Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: Will a Conviction in Fraud Case Hemorrage the Defense Fund?
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Orlando, FL– Since the State Attorney’s office filed their motion to proceed in the forgery, theft and fraud case against her, I have been positive this legal maneuver was the equivalent of bringing a bazooka to a thumb wrestling match.
Doesn’t it appear that that bell just re-rung when the motion to proceed to trial on the economic crimes was granted?
Casey Anthony is facing 13 felony charges of forgery, petty theft and ID theft; to be scheduled for trial in the near future per Stan Strickland’s remarks in his motion response.
The ripple effect most consider “chump change” when weighing the murder indictment and possible death penalty conviction; I disagree.
The outcome of her economic charges trial may very well seal the fate of the murderl trial. Precisely the resounding defense’s worst nightmare for a bevy of reasons.
Son of Sam Law
Florida Statute 944.512
944.512 State lien on proceeds from literary or other type of account of crime for which convicted.
–
(1) A lien prior in dignity to all others shall exist in favor of the state upon royalties, commissions, proceeds of sale, or any other thing of value payable to or accruing to a convicted felon or a person on her or his behalf, including any person to whom the proceeds may be transferred or assigned by gift or otherwise, from any literary, cinematic, or other account of the crime for which she or he was convicted. A conviction shall be defined as a guilty verdict by a jury or judge, or a guilty or nolo contendere plea by the defendant, regardless of adjudication of guilt. The lien shall attach at the time of the conviction in county or circuit court. In the event of an appeal, the funds will be held in the Revolving Escrow Trust Fund of the Department of Legal Affairs until the appeal is resolved.
Sweet Mary. Regardless of how the court arrives at “guilty”, the second she is, the State can slap a lien on her “ASSets” . It does not matter who they may have been transferred to ( George, Cindy, Lee, Jose).
The beauty is, the State already knows what they are looking for based on the in-camera portion of the State’s motion for Judge StricKland to review the possibility of a conflict of interest. You remember the one– where Jose Baez got the side bar lashing at it’s conclusion and Jeff Ashton was telepathically repeating “Wipe that smarmy smug off your mug” to Jose Baez.
Casey Anthony would only be entitled to what her “account” of the crime would have been worth PRIOR to her criminal act/ conviction. As she was really only known to the Club Scene and Target, good luck with that.
So, now your saying- well how does the State extrapolate the profit from the convictions PRIOR to the murder trial? You Can’t!
Not really, especially if you factor if one is “in the commission of” concealing the other. The State will be in a serious strength position to freeze Casey Anthony’s cash and the defense will be off like a prom dress.
George and Cindy Anthony Take The Stand
This for me, is the single biggest blow to the capital case against Casey. I have long stated I believe the defense is going to attempt the “confuse the jury of the guilty party” defense. Not new, not original, but in my opinion, in this case, prudent. The Anthony’s have no objection of course as they have a shot at getting their daughter out of prison and can keep their multiple income channels open.
The first salvo will be Casey, through Baez, releases a statement, or in his opening remarks will point the finger at George, Cindy or both.
Voilla! They plead the fifth and get out of testifying against their daughter.
Not going to happen. In order for that to work, the Anthony’s will have to get out of testifying in the economics case, and since she was stealing from them regularly and they have no fear of prosecution for themselves in those matters, THEY TAKE THE STAND. We already know the economic charges are the linchpin for the defense (follow the script) as to Casey’s fear, and why she did not report her child missing for 31 days.
Therefore, the Anthony’s will not be able to pick and choose what they testify to. They go on record in one, they go in both.
The Plea in PLEASE
Lastly, we have Casey Anthony going into a capital murder trial with a felony(s) conviction. There is little doubt it will be intoduced under the prior bad acts rule. Even if Jose Baez were able to advise Casey to proffer a plea, she is still a convicted felon and that sentencing comes first and limits the prosecution and his Honor Stan Strickland as to what sentencing guidelines must be used.
Zero doubt it will not come up from witnesses to the question– What did Cindy Anthony say to you the first time you met her in person?
You see where I am going with that.
It is this editors opinion, Amy Huizenga is my new R U D Y.
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ammchale, interesting thoughts, but I’m pretty sure the car was really out of gas. The tow yard mgr with Geo pointed out that the gas gauge was on E when it wouldn’t start, then Geo went and got his cans out of his own car to put gas in it and it started. Supposedly LE tested the gauge and it was working.
Maura (in a previous thread on this site) makes a compelling argument showing that Casey probably did NOT intend to abandon it or get it stolen—definitely worth a read.
#1057 Comment by Maura — July 10, 2009 @ 8:15 am
http://blinkoncrime.com/2009/06/20/cayleecasey-anthony-case-caylees-autopsy-revelations-part-i/#more-1919
Re: #189…Good morning wpgmous
This is exactly when the “Zenaida/ Nanny” story was born according to Lee’s statement to the police. This was Lee’s first statement and probably the most honest of all his statements. To me it’s a fascinating read because it paints a picture of exactly what happened in that house that day. He said “She put her head DOWN and started crying and said “OK Lee I’m going to tell you what really happened now…” and boom…suddenly there’s a “nanny” that has Caylee. I think you are right. She realized she WAS NOT going to get on a plane and fly away and that she would have to come up with a reason that she could not possibly take the police to Caylee because the “nanny” had her and Casey didn’t know where they were. I guess in her empty head she could talk her way out of the rest of it. In her visit with Cindy and George she stated “I NEED to be seen as a VICTIM in all of this!…I’m JUST as much of a victim as everyone else in all of this!”
She seemed angry that no one was buying the nanny story and her plan to be yet another victim was backfiring on her.
JMO…but I believe before that moment in Lee’s room…she thought she had everything under her control and when Lee pointed out they were going to MAKE her show them Caylee she instantly invented the nanny story. I also believe that she was going to use Zenaida’s info to start a new life somewhere…get credit cards…forge checks etc etc but had to use her info for the nanny instead when she realized she was trapped…all JMHO.
Getting ready for work…will check in later!
RE: #176….One more post before work!…Hello chica! I completely agree with your post and find it amazing that she committed this hideous act against a defenseless child and expected everyone to believe every word out of her mouth without question, no matter how absurd it sounded. The fact that she actually had the audacity to get ANGRY when people wouldn’t accept her lies really tells a story about her past and her personality. The word sociopath comes to mind. Just like Scott Peterson the audacity of the lies and the confusion as to why people don’t believe them. It’s absolutely surreal.
191 …Just wondering,economic charges and the like ,relatable to murder trial if articles were purchased or other evidence used in commision of the crime made possible by funds forged or stolen.
Silver
Glad to see you back!
(when you have the chance)
If convicted on the fraud charges (or inconceivably not), couldn’t parts of the fraud case enter into the murder case anyway?
They seem to be integrally enmeshed.
1. The videos illustrate state of mind subsequent to the death, or abduction of Caylee. Along with party photos, the items purchased show a person concerned about their own appearance and comfort; buying clothes, food and alcohol, sans toddler products. They also provide hard evidence that Casey wasn’t spending every waking moment of her time searching for a missing Caylee.
2. They prove that Casey was not at work, anywhere. The absence of Caylee in the video gives a time frame for when she was no longer around. Isn’t that better than witness testimony?
3.The Anthonys will have to testify. They will likely have to admit the circumstances of calling Amy, finding Casey, and then discovering that Caylee was gone, (and so were Amy’s checks and all of the money in her bank account). There wouldn’t have been any other reason for Cindy to have met up with Amy, if Caylee wasn’t missing at that point. Wasn’t that when Amy discovered that the checks were missing?
Cindy made statements about Casey’s character and propensity to steal to Amy. This breaks down assertions made by her previously that Casey was a responsible mother who ‘provided’ for her child (at least in a legal/ ethical sense). It kills some of Cindy Anthony’s credibility in providing a past glowing character assessment of Casey. Doesn’t the escalation of thefts (with lying) provide some insight into a criminal who is becoming more desperate to live/maintain a particular lifestyle completely devoid of responsibility including working and/or child rearing? (rather than a woman who inconceivably snaps without warning or signs?)
Cindy made statements to detectives, at one point, that she didn’t trust Amy. The fraud case is proof that Amy was a victim of Casey, rather than a potential suspect. It partially knocks down the defense’s theory that there was a rush to judgment. Cindy Anthony was expressing distrust or suspicion of Amy, fully knowing that Amy was a victim. It shows that detectives were ‘onto’ this diversion of guilt outward and away from Casey by the Anthonys . They were careful to uncover any info about Amy, but determined that she was indeed a victim. Thus the suspicions of the Anthonys were concocted to remove guilt from Casey as opposed to detectives having tunnel vision?
Suppose the Anthonys testify one way in the fraud case, but then say something different in the murder case. Since testimony is a legal record, couldn’t statements from the fraud case be used to impeach testimony in the murder case, if they end up being different?
So many more questions and thoughts, but this is long winded enough for one post.
Blink, with all of the possibility of Cindy going on these Casey-blogs, do you think she is gathering all of the comments together, and running them over to Brad so they can have a “Casey can’t get a fair trial in Orlando, so it needs to be moved, or dropped all together” excuse? And if so, will her ridiculous maneuvers pay off? She seems more intent on attempting to change public opinion, than following through on her own lies, such as “Zanny and Caylee are in Puerto Rico”. I would think if she believed that lie, then she’d be eating crab puffs in San Juan, as opposed to blogging Casey’s “innocence”
Most of us have vented our utter disgust at C&G Anthony over the past few months. In trying to save their daughter from not only the DP, but also trying to get any and all charges against Casey dropped, they have engaged in what apperars to be unlawful acts, vengeful and purposeful hate and public finger-pointing against many innocent people and law enforcement – all with the blessing of their attorney Brad Conway. They have been spewing lies and mistruths in regards to the innocence of their daughter, and have totally missed the boat on where they could have been most effective in getting their daughter her fair day in court.
Because of the laws in the State of Florida (called the Sunshine Laws), any and all documents of the State are released to the public for all the world to know. While I think that this is unfair to a defendant facing criminal charges, I had never been aware that these laws existed in that state until this case. If the Ant’s are so hell-bent on saving their daughter from spending the rest of her life behind bars, or the DP, then why oh why are they not persuing changing the laws in their state to admonish the Sunshine Laws forever from the books?? It may not help Casey right now, but further on down the road, it may open the door for appeals if they are successful in changing the current laws.
For this, I suspect that people would be more respectful of the Ant’s position in this horrible, psycholically twisted tale of murder and loss in the umph degree. Perhaps they feel that helping other defendants down the road is not where they want to put their energy, but then that truly reveals what the Ant’s are made up of. Yes, they will help others, but then they will also help their daughter (possibly) and that their energy would be put to positive use. And this goes for their atty. too.
Casey Anthony put herself in this position, but if her parents feel they don’t want to be victims anymore, then they should put their energy to good use where it may produce a positive outcome. We don’t believe that their Kid Finding Network is ALL about finding missing kids. We are not buying what they are selling. All the energy spent in trying to sway public opinion in regards to their daughter’s innocence is back-firing right back on them. Brad Conway seems like a good person who would be willing to help start the ball rolling in the right direction and possibly change the future of this case. (Not immediately, but down the road.) JMHO
RE #198 Hi SuzeeB and Kameron
I can add some to the list of Casey’s true statements:
3) “I NEED to be seen as a victim in all of this.”
4) “Maybe I’m just a spiteful B!tch.”
5) “I don’t ‘do’ egg salad.” (except that’s probably no longer true)
6) “I look like crap.”
7) “I’ve had everything taken from me.” (As she should have.)
I’m sure I’ll think of more…
; )
#206 Todd in Tulsa
I don’t think any of these blogs can be fodder for a change in venue. I’m from NC as well as others. I know there are Canadians and Europeans commenting too. The Anthonys continue to attract publicity. The medis doesn’t need to go looking for them. If the defense wants a jury that hasn’t been exposed to the shenanigans of the Anthonys, I think they need to talk to NASA about transportation.
i like the comment about the two dudes being added to the List–george and lee. also what is wrongful death as applied to Casey? also confused about the 5th amendment—-aren’t virtually all of george and cindy’s comments incriminating and who decides that? linda— casey’s statement list is good too. i know the prosecution is good but all they would have to do is read on this site to have a slam dunk against “i dont “do” egg salad” Casey. she would probably enjoy a decent jailhouse sandwich about now i bet!!!!!!
Todd, this blog site is available on the world wide web. So are all the other blog sites. It really has nothing to do with Or lawn do or central Florida.
Sue, face it. G+C have no interest in anything but to make M O N E Y from the murder of their granddaughter. Trust me. What they do with their time would amaze you. They don’t spend any time looking for missing kids or anything resembling that if they don’t get paid for it.
ada,
I can tell you know one I know has a clue about this case and that list of folks stretches from Germany, TN, UT and CA, and even Florida, I ask friends and family about this case and they haven’t heard anything about it, I have friends/family that NEVER watch the news, I am certain there are people in FL that are the same, some folks have busy lives with kids or work and school and might catch a climps now and then, I am from UT live in Germany and am an huge News Fan that is how I stumbled onto this case, but what going on in my home town I have not a clue…
lol ada not a bad idea let’s send them to the moon or any other planet.
Blink, I just read over on the TV Guy blog at the Orlando Sentinel that “Monster Mom “personally retained” … Todd Macaluso…… what the hell-o does that mean…. did she read up on him in her jail cell and told…. bumbling bozo to call him…. ”
Is that true? It supposedly came from here: http://www.cfnews13.com/Features/CaseyAnthony/KeyPlayers/Family.aspx
I covered him extensively on here Chic J, that is a tad misleading. She has a seperate retainer agreement with him directly.
B
#172
1. Zanny’s wrecked Ford Focus
2. LE that responded to that wreck
3. ambulance driver that took Zanny to the hospital
4. wrecker service that picked up the car
# 203 linda
It sure seems surreal! what’s more surreal is watching cindy in actions! lord have mercy!!
It hurts my heart to think of little caylee being mistreated when she was with casey, as evidenced by the witness that seen casey and caylee! he recalls that casey seemed upset that caylee was given a beanie doll! like always she was competing to be the one and only one getting any attention. she is sick and twisted. just thinking of little caylee struggling with that door!and probably scared to death !! I can only imagine the fear in caylees eyes when she was with casey.( and this is what the anthonys are protecting) It had been noted that in one of the home videos !! casey was playing with caylee and made a coment under her breath” I hate you to caylee. I feel that there was alot of mental abuse and loads of neglect. It saddens me and more so that the grandparents know this as evidenced by their comments to various friends of casey and cindys co-workers! yet they stand by and protect the very person that failed to protect a helpless innocent little girl. as far as I am concerned they have sold their soul to the devil!! I go to bed each night praying for justice for caylee and accountability for cindy george and lee.
I am a gramma of 7 grandkids and two recent great grandbabies! there is no way I as a grandmother would have allowed any of my two daughters to hurt my grandkids! much less cover up and destroy evidence and make a fool of myself all over national t.v god have mercy on their pathetic souls …because something is seriously wrong with the anthonys. someone here commented that they had been in contact with Rick Plasea cindys brother! as I recall he has always maintained that the whole plasea family is ashamed, embarassed at ALL the lies and actions of his niece sister and her husband!
cindy had little regard for her dad’s failing health and her mothers age and heath. like casey cindy has always been alot like casey. the apple doesnt fall to far from the tree!!! what !! do they think that if casey was released that everything would be peachy king! NOT because her arrogant attitude would send cindy over the edge. the anthonys have no credibility whatsoever. It will be interesting to see everyone that testifies for the prosecution against casey be it friends family .. witnesses .. to face them cindy and george face to face and tell the truth!! I dont think casey has any friends left that would have stuck by her side ! once they heard everything she had done To caylee and all the lies and sleeping around. Also I can imagine how tony lazarro felt knowing casey was being a hoochie mama to more guys than him. I think casey could have been a different person had she been born to a different set of parents. I dont care for the girl but I have often thought as have many others that she is a product of her inviroment. and as for george hmmm well cindys wears his nards for earrings he has none !! to let this go on knowing as a former LE the truth the death smell etc. and as far as lee goes he I do not trust he is sneaky I wonder if its to keep his job … I dont believe he will turn on his parents but thats just me.
thanks for your ear
chica
Blink thank you again for this site that is so well organized and put tgether.
I appreciate you
I love all the blinkers they are well informed and sometimes witty and funny. we need funny sometimes !! with all the sadness about caylees demise!!
We can add the “kidnappers” (the ones supposedly watching the family) to list of missing folks!
Sorry, may have repeated a few.
linda
the scott peterson case in modesto where he lived is where my sister lives fifteen miles from me. she said the court house and surrounding areas was always congested with traffic as will be when casey goes to trial in florida. he reminds me so much of casey his demeanor and cold actions.
Kleat, are you really worried about Shirley Plesea having to testify? LOL, she strikes me as a tough old bird. It’s her hubby who’s frail, but she seems sturdy (unless I’ve missed something).
I have read the amendments to the motion to dismiss. Casey asserts that the second material fact in the case is: ” I did tell LE that I dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales when questioned by LE”. She does not stipulate that this is the truth just that it is what she told them. How can this be a meterial fact when it’s truth is in question?
How will a plea bargain change the sentence?
Did anyone mention:
23. Samantha, Zanny’s Sister
24. Samantha’s 2 or 3 children
25. Jeffrey Hopkin’s mother who babysat Caylee in J’ville in between chemo treatments and her wedding
26. JH’s mother’s new husband whose wedding KC attended
27. Family of Eric Baker (dead baby daddy) who moved to Italy
28. Josh from Georgia (forget if he’s dead too) baby daddy as told to Kiomarie
29. Rapist who deflowered KC (another baby daddy as told to TL)
You guys are so ON IT today!!!!Somebody put the never ending list of the now famous non existing associates of Casey Anthony together and send it to JVM and NGrace and let them have some fun with it.Even better Mike Galanos…I gotta little crush on him.Party on,RG
sorry I too agree that alex plasea is frail but like cindy shirley plasea is a tough cookie! by listening to the LE interview! she didnt seem frail but one never knows up to date what toll it’s taken on them. I am sure it has been hard to go through all this time listening t the media and watching their daughter make a fool of herself on national t.v
cindy cares for her own self how it will make her look she needs to look at the woman in the mirror.
blink, I don’t know if this has been mentioned before, but I just had a thought. The apartment that Casey told LE where Zenaida lived, is it possible that somehow she had access to that empty apartment, and that is where she left Caylee each day, while she went out and did whatever?
no
B
Where is this supposed doc dump? I’m getting impatient.
http://www.wftv.com/news/21241690/detail.html
Prosecutors: Casey’s Defense Filed Bogus Motion
Posted: 4:13 pm EDT October 8, 2009
The Fifth Amendment privilege is available if the witness has reasonable ground to believe that her testimony will be used against her to prove an element of a crime. Brown v. Walker, 161 U.S. 591, 598 (1896). If the witness does NOT have a REASONABLE GROUND to believe that their TRUTHFUL answer to the question will/can be used against that witness to prove an element of a crime, then there is no Fifth Amendment privilege to assert.
CA and GA are not defendants in EITHER action–and sorry, but the cases are entirely separate. Different crimes charged–different elements of the offenses– different proof entirely. That is how they are being tried separately. Otherwise, there would be double jeopardy issues.
Think about it from a logical perspective. Forgery/uttering forged check/theft vs. Murder 1/Agg. Manslaughter, etc.
Just because Casey spun that wacky tale of the “script” and tried to justify stealing from Amy as part of her alleged own investigation efforts/desperation/whatever does not make these cases related from the State’s–or from an objective legal– perspective.
These are two distinct cases. You have a couple days of trial for the fraud case (Caylee’s demise is irrelevant to these charges). You have months of trial for the capital case (the State’s witness list alone… MONTHS).
Back to CA and GA: They are not charged with any crimes. They are merely non-party fact witnesses who, like any other non-party fact witness, can be compelled to testify. In order to assert the Fifth Amendment at trial, they would have to have a REASONABLE GROUND to believe that their TRUTHFUL answer to a question will or could be used against them to prove an element of a crime.
Remember: A witness can answer some questions, and take the Fifth on others. This is NOT akin to the DEFENDANT taking the stand. These are non-party witnesses.
The Fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination is one of our most fundamental rights as citizens. Moreover, because it is such an important right, the privilege against self-incrimination can be invoked in any proceeding where the witness “reasonably believes [that his or her testimony] could be used in a criminal prosecution or could lead to other evidence that might be so used.” Kastigar v. United States, 406 U.S. 441, 444-45, 92 S.Ct. 1653, 1656, 32 L.Ed.2d 212 (1972). In keeping with its desire to safeguard fifth amendment rights, the Supreme Court has explicitly held that a district court [the federal trial court level] cannot compel a witness in a civil action “to answer deposition questions over a valid assertion of his Fifth Amendment rights.” Pillsbury Co. v. Conboy, 459 U.S. 248, 256-57, 103 S.Ct. 608, 614, 74 L.Ed.2d 430 (1983); see National Life Ins. Co. v. Hartford Accident & Indem. Co., 615 F.2d 595, 597 (3d Cir.1980) (“It is undisputed that the fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination may be asserted in a civil action as well as a criminal action.”).
The more pertinent question here is whether they can take the Fifth at trial after having testified under oath during their recent depositions. (See more on this below). (**Florida allows the State to take depositions in criminal matters; that is not the norm. Here we have CA and GA being deposed not only in the civil case, but also by the State. Highly unusual.**).
The right not to answer potentially incriminating questions in a civil or criminal proceeding, however, is not absolute. The prohibition against compelling the testimony of a witness in any setting is predicated upon there being a REAL danger that the testimony might be used against the witness in later criminal proceedings. As Justice Blackmun noted in his concurrence in Pillsbury, “[i]t is black-letter law that a witness cannot assert a Fifth Amendment privilege not to testify ‘if the testimony sought cannot possibly be used as a basis for, or in aid of, a criminal prosecution against the witness.’ ” 459 U.S. at 273, 103 S.Ct. at 622 (quoting Brown v. Walker, 161 U.S. 591, 597, 16 S.Ct. 644, 647, 40 L.Ed. 819 (1896)).
In other words, CA and/or GA cannot play a shell game with the State during trial testimony via invoking the Fifth.
Consistent with this basic principle, it has long been held that a grant of “use and derivative use” immunity by prosecutors pursuant to a federal (or state) immunity statute can be used to overcome the fifth amendment rights of a witness who refuses to testify. Kastigar, 406 U.S. at 445-48, 92 S.Ct. at 1656-57; see also Pillsbury, 459 U.S. at 257, 264, 103 S.Ct. at 614, 617. As the Supreme Court stated in Kastigar, “[i]mmunity statutes, which have historical roots deep in Anglo-American jurisprudence, are not incompatible with [the] values” underlying the fifth amendment privilege, 406 U.S. at 445-46, 92 S.Ct. at 1656-57, because such statutes effectively ensure that the compelled testimony “can in no way lead to the infliction of criminal penalties,” id. at 461, 92 S.Ct. at 1665. A statutory grant of use immunity, then, can displace the privilege against self-incrimination because it leaves the witness who is compelled to testify in “substantially the same position” as if he had never testified in the first instance. See Kastigar, 406 U.S. at 458-59, 92 S.Ct. at 1663-64 (quoting Murphy v. Waterfront Comm’n, 378 U.S. 52, 79, 84 S.Ct. 1594, 1609, 12 L.Ed.2d 678 (1964)).
IF CA & GA did not get immunity, and did not assert the Fifth during their recent depositions in the criminal case, they may very well have WAIVED their right to assert it at trial. We don’t know at this point though, because we don’t know what particular questions were asked of them AND/OR whether they asserted their Fifth Amendment rights at any time during their depositions. Again, they cannot just assert the Fifth as part of a shell game. They would have to REASONABLY BELIEVE that their TRUTHFUL ANSWERS could be used against them to prove some element of a crime, whether during a deposition or on the witness stand at trial.
For example:
If these non-party fact witnesses are asked under oath, “Did you kill Caylee?”, and the TRUTHFUL answer is “no”, then they cannot refuse to answer that question by asserting their 5th Amendment rights, because admitting that you did NOT kill the victim is NOT incriminatory.
(All–Please do NOT confuse this with the DEFENDANT’S RIGHT TO NOT TESTIFY AT TRIAL). (And All– please do not confuse any of this with the fact that ALL of these people VOLUNTARILY SPOKE TO LE. REMEMBER: THEIR STATEMENTS TO LE MAY/WILL RETURN TO HAUNT THEM! AND THIS IS TRUE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CASE– FROM THE CHARGES, TO THE AMOUNT OF BAIL, TO THE TRIAL ITSELF! THIS IS WHY CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYERS ALWAYS TELL PEOPLE WHO HAVE EVEN A REMOTE SUSPICION THAT THEY MAY BE ACCUSED–NOT GUILTY– BUT JUST MERELY EVEN ACCUSED OF A CRIME SHOULD NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE BEFORE FIRST TALKING TO A LAWYER.)
*****
B-
I have thoughts on the wrongful death action issue. Bio dad–if emerges– will not get bupkis (sp?) in a WDA.
Why?
Look at the statute. See 768.16-768.26– The Florida “Wrongful Death Act”.
Check out the type of damages recoverable under Wrongful Death Actions in Florida (loss of support and services, reduced to present value)–and ok, because she is a minor child, “mental pain and suffering” from date of injury, and think about the fact that Caylee was a young, dependent child. She was not providing “support” (financial) to ANYONE. Hence, no pecuniary loss to any bio dad. Also, bio dad never knew her, so… mental pain and suffering would not ??? Didn’t bother to get involved while Caylee was alive. Didn’t support Caylee financially/emotionally. Didn’t do anything to protect Caylee from her mother. Not much to be netted there, IMO.
Geeze Louise Silver, I wish I could frame that.
EVERYONE READ THE ABOVE POST…. Among the many stellar points Silver makes, what I completely forgot, is very important to both cases. Florida allows for the state to depose witnesses, er go, their testimony better match at trial.
I agree (begrudgingly) that the 2 trials are completely seperate, but I still say how do you decide possible story profits when they are really conjoined. I dont think one can make the argument that nobody would have had an interest in her “story” if she had only been charged with check fraud and nothing else, kwim?
B
The likelihood of the bio dad getting any money in this situation is pretty piss-poor, IMO. Think about it. Some guy who screwed Casey. One night stand. (Who likely did not bother to use protection). Disappears from the scene, so either does not know about the pregnancy, did not care about the pregnancy, or did not have any desire to be involved, much less financially responsible. (Oh. Right. I’m sorry. He set up a trust fund and now lives in Italy with his entire family.. after they left Tennesee.. or was that Georgia? Or North Carolina? Or New York?? Wait. He died in a car accident… around Caylee’s 2nd birthday.. NO, WAIT. It was around her 1st birthday. OOPS. Sorry. It was JESSE GRUND. NO! It was Mark Hawkins. Nah. It was some guy in OHIO. Or wait. Was it the guy from High School?? No! Not THAT guy from high school! The OTHER one! WRONG AGAIN!! It was the guy who was on Spring Break… or wait.. the guy who worked at Universal… Sighhhhhh. At least we know it wasn’t UNCLE LEE.
LOL, to be fair, I do believe Caylee’s father is deceased and did not know about the pregnancy as my personal opinion, so I was more interested in stopping her profit portfolio than giving to another if that makes sense. Come Hell or High Water I will restore this childs legacy some how, let’s keep at it.
B
ROFLMAO at the lists of people who mysteriously vanished!!!!!!!!!! You guys are cracking me up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and thank you, because i needed some stress relief!)
Blink, I keep hitting my refresh button waiting for more great post. But, I keep reminding myself that you have children who also need your undivided attention. Thanks for what you do.
Silver and everyone else who post here, you rock! (as my teenager would say)
Refresh, Refresh!
Thank you, lol, as a matter of fact, blinkette ran a 5:38 mile today, Momma Blink is very proud.
B
Not sure if this has been added to the list of mystery people that vanished, but let’s don’t forget…..
If it hadn’t been for Jeff Hopkin’s friend (lie)…who fixed Casey’s car (lie)….while she was in Jacksonville (lie)…she would never have been able to get back to work (lie)…
in regards to “the list”, did George or Cindy have any dealings with Jimmy Hoffa?
Don’t forget the insurance company that paid for Zanny’s accident. (Casey had to retrieve her insurance cards from Orlando and take them back to Tampa) IIRC.
This was on WFTV website:
In a new document filed Thursday, prosecutors are accusing Casey Anthony’s defense team of filing yet another bogus motion, this time over the death penalty.
The defense wants the judge to take the death penalty off the table, but prosecutors say judges don’t have that authority.
Prosecutors went as far as saying either the defense team doesn’t understand the law or is purposely misstating it to grandstand.
Prosecutors say a hearing on the issue would be a waste of the court’s time.
Somebody? Is that true, that the judge does not have that authority.
If so, surely the defense would know this. More garbage?
Is Judge Strickland finally going to stop these people from blocking up the judicial system and get moving on a trial?
I have to say this sight is far out and fantastic. I am checking constantly to read the great post here. I learn something new about law everyday. Blink, thanks to you for all your hard work. This sight does justice for Caylee.
It seems winning this battle is more important to the Anthony’s then the importance of standing up for their grandchild. What a sadness I feel.
Blink..where is the bug and fauna and dirt report..Miss DD is banking on a slam dunk from them.
Also..just to note..the defense is running out of options quickly..all her lawyers have full speaking / teaching engagements. They need Casey to get in line with the party line of plea if you don’t want the DP.
Seriously..I truly believe that the biggest asset that Lyons has in her DP cases is her dramatic portrayal for her client. Meaning convincing a con that going with the LWOP is the best for each.
Somehow, I think Casey could find satisfaction in the fact that she murdered and still got away with her own life vs death. Andrea just needs to find that place, which I believe she is working on..and then insert the satisfaction needle.
Getting a client who pleads innocent to turn and plead guilty ..to a reduced sentence is an art.. Lyons drama lessons in her youth have given her the biggest stage of all..LWOP vs DP. And she has made a career and a name for herself doing just that.
Very, Very astute observation and I agree. I wonder if Baez knew what hit him yet.
B
Blink-
Remember: Casey has not told/sold her story, i.e. her “literary, cinematic or other account of the crime” “for which she was convicted” to anyone for profit yet. (OK-for which she WILL be convicted IF the case goes to trial, IMO).
It is not the sale of a photo of her and/or Caylee that is covered by the SofS law. It is the convicted offender’s ACCOUNT of the crime.
BTW– criminal profilers and forensic psychologists/psychiatrists gain insight when a Casey Anthony reveals her account of the crime; even with a sociopath or malignant narcissist who lies non-stop through the account, it can reveal useful information for solving future crimes and/or preventing them.
If someone in her shoes cannot profit in some way from providing her own account of the crime, the likelihood of her revealing her evil is even more remote, because there is no motivation to tell the tale)
FAIR ASESSMENT, LIKE IT OR NOT PEOPLE, SILVER IS RIGHT, THIS IS A NECESSARY EVIL.
(yes, that is disgusting in some ways, but if you take away her right to profit even in the slightest from telling THE STORY…you leave her the option of writing meaningless poetry for sale– upon which the state canNOT assert any lien– and which some people would shell out the $$ for anyhow–whether they would be trying to read her confession into some dribble she put out, or whether they are enamored with her for some sick reason– Scott Peterson gets LOVE letters and MARRIAGE PROPOSALS from lonely, sad, sick women to this day)
True. None of us would have known the name Casey Marie Anthony if the only crime she was charged with was forging a few checks totaling less than a grand.
But a) she has not sold her story/her account of the fraud (hello! we can see it on TAPE, so who needs her “account” of it? plus it isn’t that interesting, is it?), and b) that proves the point that the public interest in her story stems from the “missing/kidnapped/murdered” daughter story.
Respectully Mon Frier, we don’t know what ancillary accounts she can offer in that regard.
The “entertainment value” is attached to story of Caylee’s horrific, untimely demise.
Can they assert a lien or liens pursuant to those statutes? Sure they can. But can they collect a dime at this point?? Well, first they’d have to show that she got remunerated by selling her account of the fraud charges. Tough road to travel.
Remember-
These statutes are attempting to stop the convicted felon from profiting BY TELLING HER STORY ABOUT THE CRIME OF WHICH SHE WAS CONVICTED.
**WARNING: GRAPHIC DESCRIPTIONS AHEAD** (you may wish to move on to the next post)
Think about the Rolling case example, which I cited above. I know you said you are familiar, B, but allow me to shed some light for others.
Rolling is a serial killer who brutally murdered (and in some instances, sexually assaulted) 5 young college student in Gainsville, Florida in the early 1990s.
Rolling did some obscenely sick things (and I mean on top of the sexual assaults/murders). For instance, he took pleasure, or attempted to exhibit his “control” over his victims, and perhaps authorities seeking to catch him, by mutilating the bodies post-mortem, (most notably by cutting off portions of the female victims’ breasts), and also by positioning the bodies in horrendous ways.
One victim… whom he sexually assaulted, then murdered by stabbing with a military-type knife that pretty much required him to plunge his hand into the victim’s flesh… he then decapitated; placed her headless body in a sitting position on the edge of the bed; moved a small bookcase across the room, and placed her own head atop it, so that it would appear that she was looking upon her headless–and mutilated– corpse.
She was 18 years old. Her parents had to learn these impossible-to-tolerate facts. And when I think of the moment they were told, my eyes well up with tears, while at the same time, my heart pounds with rage and a need for vengeance.
After he was convicted, he wrote a book about all of this, detailing his crimes, and pedaled it through his fiancee (or ex-fiancee).
This is when the State asserted the lien under the SofS statute–and the state forfeiture statute which I mentioned in my original post on this topic.
The court skirted the issue on the constitutionality of the SofS statute (for pretty obvious reasons).
The State didn’t get much via the lien to spread around to the families of the 5 victims under the forfeiture statute, but yes, whatever they could take was better than nothing at all.
*****
Sometimes at night, when I close my eyes… I try to imagine what Casey did with Caylee’s body, and I admit that on more than one occasion, I had to run to the bathroom, because my stomach could not contain its contents. Even if Caylee died an accidental death (I do not believe that, but even if).. it is almost intolerable to comprehend what Casey did with her little body.
Silver we are of like minds, or like hauntings, whichever, I am touched by your soul impact as well as the same “genome” shared by others here.
A fact of life around here is that I get to smell animal decomp, particularly around this time of year (before they intentionally thin the herds of deers in the local parks). “Something DIED” is inevitably what one of my fellow mountain bikers will say–or I will say if I am at the front of the pack. And that is NOTHING compared to what the smell would have been in that Pontiac as each day passed in the Florida heat.
I will second this. I have been in the presence of both, there is no comparison, well said.
She had to GET RID OF THAT CAR.
NOTHING TAKES THAT SMELL AWAY (unless you hire a professional DECOMP cleaning services company, but cars are tough, and particularly after all that time).
Here is one of Lee’s truths: “The smell was ATROCIOUS.”
Yes Ma’am. I listened to Downing’s interview for the fourth time today. Enlightening.
B
NOTE: BLINK IN BOLD..
Gypsy DD
WFTV, today/October 8/2009 (snipped from their website article)
“Also Wednesday, Casey’s defense team got another 42 pages from prosecutors detailing forensic entomology reports from August 28 and December 11 of 2008. Those reports talked about the insects experts analyzed from the trunk of Casey’s car and the scene where Caylee’s remains were found.”
October 7/2009
“NEW HEARING IN ANTHONY CASE”
“Judge To Hear Several Motions In Murder Case”
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21231257/detail.html
(Blink, much thanks if you could please hyperlink the address.)
aww blink
your awesome ! the love we have for caylee but what you do above and beyond to keep r memory alive ! is the best! you said
I will restore this childs legacy some how, let’s keep at it.
were in for the long haul for caylee something her grandparents failed to do. no one can stop us!!!
I will restore this childs legacy some how, let’s keep at it.
love it blink were a team here working for one common cause justice for caylee something her grandparents failed at!!
Blink — It’s been a long time since I have posted on this case…just been reading and following along waiting to jump in. In part, one of your responses to silver included a statement;
Come Hell or High Water I will restore this childs legacy some how, let’s keep at it.
B
My comment to that is “Guardian ad Litem”!!!! I researched the State of Florida’s current program a long time ago and believe that had the State’s program included the “Caylee’s” of their state, monies flowing in as a result of her demise certainly wouldn’t be in the hands of the likes of the Anthony’s!
If anyone can improve/correct the Guardian ad Litem program to protect the “Caylee’s” of the world (disgusting profiteering from family members, etc., etc.) it is YOU Blink! And that to me, is how you can “restore this childs legacy”. May God continue to hold your hand as you help see this case walk down the proper halls of Lady Justice!
GAL is my platform in this case.
REPEAT
GAL is my platform in this case.
Not trying to be cryptic, but wanted to confirm where my heart is.
B
hhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asg9OjxlCPg
here is where casey has told the truth. and i do not know if that copied and pasted correctly…i tried.
okay…guess not. i did try. might get my teenage daughter to
help me tomorrw!!!! she can get it done!
Being silly, just wanted to add to chica’s list more phantoms:
the pink floral car seat in zanny’s car
Victor who is Zanny’s step father who adopted her but is know divorced from her mother Gloria
A case summary on the case calendar under the description what is the meaning of manual – trial? Please can someone explain – Thanks
Hey you all!
great reading as usual….
Silver! thanks so much for your patience in translating so well for us to read. I learned so much about pleading the 5th that I did not understand for years. I was a legal assistant too. Isnt that bad?..lol
I almost finished law school too but drifted off to the theater and found my niche in the world….
Tv! Lights, action!
I am really hoping that the new docs will be out tomorrow and that we find out more good evidence against these animals that claim to be a family!
thanks Blink and others for all that you do!
Clarification of previous comment I found this interesting website A public service and general purposes for information.
http://www.myorangeclerk.com/myclerk/Details.aspx?SessionID=6b44a468-d5db-4e30-a6b2-8d773d0a7b82&CaseID=6079536
A case summary on the case calendar under the description what is the meaning of manual – trial? Does this mean if correct there is going be a trial 10/12/2009. Please can someone explain – Thanks