as well.
B
erose says:

December 23, 2013 at 3:25 pm

Sometime after the alleged MFH lunch, TH called 911 on RSE because he allegedly lunged at her with Baby K in her arms. Who calls 911 on the person they hire to kill their husband?
erose says:

December 23, 2013 at 3:26 pm

Or, did she call 911 on him first, and then take him to lunch?
grasshopper says:

December 23, 2013 at 5:03 pm

@Mom3.0

It is astounding to me that you believe your approach would be more successful than one developed by an extremely experienced and skillful criminal defense attorney such as Stephen Houze. He knows the law and how the court system works better than you do. Blink too has tried many times to explain why T’s attorney have handled things as they have. T is undoubtedly under orders to shut up or they will no longer represent her. Would you really throw away the only professional help you have because you believed you knew better?

T spent hours and hours over a 3 week period talking with LE. LE had told all of the family not to talk to media, with which she complied. Don’t you think she told everything she could think of, remember during that time when she believed that they were sincerely trying to find Kyron. She was repeatedly advised by friends to get an attorney but like you she believed she could be more helpful by telling all to LE. Once the sting happened and the RO based on LE info, there could be no doubt that LE was after her. Even then it took 2 more days for her to lawyer up. Never forget that the Skyline staff lawyered up THE DAY AFTER Kyron went missing. Why don’t you suspect any of them of being involved?

IIRC from the beginning T was content to ask for supervised visitation in a secure location. There is no reason in the world why she should not have had this. Kiara would have been fully protected. Not to mention that this alleged MFH plot happened months before Kyron disappeared and there is no indication at all that T in any way harmed Kiara, Kyron or Kaine during that time.

I simply don’t understand your continuing insistence that T MIGHT be guilty. No history. No evidence. No motive. No due process. Hateful accusations by bios amplified by media. Being separated from her daughter without proper protocol of investigation on basis of hearsay. They have her on surveillance video at the same time as Kyron was seen at school. No evidence of accomplice. They have been scrutinizing her for 3 and a half years without coming up with any of these things. And you think if just T had kept talking to LE after they had publicly turned against her, the bios were making accusations against her. they had taken her daughter with the clear message that we all got, tell where Kyron is and this will all stop.

She can only tell if she knows. Do you not think she would have told by now if for no reason than that she would get to see Kiara? Her attorneys are not fools. If they believed her guilty they would have pled her and made a deal if she revealed his whereabouts. K, D, LE and DA all want her to tell where Kyron is instead of solving the case themselves. If she were guilty why haven’t they found evidence? Why do they expect a confession instead of a case based on investigation and proof of guilt? that is the normal way a case is made.

The last point, the most devastating one, is that it is not possible to prove innocence. Engel repeatedly accuses BunchofHouzes of trying to use the divorce court to prove she is innocent. what a laugh. It is DA involvement that has mixed the criminal element in with the RO that has been withdrawn I remind you because they were unwilling to provide evidence to back it up. It’s been said in this discussion that for everyday citizens, innocent until proven guilty doesn’t hold up. We form our opinions on our own way of looking at things. But in court, even a divorce court being twisted into a criminal case only without allowing cross examination of accusers, as far as I know the rule holds: innocent until proven guilty.

It is understandable why John and Jane Q Public think T is probably or possibly guilty because they have nothing but media accounts to guide them, and these are universally negative. We are thrilled when Max throws a few crumbs of objectivity. But for anybody who has been following the case closely and especially the information presented on this blog and by the very knowledgeable people on here, anyone who has seen all the missteps and inappropriate, possible unlawful actions taken by JK, DA and K’s team, it’s much more difficult to understand.

I completely agree with the impossibility of proving innocence. Does everyone realize that if TMH really doesn’t know anything, and I believe that to be true or she would have found a way out of this Hell, that it changes nothing for her.

Absolutely nothing. I wish I could impart that I am confident that as part of his retention process Houze requires a polygraph. How he represents his client will be based on that. Look at his record- the man is not going into 4 years with a client who has yet to step foot in an actual criminal court, and likely never will if she failed it. No way.

B
Rose says:

December 23, 2013 at 6:40 pm

Just wondering what Steps as custodial parent Kaine will testify he took to remove baby K’s published image (and obtain an injunction for future) on hate sites against her mother
https://www.facebook.com/pages/TELL-the-TRUTH-TERRI-Shame-The-Devil/247198682111443?ref=stream
after all he is a computer professional, and has attorneys on retainer.

If I were doing his home study, his protection activities
wrt attacks on K’s mother online, featuring K’s picture,
when a SZ is at large, would be on my list of questions.
T. Ruth says:

December 23, 2013 at 6:50 pm

I don’t understand why folks are questioning about whether or not a murderer is given the right to see his/her children while incarcerated. What has that got to do with this case?

No one is in prison for either the alleged MFH *plan* or for having anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance. A MFH did not take place. Kaine Horman is alive and well, therefore there is no murderer. The minimum in that regard, that TMH would be held accountable for, were there any evidence, is solicitation to commit murder, however, there is no evidence, just hearsay. Add to that, that no one, not anyone investigating this case anyway, has any idea what happened to Kyron, that is very evident. They don’t even know whether the child is dead or alive. So, there’s no murderer there either.

If Kyron is deceased, and once someone is arrested, tried and convicted and thrown in prison for either crime, then that question about murderer’s right to see their child may be relevant to this case.

Why does everyone want to put the cart before the horse? Terri Horman is, as she stands right now, an entirely innocent woman, convicted of nothing, who has not been able to see her child for over 3 years. So why should she not have time with her child? We can *whatif* this thing to death, but until LE steps up to the plate and arrests her, gives her her day in court, or someone from CPS can come forward and show her abusing her daughter in the past in some way then, I’m sorry, the law says she should get to see her child. I truly don’t understand the court dragging their feet on this issue.

Just sayin.

I was thinking this morning this dissolution case should be moved out of Multnomah County. Multnomah County has far too much to lose to be fair. JMO, but I think a change of venue for the divorce would be fair, even if they only moved it to some county in Eastern Oregon. What are the laws on where one can and can’t get divorced? Maybe it could even be moved to Washington State, just across the border. I don’t think a Judge from Washington State would be quite as interested in hearing what Mr. Rees has to say in a divorce trial, of which he is no part. Is it possible to even do such a thing? Just curious.
Rose says:

December 23, 2013 at 7:28 pm

2 lovely comments by Houze.
now I’m wondering if the Bend attorney
referring the Moultons was G Lynch.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf/2013/12/steve_duin_the_redemption_of_k.html#comments
Clark’s latter story had something to do with
litigation on behalf of institutionally-embedded child sex abusers, Christianity, and some connection to
Young Life. While we learn his wife had rapidly progressing ALS, I don’t understand his own
medical etiology.

I am not seeing comments by Houze?
B
Rose says:

December 23, 2013 at 7:33 pm

in memorium, it seems, sadly
http://www.kellyclarkattorney.com/boy-scout-sexual-abuse-lawyer/
Rose says:

December 23, 2013 at 7:39 pm

OT by now
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/portland_attorney_kelly_clark.html
rapidly progressing neurological sx, beginning in Oct, presentling as uniformly
numb arms & legs was not cancer imo. Hope family authorized an autopsy.
grasshopper says:

December 23, 2013 at 8:58 pm

A harrowing case with more the a few similarities to the Horman case.

“That Camden interrogation room, it turns out, was fully equipped to do what a growing body of expert opinion has insisted be done in such moments: a full videotaping of a suspect’s interaction with detectives, from the start of an interrogation through any possible formal confession. Judges, defense lawyers, and even many prosecutors have come to see such comprehensive videotaping as the single most important factor in securing reliable confessions and preventing the wrongful convictions that can stem from false confessions. In New Jersey, where Hernandez was being questioned, taping interrogations in homicide cases has been required by law since 2005.

The detectives, however, never turned the cameras on during what would become seven hours of interrogation. They remained off, in fact, until 2:57 that afternoon, when Hernandez was finally ready to formally confess. In a series of taped statements, Hernandez, a 51-year-old man with no formal criminal history, said he had lured Etan to the bodega’s basement with the promise of a soda, instantly choked him, placed him, still alive, in a plastic bag, and then inside a cardboard box, threw the boy’s book bag behind a freezer and carried the box in broad daylight several blocks before placing it on the sidewalk. He said he had not known the boy, and he offered no motive.

Manhattan prosecutors used this confession to gain a murder indictment against Hernandez, publicly disclosing no other evidence, and a trial has been set for the spring. But prosecutors still have to clear a legal hurdle before using the confession. At a hearing in March in State Supreme Court in Manhattan, Hernandez’s lawyer will seek to have the confession deemed illegitimate, in significant part because of the failure to record what went on in the Camden interrogation room.”

http://www.propublica.org/article/missing-a-boy-and-the-evidence-against-his-accused-killer

gh- this hits home for me big time, I spent 40 hours in class on interview and interrogation this Fall. I can tell you without question that this man’s confession will get tossed if these facts are correct.

There is plenty of case law to support it- and the minute cops drive a suspect from their residence to an interrogation without taping either the interview leading to the trip downtown- they are toast. Add his IQ, and chronic history to include schizo and now you have a situation where this man was also impaired- subject to a different protocol as well.

I would not be surprised to see an expert from Reid Institute hired for the defense in this case if it does not get tossed.

To your intended point of course, I believe strongly that the LE errors wrt RSE and TMH at a minimum, have injured this case without question- but Oregon does not require recording by statute.
B
T. Ruth says:

December 23, 2013 at 11:04 pm

My sources tell me that one of the witnesses slated for the now rescheduled hearing is the Horman’s Pediatrician. Gonna be confirming that conversation and the appointment was in fact scheduled.

B

*************

The hearing has been rescheduled? I read in the last news article that Kantor said it was postponed….”indefinitely”. When is the new temp custody hearing? Or are we speaking of the dissolution trial in Jan?

******************

And so, as Tiny Tim said, “A Merry Christmas to us all; God bless us, every one!” Dickens

My prayer:
May you all feel the comfort of family and friends and warmth this Christmas. It has been very nice to meet you, I wish you well, and may none of us ever, ever find ourselves not knowing where a loved one has gone, or accused of some crime we did not do. May God help us find Kyron and all other missing children. Amen. Merry Christmas.
Rose says:

December 23, 2013 at 11:43 pm

@ Blink. url above. Houze opining on Kelly’s loss.

“Houze sums it up rather well: “He used his considerable talents as an attorney to champion the causes of the powerless in as selfless a manner as I have ever witnessed.”

“”He was,” Stephen Houze, Clark’s defense attorney, said, “at the nadir of his existence.” Shattered. Bankrupt. Dishonored. Self-absorbed.”

It seems to me attorneys on opposite sides who share a commitment to ethics, competence, & have capacity (Lynch, Van Kleetch, Kelly, Houze) appreciate each other.
Then there are the baffoons.
Rose says:

December 23, 2013 at 11:48 pm

@TRuth. Iirc Kantor stuck temp custody in with the Jan 2-3 Dissolution (divorce/finance).
Iirc Bunch asked it be after that piece, so JK will probably put it before & eat up the time.
Imo JK has an “ADD to the max” relatedness to time. And the temp custody thing by now is not even about temp custody, but briefs on what RSE can testify to or be crossed about.
Imo only, JK creates an unnecessary hot mess worse than mcso.
Rose says:

December 23, 2013 at 11:51 pm

a reminder, someone at “the nadir of his existence”
busted the BSA in Court wrt sex abuse of minors.

Was a long time later, but absolutely. The hallows of that red file will ultimately be like finding unmarked graves. Mark my words- ( who came up with that saying?)
B
erose says:

December 24, 2013 at 12:00 am

Update on some Portland DEA agents, fwiw.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/dea_agents_finding_greener_job.html#incart_hbx#incart_best-of
Rose says:

December 24, 2013 at 12:20 am

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/us/kelly-clark-a-lawyer-who-won-a-pivotal-abuse-case-against-the-boy-scouts-dies-at-56.html

He does not even know the impact of that work, truly.

Thanks Rose.
B
tiberious says:

December 24, 2013 at 1:38 am

sorry if this sounds like a question from someone who does not follow the comments that have been posted on here, but can someone please explain the significance of the Horman pediatrician testifying about the doctor’s appt?

I know that the Kyron’s teacher used this as the excuse as to why she found nothing odd about him not being in class.

Wouldn’t this mean that if the doctor confirms the appointment then the teacher can claim her confusion was understandable or is it more that Terri was telling the truth and it lends more weight to the fact Terri did not lie?

Thanks much for whom ever supplies the answers to my questions. I just fail to understand exactly what is going on and need a little help.

1. Ms. Porter, to my knowledge, has never stated this directly to include a recent deposition where it is believed her atty responded to a reference to it as work product, iirc.

2. We learned this from a posting presumed to be TMH directly, and I believe an after the fact interview from a child witness.

3. In my interview with DDS, she confirmed TMH told her that she made an appt with the pediatrician on June 3rd, for June 11th, the following Friday, and let Ms. Porter know that when they dropped off the project in the gym. It included some sort of check of list regarding her observations she was asked to complete for him.

4. Upon a classmate counting in the group and realizing Kyron was not there, her response was that he was probably in the bathroom. By 10 am, with his jacket and his bookbag still there, he was marked absent.

5. You are absolutely correct that any confirmation of TMH scheduling that appointment and Ms. Porter’s misconstruing, or not hearing correctly the date mentioned by TMH is confirmation that TMH in no way tried to evade Kyron being detected as missing from the school. It could have been an honest mistake on Porter’s part- and LE framed the issue as to “motivation for a cover up” or whatever other nonsense was on their mind, but for me, confirmation that she never tried to explain why he would be missing the rest of the day.. without his belongings over the weekend he was going to his Mom’s no less takes away any notion of planning.

B
vw says:

December 24, 2013 at 4:36 am

@Rose

@TRuth. Iirc Kantor stuck temp custody in with the Jan 2-3 Dissolution (divorce/finance).
Iirc Bunch asked it be after that piece, so JK will probably put it before & eat up the time.
Imo JK has an “ADD to the max” relatedness to time. And the temp custody thing by now is not even about temp custody, but briefs on what RSE can testify to or be crossed about.
Imo only, JK creates an unnecessary hot mess worse than mcso.

####

Where was that? Don’t see it. No other hearing on the docket, so far.
IMO JK does not create, he reacts, and is not forward-minded
enough to see this through without a precedent to guide.
Based on my own humble thoughts taken from latest mission only. But Houze and Bunch were
not prepared for Engel’s Affidavit, filed the same day, nor his in-court attacks.
(Why, for example, did they NOT challenge the Engel’s allusion to motive as
TMH held the trump card….James and Kiara as full siblings reunited in Roseburg
if a divorce occured).

H/B must create that precedent, with or without JK, if necessary.

(But TMH and Kiara are continuing to be the victims of these legal games
…and my heart hurts for them and C&L this time of year).

Re: Kelly. He was lucky to get Houze. Houze quotes…excellent. Consistent with his
exemplary mission to facilitate redemption. Kelly was not popular here with
gay rights advocates. They didn’t deserve the sanctions of marriage according to him.

But, personal redemption and hitting hard the institutions protecting pediphiles…an eventual hero.
My condolences to his daughters.
Unfortunately, didn’t make a dent in the thousands upon thousands of peds flocking to Oregon
or within and not registering or being held accountable.
Rose says:

December 24, 2013 at 10:10 am

@vw.
“The trial on their divorce and financial matters is scheduled for Jan. 2. ”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/11/judge_allows_horman_divorce_tr.html
and, last paragraph of
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/terri_moulton_hormans_lawyers.html
T. Ruth says:

December 24, 2013 at 12:11 pm

Did Kyron know he had a doctor appointment for the following week?

I dunno.
B
lyla says:

December 24, 2013 at 2:10 pm

B
“4. Upon a classmate counting in the group and realizing Kyron was not there, her response was that he was probably in the bathroom. By 10 am, with his jacket and his bookbag still there, he was marked absent”
——————————————————————-
I understand Ms. Matthews gave Ky the okay to leave with a male on the pretense of helping him bring in the “cool electric one”. This brings me to wonder why Ky left the building on a cold, rainy day without grabbing his jacket. Food for thought. The plan went off without a hitch.

We don’t know the pretense for helping him get something out of his truck as it relates to a display or that room of displays. That room is below Ky’s homeroom where his jacket and backpack were. Ms. Matthews would likely not have known that.
B
Rose says:

December 24, 2013 at 3:04 pm

I would expect a pediatrician might say TH handled all the childrens’ medical appointments routinely, and Kaine did not. That she was observant & responsible about their medical needs & treatment follow through. And so on, testifying to the quality of her interaction with them.
A Texas Grandfather says:

December 24, 2013 at 3:16 pm

This case is turning into a mess. We have LE and officers of the court sticking their noses into a divorce case where they have no business being. All because a new judge without experience is unable to control his court.

The major job of LE in this case is to find Kyron. A job they have miserably failed to accomplish because they could not or would not take the steps to restart from the beginning. Even if they did restart, the same people will take the track of least resistance and nothing more will be accomplished. A new agency with experienced people in the field of solving crimes of missing persons is needed.

The school is the key beginning place and they are responsible for some of these problems including not protecting the children properly.

As Blink admits, it may take something from the state legislature in the form of laws and procedures to fix the broken methods of the present criminal justice system.

We should learn the most from our mistakes. Sometimes it takes exposure of the obstinateness and lack of experience in certain areas for society to demand changes. In the meantime, the people who care must suffer the consequences of incompetence or deliberate misconduct.
Panda says:

December 24, 2013 at 5:47 pm

This prompts a question I’ve had for a while, and I imagine I’m not the only one. Respectfuly, is it acceptable to post here if you question TH’s involvement? If not, I would like to know, as I’m sure others would also. If my questioning TH’s involvement is not allowed, I will stop.

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grasshopper says:
December 23, 2013 at 5:03 pm
@Mom3.0

Snipped

I simply don’t understand your continuing insistence that T MIGHT be guilty.

Panda- you follow here so you already know that is not a question and there are many posters on here that have varying positions.

B
Rose says:

December 24, 2013 at 5:50 pm

excellent comment Grasshopper.

My take is the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, like Rees &
Woods from Schrunk, & Schrunk from a mayor of yore;
pollution (the ends justifies the means) ripples downward & outward.
There’s no R Kennedy willing to take on his own party,
the apparent Democratic cesspool of Portland, today.

VW, in a WW profile Kelly said he repped the anti gay marriage
legislation group because of how the County Commissioners passed the legislation–
violating their own rules, without any public input. Cogen-esquely.
He himself was pro civil union. He felt public process & due process mattered.