Dr. Phil Show Hosts Missing Portland Child Kyron Horman’s Step Mom Terri Horman Over Two Episodes
I have been covering this case since Kyron Horman disappeared from Skyline School in June, 2010. Like most missing persons cases I have covered in the past, I am of the strong opinion that best efforts at the truth are the only way to propel investigations that, similarly to Kyron’s, have gone cold for one reason or another. This approach has worked in resolving some of my previous cases. I am proud of that. I remain steadfast to the integrity involved in those and future cases.
Over the past 10 months (or so) I have been developing an updated series on Kyron’s case to include my multiple interviews with Kyron’s step-mom, Terri Horman. Needless to say as she was the subject of at least three simultaneous cases before an Oregon court and remains a person of interest by the agency investigating her sons disappearance, this has been an arduous and sometimes delicate journey. Ms. Horman’s experiences during the ongoing investigation of the disappearance of Kyron Horman are critically important to propelling his case and with great hope- finding the truth about what happened to this cherubic and innocent child. There are dozens of sources, collateral interviews, forensic experts and legal analysts that also contribute to my series and have done so because of their belief that my motivation is to bring to light information and opinions in such a way that would almost “require” a focused review of Kyron’s case and the likely shaking of that proverbial tree everyone talks about.
Set to publish about 6-ish weeks ago I was asked to postpone the first installment of the series, which I did. I subsequently learned Ms. Horman was participating in the Dr. Phil program after she completed taping. Dr. Phils producers were well aware that Ms. Horman had interviewed with me extensively, and anticipated my series would be publishing information that was not known to the public previously in the days prior to her scheduled episode. When Ms. Horman conveyed to me that she feels obligated to speak out about “her son” in any national medium that will have her, I most certainly respected that. I still do.
While Dr. Phil seems like a gregarious fellow for sure, I have zero interest in being associated with his program, nor do I believe his shows content is designed to do any furtherance of investigation or truth. There is much concern (although I have no affiliation to the show whatsoever) that the timing of the publication of my series on the Kyron Horman matter might be interpreted differently or inadvertently contribute to the programs content or audience reactions. Not what I signed on for. A missing 7 year old boy six years running is not a framework for entertaining a target audience. He is not fodder for online social media bully campaigns- yet it occurs.
I will be publishing my series on Kyron’s case at a later date, in it’s entirety with no editing adjustments as a result of any of the appearances on Dr. Phil. I appreciate your patience and your understanding. Feel free to discuss the show below.
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FWIW, EM’s Mother:
Beloved mother, grandmother, sister, aunt and friend, Caroline, of Smyrna, Wash., passed away June 22, 2007.
Caroline is survived by three siblings, Katherine Gehrts of Seattle, Bill Gulden (Adele) of Seattle and Joe Gulden (Donna) of Federal Way; her six children and their spouses, John Mathews (Naomi) of Pasco, Beth Shedden (Jerry) of Fairfield, Calif., Easter Mathews (Tony Grover) of Portland, Ore., Mitch Mathews (Kathy) of Moses Lake, Camas Poplaski of Moses Lake, and Claudia Peterson (Paul) of Satsop, Wash.; her grandchildren, Gordon, Adam,and Michael Mathews; Cody and Sarah Mathews; Chris Poplaski; Katie and Karl Peterson.
http://www.columbiabasinherald.com/community/obituaries/article_a389e21f-44f2-524b-887e-1a25fbeaabe9.html
********
I can’t remember what town KH was from in WA? Was Federal Way one of the towns? Can’t remember anymore.
This is probably going nowhere anyway, but there is a connection somehow in EM’s family to a “Lutz” family.
Edward J Lutz ~90
Royal City, WA
Known as:
Ed Lutz
Related to:
Timothy L Mathews, 61 Tom Lutz, 32 Kathleen M Mathews, 59 Easter J Mathews, 64 Rita R Lutz, 66 Andrew T Mathews, 37 Nathan L Mathews, ~30 Anthony J Lutz, 46 Bonnie G Lutz, 64 Ellen M Mathews, 57
http://radaris.com/~Edward-Lutz/1674421335
I only bring this up because, grasshopper mentioned this from the days in court:
grasshopper says:
September 13, 2013 at 4:50 pm
Attended the hearing. pages and pages of notes. will try to hit on high points.
official attendees were Judge kantor, counsel for Multnomah county, Houze and Bunch, Engel and Kaine, DA Reese and someone with him (couldn’t hear her name, sounded like Lutz), Cavanaugh representing school district. spectators consisted of several reporters, a couple more from DA’s office in back, others unknown to me.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-kyron-horman-investigation-exclusive-dede-spicher-interview-yields-allegations-of-illegal-steroid-use-terri-horman-took-to-police/comment-page-4/
I thought onery was a Texas word used mostly of curmudgeons, but I came on the TX sidefrom rural farm folks. I bite on realistic & plainspoken rather than onery. There is much to be critical of in ALL Oregon press coverage of Kyron (and now the BOE “investigation”) coverages. Only Pitkin never lied and sought facts. I finally read Barnes’ self-congratulatory review of her own reporting. This look back at how I reported is all the vogue since Fahrenthold won his Pultizer for his innovative investagatory method (twitter) and wrote his own look backs. One real informant/victim said “do not contact me” in her email, so Barnes followed her “gut”, did, & cajoled her. So any correspondent coukd say do not contact me, or do not disclose my e-address to yr editor or colleagues and have no confidence in her adherence, especially when she writes her retroview and quotes your email.
My mother, born in Texas and living in New Mexico later, called me ornery since I was young girl. I try to keep my ornery side in check and always think of her when I hear the word. I think I will let my ornery side out now because I have earned it.
Blink…I am watching the Delphi case closely. All the little pieces could fit for this DN hatchet guy. I am trying to stay open minded and not jump to conclusions, thanks to you. The one employer said the last they had heard of him he was doing construction- I think he “skipped town” a few days after the suspected sketch was released in the Delphi case. If this is the guy than what would be your takeaway of the importance of the sketch. He looks just like the sketch. It is making me a little crazy because I want justice for the family of these two best friend kids that were murdered.
Lol Ode. I have never been called ornery per se, but all the brilliant people I know have, so its a definite goal.
o/t:
I hope its ok I modified your post ever so slightly to protect your anonymity.
I am not sure I even know where to start on Daniel Nations, but your question was what would my takeaway be if the sketch was “him”. To my knowledge, the sketch developed in the German/Williams murders was based on an eyewitness who “may not be sure about the type of hat” in the drawing. Personally, I do not believe there was an eyewitness who saw the offender, but it was a captured image from some source made into a rendering. That sketch was meticulously detailed and released to identify what I believe was a suspect known to LE they had been unable to develop leads on. I have read that the day after the sketch was released LE was at Nations job site- do we really think LE is acting that quickly on a known RSO who stopped checking in April, but was on a job site through July? His wife had a baby in April, he stopped mandatory check ins of homeless RSO’s in April, and he resembled the sketch. Did you check out his criminal records? How the eff did this guy not have his probation revoked more than once? I fear I have an answer to that and it resembles the knowledge to commit crimes in counties and states that don’t link databases, apparently.
Not much else to say at this point except I recall the second I viewed the sketch of Morgan Harrington’s killer I knew it was him dead cold. I knew. Jesse Mathew went underground for a bit, but not really to anyone that knew him- another offender who evaded detection due to a plea bargain from a felony case.
One thing we have learned (if true) is that there is DNA evidence believed to belong to the killer of the girls that should be available and in CODIS. I have heard his Father is in jail for life (have not fact checked that) so it begs the question- I wonder if familial DNA will be part of this?
SO long way around to answer your question, but my takeaway if Nations is responsible for the Delphi girls murders, the sketch was a brilliant move to progress the case and I would hope when that comes out in court it was preformed legally and admissably. I am not at a point yet where I think they have their guy- as hopeful as I am, I feel the video of the alleged offender has about 30-40 lbs on this guy. That said, as we have discussed in other cases, offenders frequently try to evade detection by altering appearance in some fashion.
Releasing the sketch at the point in the investigation they did is a common FBI strategy- and my sources have always indicated the FBI is heavily involved in this case from a BAU perspective as they should be. Overall, if Nations is responsible on paper he is inline with a typical BAU profile pre offense to escalation. If he is not, he is creepy af and it looks like a cyclist killer anyway so he needs to be locked up- society needs protection from this predator.
B
Rose, are you looking for this guy?
The following is current information* regarding
Louis N Terrones
Most recent application materials pertaining to this file were received on 7/16/2007
We are currently processing application materials that were received by TSPC on 7/26/2017.
Educational Employer George Middle School (2015 – 2016)
Teacher License
License Type Effective Expiration Status Image
Initial II Teaching 10/15/2013 10/14/2016 Expired NO
Endorsements Authorization Level(s) *
Special Education ML/HS, ECE/ELE L
========= End of Teacher License Information ==========
Teacher License
License Type Effective Expiration Status Image
Initial I Teaching 8/26/2009 10/14/2010 Expired NO
Endorsements Authorization Level(s) *
Special Education ML/HS, ECE/ELE L
========= End of Teacher License Information ==========
Teacher License
License Type Effective Expiration Status Image
Initial Teaching 8/10/2007 2/10/2009 Expired NO
Endorsements Authorization Level(s) *
Special Education ML/HS, ECE/ELE L
========= End of Teacher License Information ==========
* Authorization Level Codes Authorization Description
ECE/ELE L To teach {endorsement} at grades pre-kindergarten through 8.
ML/HS To teach {endorsement} at grades 5 through 12 in an elementary, middle, junior, or high school
Special Education ML/HS, ECE/ELE L
========= End of Teacher License Information ==========
* Authorization Level Codes Authorization Description
ECE/ELE L To teach {endorsement} at grades pre-kindergarten through 8.
ML/HS To teach {endorsement} at grades 5 through 12 in an elementary, middle, junior, or high school
http://www.tspc.oregon.gov/lookup_application/LDisplay.asp
ot why isn’t and didn’t the Mult Cty Chair Kafoury rfp this CA firm to evaluate its
mcso investigative practices like Clackamus did & is?
http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2017/10/police_consultants_propose_wid.html#incart_river_mobile_home
I get Reese is her hand pick, but that’s putting a too small
stopper in a cesspool magnum, an analogy she should get.
I suppose it’s bcz his former appointive platformand current elective platform is mental health, homelessness & sanctuary city. None of which are in his deputy investigations division portfolio. His biggest job is Corrections. The Commissioners shoukd contract with this firm for a result before the 2018 election. That is if good governance is a Chair value.
It appears that the consultant firm in Rose’s link want to cover a lot more than MCSO wanted investigated. A $40,000 contract is not large enough to cover very much.
I think most of us would like to see an in-depth review of all practices under MCSO supervision. IMO it is needed to clean up some very poor practices and could expose a large lack of training in some critical areas.
TRUth, Perhaps this is the Lutz?
https://www.linkedin.com/in/trent-lutz-b197a85
I think Mengals (sp?) were from Maple Valley.
Trent Lutz’s sister is listed from Federal Way.
http://www.startribune.com/obituaries/detail/54807/?fullname=micheal-mike-lutz
@aTG. the CA firm is being hired by Clackamus Comms 2 look at their Sheriff Dept investigations—-
—–
I always thot Neil & Kristi dumped their spouses in Spokane where he went 2 college at WA State. Kurtis was from Clarkston. Kaine is a Mengel. But since Kurtis lived in Seattle for a time, maybe they met there. I always thot maybe his missus1 had mental illness or something since Topher wasn’t allowed 2 see her til he independently went as a married adult with kids. Whatever, Neil needed a carer 4 two young boys, and Kristi jumped in, and brought her 2 boys. I guess Neil loved having little boys around. So I thot Kaine was Clarkston or Spokane born. only a birth cert knows 4 sure. . Mengel’s parents once lived 50 mi north of Seattle, but now with him in Idaho. Given his closeness w/his son’s family, guess he wasn’t Kristian’s gf abuser then.
I wonder how Grasshopper is in the State of Colorado?
I’ll look up that case. now yall have me scared bcz my dau is in an airbnb longterm, & they just moved in (shared bathroom) a “redneck from Missouri here for 3 weeks, construction.” Says his wife is visiting family in China. It just now occurred to me bcz no the checks on airbnb tenants, just like a motel, he could be a SO on the lam or domestic abuser.
———
I thot every little girl in TX pre60s was called ornery by her mother.
I bet growing up in an orphanage my brilliant mother was called that a lot.
She passed it on, but my memory is TX mothers quit calling us that when about age 11.
Interesting because I developed use of the word for my Poppa (maternal grandfather, decorated WWII Marine vet) I thought I came up with a good term to describe him because he was unearthly brilliant about every little thing, but it seemed until I grew up a bit to teach him differently, a bit of a misogynist. He actually was just raised as an old school southern gentleman but not from the south so it was more likely a military training thing from his own Father (former WWI decorated Army vet AND percussionist and orchestra leader). I look back now and I applied the term to mean “ornery” because in my mind and in his expression it seemed to me that as he gained and shared his vast knowledge freely he became somewhat impatient of those that did not embrace life’s lessons and gifts as they came to them. I can definitely be guilty of the latter, lol. I hope I did not offend anyone with my use of the term, as you can see it is quite an endearment/compliment to me.
B
imo some of his pics are
the look of meth. Certainly ought
to be locked up for something for good.
Thank you TRuth. You are mistress of the OR licensing database….
when I read in WA to teach one only needed a teaching cert at some point plus 3 years of teaching on it, from out of state, I wondered if OR was the same and if Terrones taught on his CA license at Skyline.
2007 was his initial year in PPS iirc, so likely his Initial was on his CA license. His Spec Ed was on the CA lic.
I guess I wondered why he followed Keefer to a hard school like George from a sweet spot like Skyline, espec when the SPED population and number of paras fell dramatically at Skyline in the years after the abduction. And, then when Keefer left George for an equally impoverished minority middle, he decaped a year later for Vancouver. And on what license.
Maybe erose has an opinion about pay for special educators in WA vs OR, but it does seem odd at his age to leave the OR retirement system with 9 years in. At the HS level, he very likely ahs a self-contained room.
Initial I expired in Oct 2010. He left Skyline with Keefer for George at the end of that school year in 2011. His initial II was obtained in Oct 2013. Did Keefer let him teach in the interim under him at Skyline and George from Oct 2010-Oct2013. Seems more sensible that Initial I was renewed for those 3 years.
It looks like the Initial II teaching lic was expiring in Oct 2016. I don’t recall if he went to Vancouver in 16-17 (I think so).
What is TSPC? Looks like appl materials were submitted on 7/26/17.
It feels like he went to teach in WA because he had not been relicensed in OR after l0/16 timely. What is the next license after Initial II or how often can an initial II be renewed? Maybe he plans to return to OR PERS after that 7/26/17 appl is acted on. With teachers supposedly in short supply, why isn’t the OR licensing agency faster, or a masters level teacher more timely re lic apps?
this is TSPC lists types of licenses
http://www.oregon.gov/tspc/pages/index.aspx
https://www.pdx.edu/education/become-a-teacher?utm_source=Carnegie&utm_campaign=GTEP&utm_medium=PPC
Good grief. Any BA/S can get an Oregon Initial I and
Masters degree in one calendar year. Why’d Terri do
all that work?
TSPC site says it renews within 4-6 weeks. Stumbling block could be a hefty quantity of CEUs over a 3 year period.
One of things I’ve been thinking about a couple days is how DY so completely fused, publically, with a severe personality disorder who talks and foments violence even if it’s only mostly verbal. Granted the relationship involves
money and the prospect of more, and a colleague in stalking, but it seems to me this would be hardly the first adult relationship of that nature most “fusers” would have. We know she took up with Kaine who some would argue has a PD. So, I’m wondering about l or more prior boyfriends, ie the one who held such sway over her that she signed two boys over to their fathers and left town with him.
Did they break up amicably Blin? Did he have a PD type lifestyle (drugs, any criminal record)? Had he no reason to “follow” her life, to follow her, to become angry when she finally married Tony? Was he ever vetted by MCPS (whereabouts on 6/4)?
Not sure I want to characterize that break up because I only have one side of it- , and it ended within months, but there is no indication I have learned anything I would consider tangential to Kyron’s disappearance or behavior of concern in that regard. ( past the relinquishing of custody and inventive public reason for same) I don’t agree or identify with what she did in any way, but as an imperfect parent I have no right to judge anyone either. In some respects, if DY identified she was unable to care for her sons properly at the time, I have nothing but complete respect for her acknowledging that and putting them first instead of exposing them directly to a failed paternal figure. I have seen the damage single Mom’s intent on using their kids to punish their dads (and the reverse of course) can inflict and it can be devastating- most especially when you consider the ages of the kids. Ripping the kids away is no answer and incredibly selfish.
B
ot I guess I mistyped my email when replying
to TRuth on the license.
Ode
The word ornery used by many Texas moms was a synonym for independent. A child or an adult that didn’t follow the norm of expected behavior. Our oldest child was independent from the time he was three. He wanted to do it himself without and help from mom or dad or anyone else. If mom intervened,he would say “I do it myself”.
In regards to the sketch being accurate. Some people have very good visual memory. These people are able to describe something or someone very accurately or to a point where a sketch artist is able to come very close to the actual person or thing. Then with some additional refinement from the witness, clean up the sketch to make it more accurate.
I don’t have any idea of how many or what percentage of people have this ability. I think that a test might be to ask yourself if you as an adult, are able to remember places and events in your life from a time earlier than age five or six. This must be something that an adult did not tell you about when one is older.
ot James Fallon’s research has sensitized me. I suspect the LV shooter
has the dna profile of a psychopath, and it sounds like his limbic system did too (low engagement, low profike). On what planet was he “in sheep’s clothing” as a atV head said? A decades-long addictive video, computer, & casino gambler by definition imo has a PD of some sort, I’m betting antisocial.
o/t: Agreed entirely. It should not have been a question of “if” but “when” and I suppose to what degree the “act”.
Frankly, when assessing profiles of violent offenders that term has always confused me unless it applies to the innocent public who has never encountered one. Fallon’s work is never far from my mind nor Hare’s – Hare finds a dx of psychopath highly genetic. This is a textbook case, apparently. In criminology we need to stop the broken window excuse in some cases and look to organic/systemic scientific possibility. The makings of a perfect storm. How do we protect society from that? I don’t have that answer but what will it take to ask the question?
B
ot here’s an example of Shrunk-Frink not filing sex abuse charges where tge 7 reporters were underage girls. Vague, poor jury witnesses as girls. Took awhile for justice. http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2017/10/oregon_court_of_appeals_affirm.html#incart_river_mobile_home
—-
ot The Q with LV shooter is why was he suicidal?
That was his steak. The homicides at loci he
loved (country music shows, casinos)
were merely his appetizer.
ot from an O story today:
“The FBI’s Most Wanted poster said Paddock had been diagnosed as a psychopath with suicidal tendencies who was armed during several bank robberies.” ran a fixed bingo parlor in OR.
Father-Son Commonalities: 1) use of firearms directed at people in commission of crime; 2) desire 2 control gambling environments; 3) attempts to “break the bank (settings differ, same MO);!4) suicidal.
Big Q re trigger: father’s death, or anniversary of it.
I would note from a criminologist perspective I can tell you that once we see suicidal and homicidal ideations in an almost interchangeable way- its a simple matter of time. A good example of such an observation which was reported to police by an individual’s therapist is that of Aurora shooter JH (name redacted as I do not believe in publicizing the names of mass murderers as part of their motivation is infamy). University were warned he was dangerous by Dr. Fenton about a month prior to the act- and if anyone has ever read JH’s diary or drawings (floabw) it is beyond alarming.
Fenton saw the illness(s) percolating. Btw- JH was a neuroscience student failing out. You want to talk about a kid with every sign that should have ended in him being wrapped in “caution” tape? I am not trained to dx these types, just to analyze causation and profile, but having read that manifesto I doubt very much it needs my education, training or experience. What else can you do when someone tells you they are about to kill others in a very large way, has the Dx to back it up, and you report your concerns as your license requires?
B
ot http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2017/10/us_supreme_court_declines_case.html#incart_river_mobile_home_pop
imo States’ statutory rights trumping Constitutional review in this Court.
Agreed- that ununaminous is unconstitutional, imo.
B
O/T
Ornery.
bad-tempered and combative.
“some hogs are just mean and ornery”
synonyms: grouchy, grumpy, cranky, crotchety, cantankerous, bad-tempered, ill-tempered, dyspeptic, irascible, waspish; More
truculent, cussed, stubborn
“they finally realized that his illness was what had made him so ornery”
stubborn.
“taking the singer’s ornery radicalism in a different direction”
My middle name, not cantankerous, but stubborn. Oh yes. I’m sure you’ve all heard “ornery as mule”. Well, back in my riding days I preferred to ride a mule over a horse any day. Why? Because mules are not being stubborn, they’re being smart. Most mules I ever met and had the opportunity to share a ride with, were waaaay smarter than your average horse. When riding on trails, if a a mule senses danger to themselves, they will go off trail and go around things that any other horses’ ass would just follow the tail in front of them even if there were a swarm of yellow jackets lying in wait. So true. So being ornery, as in stubborn and taking one’s own path IMO can be both brilliant and self preserving.
bad-tempered and combative.
“some hogs are just mean and ornery”
synonyms: grouchy, grumpy, cranky, crotchety, cantankerous, bad-tempered, ill-tempered, dyspeptic, irascible, waspish; More
truculent, cussed, stubborn
“they finally realized that his illness was what had made him so ornery”
stubborn.
“taking the singer’s ornery radicalism in a different direction”
(Another thing I always liked about Mules is they never trot when they can walk, and they would rather lope or run than trot as well. I hated trotting.)
Lol- so to repeat, everyone knows I meant it as a well earned compliment, right, ?
B
O/T
Las Vegas shooter. Why suicide? Perhaps he was on the same anti-depressant drugs as the Aurora killer, the Sandy Hook killer, or the Roseburg killer. Makes me wonder every time I hear a commercial for these anti-depressants and big pharmas that make them, because in every single commercial they say these drugs may cause suicidal tendencies. It’s like they KNOW they cause suicidal tendencies and are trying to cover their big pharma azzes.
Disclaimer: I have worked on some major drug launch campaigns and in the Pharma branding agency sector in my previous career to include trials/monitoring and new indications in the HRT, fertility and allergen areas. When we get into the psychotropic meds field- my experience is in analysis as it relates to specific criminology profiles. MANY of the meds in this class already have extensive black box warnings (FDA required labeling and disclosure, not just a contraindication warning). In some mental Dx (cannot clinically call them neuro), many meds are a sort of trial and error situation and can take weeks to “load” and function either properly or improperly to require adjustments or even changes and then we are talking starting the cycle all over again. I cannot stress enough two factors- 1. This REQUIRES a very experienced and skilled physician team with close monitoring of the patient. 2. Many patients with such Dx requiring such care have extreme difficulty keeping with a strict protocol through the load and eval phases. It can be very dangerous when someone has to be weaned from this drugs as well- probably more dangerous to them then the initial script because it has been discovered to be causing other unwanted symptoms of some kind- this can result in the preference of in patient care- which many patients do not have the luxury of proper insurance or frankly, are feeling dismayed they will ever be “well”. I don’t think we know yet what the “medical status” of the LV shooter was, but like you, it holds great interest for me. Having presented what is called “medical content” for the above areas directly to the FDA previously, I can tell you (at least early to mid 2000) this was a critical area and “Pharma” was even more risk averse than the FDA- pipelines were very lean. I think the data will support me when I say that if monitored effectively and carefully, most psychotropes have been very helpful to those in need of them (you’ve heard the expression off their meds, this is why) the problem develops in the proper Dx, scripting, monitoring and patient compliance.
That said- if the shooter was a true socio/psychopath as far as I am concerned there is absolutely no treatment for such a Dx as an adult. (Hare, Meloy) Best read ever on the issue as it relates nature/nurture dilema is James Fallon- The Psychopath inside. You are right to ask these questions- this does not happen by a 64 y old in a vaccum.
B
EM:
We are not processing any applications for this person at this time.
LT:
We are currently processing application materials that were received by TSPC on 7/26/2017.
*************
IDK, rose, I wish MbS was back here or VW, they could answer questions re the teaching licenses, but the above on LT sound to me like he is coming back to Oregon. ??
Rose, No opinion, but this site says OR -3% national average, WA +3%. A difference of $3K in 2015.
http://www.salarybystate.org/education-training/special-education-teacher-salary-by-state
that’s a 6% differential. worth moving for if at a youngish age, say < 40.
My curiosity is: were Mastin, Terrones, Mathews, & whoever else from
Skyline separated for another State voluntary? Makes are hard to find
in SPED, much less hispanic males.. You’d think PPS
would’ve done a lot to keep him. But no one can accuse
PPS HR of rational behavior.
EM formally retired.
“Lol- so to repeat, everyone knows I meant it as a well earned compliment, right, ?
B”
Of course. That’s why we joke about it. Actually ATG hit perfectly on the definition we
Texans grew up with: highly independent thinkers. Which your Poppa must have seen in you
Blink too.
xo.
B
nice mule analysis TRuth
In looking a T. Ruth’s list for behavior descriptions for the word ornery it matches all my dictionary listings except for my big ten pound one that listed “independent” as the last entry. I rather suspect that Texas and other southern moms used the word when they had a child that did not follow instructions when given. That makes it a local expression that is commonly used.
A mule is created by breeding a donkey to a horse. Up until recent times mules were sterile and still only a few are not. The increased intelligence of a mule must rest with the donkey. Although, most donkeys fit the ornery class.
Drugs that are used to treat mental conditions in humans are very dangerous. Most of them should never be prescribed for use outside of a carefully controlled environment. Every human is a unique being that carries DNA from their heritage. Some people because of this inheritance do not respond in a good way to this class of medications. The side effects of being “on the meds” or “off the meds” create these dangerous behaviors.
Only an ornery person would speculate on a stranger in the absence of facts, but my eye was caught by TRuth’s mention of medication, which has been published. Prescribed in June, apparently, by a GP internist. IMO this meticulous planner sought the prescription out deliberately as part of his methodical planning, since medication could be and has been used as a defense to violent acts. My own opinion is he probably dumped it in the toilet, being antisocial. My other opinion is this was an act he contemplated, over and over, for decades, probably back to the 80s when his employment and work settings involving others ceased. Idk why he is characterized as a retiree or successful at work. He couldn’t hold a job or a profession long term. He certainly relied on his ability with numbers to get jobs, but I suspect he had reading difficulties, otherwise he was bright enough for a better college degree and career track. His OPM file probably shows iffy perf reviews. And, he didn’t last long in the private sector. The story about the “privacy fence” out front his HOA obviously made him remove reflects his antisocial trait. I seem to recollect a housing crash about the time he stopped working in the 80s;; maybe it affected his entry level “properties.” Personally, I think he planned this for decades, and I am reminded of the UT Tower shooter who was up high. He apparently bought 33 guns in the last year, but he had 20 others. However, personally, I attribute the advancement and solidification of his “exit plan” in the last year to the election. I’d like to know the date of the first of his purchases in the last year. would also like to know date of father’s death in 1998, and if he had any interaction with him post prison release.
___________________
OTOT recently heard something on NPR about how GPs and internists are in the majority in the US of those prescribing these drugs, just like in the Paddock case, and I hope vics survivors sue Dr.Winkler.
I agree with Blink, if one is in the type of major depression meriting an antidepressant prescription, then one merits it in an acute care diagnostic inpatient setting for skilled observations of response to treatment. Furthermore, Paddock or any patient’s claim of “anxiety” could have been (but imo in his case it wasn’t) concommitant with a mood disorder. one sure doesn’t want to cause an adverse mood swing with medication. once upon a time (recently) a college student told an internist she felt “stress” and was “anxious” about upcoming auditions. he gave her 90(!!) (three months!) l0 mg lexapros to take out of town across the country without further followup planned. Here’s the thing: there was no diagnosis of Major Depression or Major Generalized Anxiety (which he was incapable of making anyway.) (Since I had been with this person fulltime for a couple weeks, I KNEW neither existed, but I was unaware.) When I found out six months later, I knew a competent psychiatrist would’ve started at 2.5 mg, and titrated up to 5 mg before ever reaching l0. And would never dish more than l0 to l4 pills initially, and would observe at least twice a week for euphoria. someone becoming hypomanic or manic just loves it most likely and is not self-aware. Said student stayed on it thru auditions, then quit cold turkey (also dangerous). Manic (without psychosis but crazy enough) she bombed the auditions and destroyed her reputation in her school. As it happens she landed by a fluke with a foremost performer and outstanding teacher in a setting with lots of opportunity. But she still does not understand the lexapro made her behaviorally mentally ill. Someone adversely affected by Lexapro, who becomes hyperelated, has zero insight and does not realize they are self-harming. So, I found the NPR story that over 50% of these types of meds are prescribed by nonpsychiatric physicians very alarming.
O/T
The LV shooter. Interestingly saw a video on the news this morning that Diane Fienstien said her daughter (and family?) and another family were going to attend the LV concert, but for some reason didn’t or couldn’t. Then I read in an article this morning that the shooter/murderer had booked a room at a hotel in August in Chicago that overlooked a concert attended by one of President Obama’s daughters.
Makes one wonder if this dude was obsessed with some political agenda.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/05/las-vegas-shooter-had-booked-room-augchicago-augumay-have-had-help-but-investigators-have-no-idea-wh/734824001/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories
The lineup for the festival included artists Lorde, Chance the Rapper and Arcade Fire. Among the attendees at the festival was former President Obama’s daughter, Malia. Some 100,000 people turned out each day for the event, according to local media.
(snipped)
A contraction of ordinary, hardly describes this bunch. Just thought this was a fun article for ornery folks to disagree, lol.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=ornery
oops, here’s the article.
http://ornery.org/about.html
SNAP! Love it.
B
gosh, third strike, this is the one I want you all to read.
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=5584
OH MAH GAWD- READ THIS without taking a sip of anything (like coffee) first.
LOL LOL, brilliant find erose. I had not contemplated the mischievous prankster possibility as well. It tracks with my families “ornery” lineage. When I was a kid, the last time I remember seeing my great grandfather he had pulled up to my grandparents where I was sitting in the mulberry tree with a friend in an antique pick up with an open coffin and a dummy in the back with the name of his orchestra painted on the side. I ran screaming in the house of course.
B
excellent site erose. ATG, see Brendan in Comments.
“congenitally contrary” is closest to “independent.”
Fallon was on cnn at 7; maybe they repeat late nite. Missed 99% but I gather he said Stephen = an addictive personality numbed to the diet of gambling, liquor etc sought new extreme stimulation. He referred to brain’s “hedonist hotspot.”
——
With meds talk, it occurred to me yesterday gee whiz, no wonder Kaine mentioned Terri was medicated for depression & Dr said he should “watch” her. Very superior he is to her in the Dr’s eyes.
He was telling the public she was dangerous, kneecapping her figuratively.
How manipulative.
But for your word, Blink, Kaine’s statements about Terri from the get go implicate him in that they seem characteristic of his meticulous planning to id her as suspect, along the lines of Fallon’s characteristic of a psychpath set in a family (I reread his description of himself & his family last night). He’d always made his wife & kids missrable thru narcissism & no empathy, they told him.
@erose says:
October 5, 2017 at 10:18 pm
Thanks for that link, erose. Reminds me how differently things are done here too. I especially loved this:
7. We know that good, wise people sometimes disagree. So we listen to the views of others, and have no patience with those who shout others down or use ridicule or coercion to silence serious arguments. Only fanatics and dictators assume that anyone who disagrees with them must be evil or stupid.
If only we had leaders within our nation who would follow all of those points. Here’s to a society of honorable “ornerables”!
Another creep made his way into our schools.
snips>
Thomas Guy, 58, of Ballwin, was charged with one count of promoting child pornography and three counts of possession of child pornography, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.
According to police, the suspect owns a media company called “The Media Guy,” which produces video presentations for schools that focus on drug abuse, bullying, peer pressure, and healthy living, Fox 2 Now reported.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/missouri-man-hit-with-child-porn-charges-after-police-reportedly-discover-thousands-of-images-on-home-computers/ar-AAt0lou?li=BBnbfcL
NEWARK, N.J. – A music teacher and singer-songwriter who performs for children at synagogues, Jewish community centers, camps and conventions nationwide is facing child pornography charges.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/19/childrens-singer-songwriter-facing-child-porn-charges.html
@erose says:
October 5, 2017 at 10:19 pm
Interesting comments on all the different meanings and pronunciations as well. I think I pronounce it both of the following ways, depending upon my usage.
Speaking in the abstract, I would likely use a two syllable pronunciation; “He’s an awn-ree old cuss.” But if I’m speaking directly to someone, I’d likely say; “Quit being so awn-er-ee”.
Don’t ask me why. I’m just weird that way.
Lots of child porn arrests. So many with jobs close to kids.
Disney worker.
http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/crime/article177029841.html
@Rose says:
October 5, 2017 at 3:47 am
“So, I found the NPR story that over 50% of these types of meds are prescribed by nonpsychiatric physicians very alarming.”
***********
As do I, and like you, I have witnessed the happenstance “monitoring” that goes along with it. Thank God, HIPPA laws do still allow us to talk to another patient’s doctor. They cannot talk to us about the patient, but we can always talk to a loved one’s doctor or write to them and express any concern. They don’t have to listen of course, but sometimes that’s what it takes to help out when one is bearing witness to the possible adverse reactions of such potent, mind altering drugs. And yes, those drugs should be weaned on and weaned off, but there are doctors out there who either don’t think it’s necessary or don’t give a chit.
O/T, but this story reminds me of the old brothers up in WA. Insane.
“During their investigation, police found videos on Madsen’s personal computer of women being tortured, decapitated and murdered. The videos were considered to be real, according to prosecutor Jakob Buch-Jepsen.”
(snipped)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/07/danish-divers-find-head-legs-missing-swedish-journalist-weighted-plastic-bag/742515001/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories
Makes me sick. Such a beautiful young woman. RIP
One thing I will tell you is I have a friend who is pretty close to this case, and I knew immediately when I read they had arrested him and did not buy his story there had to be some reason it heightened so quickly- it was the computer content. There is a very strong feeling this is not his first victim.
B
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/08/sheriffs_office_wont_say_why_i.html
This is an old story ^^^, but I noticed that both Aimee Greene and another reporter from WW did a public records request at the DA’s office for a list of all MCSO Officers on paid leave after this report. Underhill granted it, but MCSO is not required to tell them what the background was for said leaves. Heck, I’d just like to see the names and the dates.
I think the link I gave may be wrong.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/08/sheriffs_office_wont_say_why_i.html