Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
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the original press story, from memory only, was “a” license plate was given to authorities as an unconnected incident at the time. even that could easily be rumor. the story did not say which vehicle or state it was a personalized plate, much less Terri’s. I think we found there were other red stangs in that neck of the woods iirc.
not so crazy NelMel. A phone in my name, carried
by a family member, had its share of blocked hang
up calls the last few months originating in OR worrying
her to the extent she mentioned to me. No reason
to think it connected, and it didn’t worry me enough to
check out.
quizzical, I empathize. I unusually had to go right down Wayne yesterday
to make a delivery nearby. It is a small seedy looking bldg just before
blocks of more recent new building in Silver Spring. Actually the bldg looked
like a great investment if bought over a decade ago. I managed to
restrain myself from walking in to ask “who wrote the script?” and how did you handle
matching audio & video on mcso? “Was there an actual interview?” “What statement was made?”
In reading about Walsh, whose pecadillo thru the years makes Morris Dees look like twinkletoes, I read his
young adult daughter helps on show too. Some reports said it was his huge
licensing fee that led to Fox cancelling. unfortunate if his fee took a hit in June 2011,
because it looks to me like his 20 acre spread, the large ranch development he is co-developing
part of which is conservancy, his polo ponies, are probably money strains.
When he did interviews for AMW he said
he lived at a secret location for security. But in Fla based interviews, he not only revealed
his property but also named his childrens’ school. Go figure. I finally decided AMW
was such a complex case I would drop my interest in all aspects, including what goes into
and comes out of the can at 801 N Wayne.
Seedy buildings are probably typical of the music business as the business nearby
where recently I saw an audition DVD recorded
was much much worst (yet skills/equipment tops). I still wonder how out of
all the qualifying studios in the country this little business got that Archives contract.
@NelMel. thru googling: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1244892
halfway down. same co. name & also Mastercard. thought thru hacking
of an online transaction with a spam sending co. most likely unrelated.
@lyla
Unfortunately , we do not know. We don’t know, other than some rumors from some alleged witnesses who were allegedly SI residents…..yada yada yada.
I do know that I’m pretty sure I identified one of the SI residents who was saying that SI residents did in fact get the license #. Doesn’t mean that person did, but she knew who “said” they did. Now, guess what….it’s all hearsay or “internet-say”. ( Hey, maybe I just coined a new word.) I have only one major question in this case and I hope part II answers it, Why is LE being so close to the chest in this case……two freakin’ years later? IMO, until I hear differently, they are playing a waiting game with someone. But hey, wth do I know, nada, nada mas.
I hadn’t ever thought Kaine set Terry up bit maybe he did. He seems super confidence Kyron is alive and works in technology. Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t there some announcement or something that SZ although using technology new also how to make technology disappear of something like that????
Sorry about above typos. I’m on my phone and sleep deprived. My almost one and a half year old is so sick! :’(
fyi
http://www.oregonlive.com/north-of-26/index.ssf/2012/09/authorities_concerned_bethany.html#incart_river_default
I’ve questioned the red Mustang seen on Sauvie Island the day Kryon went missing too.
Kaine drove the Mustang that day because Terri took the truck. I believe it was verified that Kaine was at work during the time in question. But, could there have been two sets of keys to the mustang? Could Terri have given the second set of keys to DDS (knowing Kaine wouldn’t miss it during that time). Could DDS have been driving around Sauvie Island in the Mustang with Terri’s cell phone(explaining the pings)while Terri was in the truck….elsewhere?
Or, if this is too far-fetched.. does Intel have cameras in their employee parking lot? Would there be a way to prove that the Mustang remained at Intel all day? If it can be proved, then the mystery of the red Mustang is solved.
I missed this final point blink made originally about TH giving up seeing babyK due to her fear. However, if I feared someone would attempt to take my baby, I would rather have her with me than my ex since I wouldn’t know how well he was ensuring she was protected. JMO
Blink, do you mean more along the lines that if TH ‘talks’ about what she knows/connection she has, then she fears her baby would be in danger for her talking but not talking protects babyK?
http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2012/09/southern_oregon_medical_mariju.html
I guess there are other cargos one could drive home from Springfield area monthly.
NelMel – WOW! What can you buy at a construction company that would go to a debit card? An addition to a dog house? I’m sure that they don’t
sell hardware.
And the Medford/Portland locations ? I looked up Riverview and found 3 entries- One is a Cemetery in Portland. Another -on Sauvie Island…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverview,_Multnomah_County,_Oregon
My Goosebumps still have not gone away!
There was a (long) period of time where I was getting frequent calls from Oregon.I knew there was an association (w/Kyron search).
Sampling:
503-468-5531 – DD servcom – per caller ID – no answer when u pu phone
503-457-1031- CSPP research to alliant.com Caribbean Cruise Line
503-902-8480 – lower interest rates -calls 4 this co from other states
503-902-8479 – Woodburn, Oregon – also DDservecom
Filed complaints with local police & server. Waiting to obtain a subpeona to de-cloak.
I live in the NE area about 2500 miles from Portland.
Aside- I’m sure you know that the construction co is doing business out of a single family home which is currently a Beauty Salon?
Just WOW! Searching for Kyron has it’s hazards, eh?
opps – spelling error – make that a subpoena
NelMel – add to my previous post re: same
http://www.homes.com/Home-Prices/ID-300017005995/3271-HANLEY-RD/
3271 Hanley rd, Central Point, Or 97502
There is something in the driveway – looks like one of those PODS – where you store stuff?
Also, another something that looks like a house trailer…
And,of course, a white extended cab truck… (becoming obligatory re: Kyron)
Okay, now you guys have me wondering about the numerous calls I’ve been getting where no one answers on the other end. Been going on for 3 or 4 months. You can hear the line open, but no one answers. I have never heard of Riverview Oregon, so I googled it. (BTW, Central Point is where DY & TY live, not Medford, the two cities abut one another.)
None of the places that Wiki lists as possible Riverview locations are anywhere near there. There is a Riverview restaurant along the Rogue River, between in Gold Beach (going west from Meford to the coast):
“Should you be inclined toward river-view dining, head up Jerry’s Flat Road a couple of miles to the Riverview Restaurant on the Rogue River. Slightly less formal, you can order a wood-fired pizza for the kids and choose from many delightful entrees like fried razor clams or fresh salmon. From your table, you may see salmon jumping, and sea lions and seals cruising around the boat docks.”
There’s also a Riverview Restaurant in Troutdale, up north. Maybe the charge is from a business named Riverview?
Skyline School is where KyH was last seen … no evidence to indicate there was a struggle or even a commotion that raised suspicion … it would appear that KyH was either lured outside by someone or was instructed by someone to go outside the school … where he got into a white truck, similiar to the one being driven by TH, and wisked away … to parts unknown … there is a second, and possibly, third location = crime scene.
Not only did KyH vanish, but so did a driver and a white truck.
Venetia says:
September 20, 2012 at 11:29 am
NelMel – WOW! What can you buy at a construction company that would go to a debit card? An addition to a dog house? I’m sure that they don’t sell hardware.
—————————————————————-
lol….for the $49.00 charge I saw, it couldn’t have been such a great doghouse.
I might not have written my first comment about the situation very well. I was sort of poking fun at my own time spent discussing this case, and when I saw the fraudulent charge originated near Medford, OR, I thought “sheeesh, what are the odds?” Hence my “slap me” comment.
I’m not thinking it was anything to do with the case. It was just creepy to see that out of all the potential origins for scammers and hackers of debit card accounts, mine HAD to be based 12 minutes from Medford?
Are we absoluely positive that Waiting Game isn’t between LE and KH?
A lot of things can fit to him just as easily as they do TMH. Wonder if he knows stuff that he just isn’t telling.
@T. Ruth says:September 19, 2012 at 10:51 pm
Why is LE being so close to the chest in this case……two freakin’ years later? IMO, until I hear differently, they are playing a waiting game with someone. But hey, wth do I know, nada, nada mas.
Can anyone access Oregon DMV records to find out how many red Mustangs (probably fifty-billion) are licensed in Oregon? I actually think there are a whole lot more white Ford trucks around town than there are red Mustangs.
LE would have checked this all out, wouldn’t they?
Still wondering about the 5-year thing.
Well, it would be really great if Kyron is OK and KH knows where he is and is keeping him quiet and still sees him from time to time.
waiting … waiting … waiting.
@January says:September 20, 2012 at 4:13 am
I’ve questioned the red Mustang seen on Sauvie Island the day Kryon went missing too.
As I wrote earlier, how convenient is that — to have someone carry additional “cargo” from northern to southern Oregon – and vice versa at the same time they are traveling a child to stay with step parents. And probably thinking it is pretty funny (humorous) that they are making deliveries and pickups right under the eyes of TY, who is also LE.
@Rose says:September 20, 2012 at 11:27 am
http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2012/09/southern_oregon_medical_mariju.html
I guess there are other cargos one could drive home from Springfield area monthly.
Speaking of the family and their alibis, I have always thought, well Tony was probably at work down in Medford. Then today, I started thinking about the funeral for Chief Dan Duncan. Does anyone know if any Medford PD were up there for that funeral, not necessarily Tony. Just looking at more of Kyron’s ripples.
I found this interesting. This post on SM says that Sandra Cantu was taken on the day of a huge police officer funeral as well? Is this true, I know nothing about that case.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8606.565;wap2
I have never read anything about sightings of a red mustang car on 6/4/10 on Sauvie Island other than comments here, and on a few other crime blogs.
Is there a definitive statement from a first hand witness who saw the car on Sauvie that day? Is that person named, or anonymous?
It just seems like a huge piece of information, but I have missed any reports out there about it, if there were any (not the rumors of it, but a news story that “I saw the red mustang”).
Speaking of police funerals, wasn’t DeDe’s dad a police officer too? Was he up there representing K. Falls maybe?
Trust your first thoughts NelMel “what are the odds”…
Indeed.
Most of us go to numerous links in search of info.
What can happen, unbeknownst to us, is a redirect.
From the original link, thought to be safe and maybe
approved by our PC security, we get a redirect to a not
so safe link.
Some light reading on the subject:
http://idtheft.about.com/od/glossary/g/Spoofing.htm
More enlightenment:
http://help.isu.edu/index.php?action=faq&catid=48&docid=789
No conspiracy, I just believe that is how I acquired my
problem.
The Woodburn phone # has me a tad concerned bc:
http://tinyurl.com/8cb6snd
Just curious, did you find out what they purchased for $49 ?
If they have my card #, they need to shop in the $10 & under area.
TY is Medford PD isn’t he? See page 8.
http://www.ci.medford.or.us/Files/101910%20PAC%20Agenda%20Packet.PDF
Confirmed Det TY CIS
http://www.ci.medford.or.us/Page.asp?NavID=2398
Donald Spicher, semi-retired Klamath County Sheriff deputy now works summers in marine patrol.
This is interesting to review.
“Additional information provided shows that she (DDS) is refusing to cooperate with law enforcement, she is also going as far as to suggest to others that may have information regarding Kyron’s disappearance, not to cooperate as well.”
Sheriff stated that TMH was cooperating in various portions; every request made of her has been answered but they have not had direct contact with her since she hired an attorney.
INTERESTING – “One woman said she underwent a five-hour polygraph examination about Kyron’s disappearance Thursday. She said investigators told her they already have probable cause to arrest Terri Horman on the alleged murder-for-hire plot and for Kyron’s disappearance. But they didn’t say why an arrest hasn’t happened yet.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/99146044.html?tab=video&c=y
Todd Wise, of Beaverton was visiting the wall during the return to Skyline search:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/99180424.html?tab=video&c=y
Kaine gives Terri a Candy apple red Ford Mustang…
http://tinyurl.com/cr93lja
Excerpt:
Kaine once gave her a REALLY nice present. On Mother’s Day 2007 (well before the birthof their own daughter),
Kaine gave Terri a candy-apple-red Ford Mustang.
Not even 2 years before, Terri had a DUI conviction & much more prior…
http://tinyurl.com/9pq4cpw
Excerpt:
In addition, she wracked up nine traffic infractions, including several for speeding and one for driving with an expired license,
between 1988 and 2004.
So my question is: How rational/logical would it be to give someone with a driving record such as that-a RED sports car? 9 infractions
in addition to the DUI…
The father-in-law labeled her Red Squirrel and Terri followed up with
vanity plates for her Mustang – RDSQRL – acquiescing to the label?
I would not be flattered.
At some level, she must have thought something was afoot?
exactly TRuth and about same time period.
On cell in my name, OR area code.
&Venetia, you mean the foghorn toots followed by “this is your Captain”
cruise sails?
I can’t say I think either connected here though.
@NelMel says:
September 20, 2012 at 2:09 pm
(snipped) “I have never read anything about sightings of a red mustang car on 6/4/10 on Sauvie Island other than comments here, and on a few other crime blogs.”
————————————————————-
If it were true, it would be significant if Kaine’s Mustang was sighted on Sauvie Island June 4th.
Blink, anything you can share?
No confirmed sighting of that, ever.
B
OMG – now I’m not a detective by any means, but there HAS to be a connection here. This from “back at the beginning”:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/99146044.html?tab=video&c=y
which says:
Healthy living is what brought Terri Horman and Dede Spicher together. The two met at the Edge Gym in Beaverton, KATU News learned.
…and then today, when someone wrote about the perv who was arrested in Beaverton, location pops up again.(by the way, in a direct line north from Skyline school and I think near where Kyron’s Wall of Hope is:
@Rose says:September 20, 2012 at 1:17 am
fyi
http://www.oregonlive.com/north-of26/index.ssf/2012/09/authorities_concerned_bethany.html#incart_river_default
And Kyron’s Wall of Hope is on exactly the same street as these two others: xtreme edge. I guess birds of a feather flock together… (Maybe they are all the same and just changed their names)
@Venetia, that’s the Woodburn no!!!!!
Go for that subpoena. I didn’t pay attention to nos.
Anyone who wants to harass me would
have to put it in writing in a Valentine card,
otherwise I have an attention deficit.
It’s interesting LE was giving a woman, more likely women acquaintances of TMH, who’d rallied around her when Kyron was abducted, 5 hour polys when mcso KNEW it was a MALE who walked off with him. And polys are used to rule out conspirators and “prove” innocence.
To me that sounds like a chauvinistic sheriff’s dept. What gave them
reason to believe female friends of TMH (remember this poly is not DD)
needed to have 5 hour polys and not males at the school or Kaine’s male
friends? I’m sorry, but if I was a friend of TMH and the Sheriff wanted me to
take a 5 hour poly whose only goal could be to prove
I was not a co-conspirator, I’d say “stuff it you know where.” No, I’d politely
say “I decline” and stick with it. How valid can any interrogation be which has to
have focused on the habits, mindset, and interactions of TMH if LE announces in advance
they have probable cause on your friend? Your mind would be
further roiled and you’d emphasize memories of the bad not the good in an effort to prove
you of course are cooperative & uninvolved. It’s a shame there is not a highef
supervisory statutory authority over County sheriff Depts in OR.
http://www.bizapedia.com/or/DLS-ENTERPRISES.html
as of 3/2012. DDS living in Beaverton
@TRuth. I don’t think MCSO or Da are playing a waiting game with anyone but Terri, for she is their only hope they didn’t figuratively shoot themselves in the foot from the git go. Someone, idk B ODonnell or that FBI newbie near retirement took an immediate dislike to her, and the investigation narrowed in scope and flailed in method. Otherwise, what’s to wait for? They can’t wait for unknown male who left with Kyron because they need to methodically find him.
They need to pass this case on, then wait.!
lyla says:
September 20, 2012 at 4:46 pm
@NelMel says:
September 20, 2012 at 2:09 pm
(snipped) “I have never read anything about sightings of a red mustang car on 6/4/10 on Sauvie Island other than comments here, and on a few other crime blogs.”
————————————————————-
If it were true, it would be significant if Kaine’s Mustang was sighted on Sauvie Island June 4th.
Blink, anything you can share?
No confirmed sighting of that, ever.
B
*******
One of the Sauvie Island locals that called in the report of the red mustang that ran the truck off the road is name Toni Powers, the other is a female dump truck driver (can’t remember her name) that was traveling on the same road at the same time that morning. Both were interviewed by LE more than once.
what report? That should be easy enough to verify or FOIA.
B
what report? That should be easy enough to verify or FOIA.
B
*******
The report that the two separate locals made with regards to the mustang. IIRC, the calls to LE were made either the June 4th or 5th
Understood, but how have you verified these calls were ever made?
B
mas says:
September 20, 2012 at 6:44 pm
what report? That should be easy enough to verify or FOIA.
B
*******
The report that the two separate locals made with regards to the mustang. IIRC, the calls to LE were made either the June 4th or 5th
Understood, but how have you verified these calls were ever made?
B
******
Personal conversations
mas, respectfully, that is not verified.
B
Maybe she worked on DAD’s arm.
Toni M Powers – NW Massage & Wellness
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Pl44yJi1LpMJ:www.sauvieislandbenefit.org/2011%2520Auction%2520Catalog.pdf+toni+powers+%2B+sauvie+island&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESi0yfS35fWivwqb_8T7GNVXUOzW58MaggeFTBgWbRFhXbL1VZIkuLdQ43nQ8Da5mdhRZ9bRTHgsw1jncg6z3XGzQSeTztvMgZCeZ7WSIsSwIu-S-EVrk9T7hD7rut-Nj1fNpJ1x&sig=AHIEtbTs8fXyHb_2GfmfEnC87U54Pks9Lg
mas, respectfully, that is not verified.
B
********
Respectfully, how do you propose I provide verification when I did not record the conversation with her, I do not have access to LE records of their interview with her, etc.
Respectfully, I don’t. It just means it is unverified. That is ok to discuss as long as you are describing it as such. I just needed to mention it is a person’s account, and has yet to be corroborated with a verified source. Unless there is a link to the instant matter, any police reports about Sauvie are subject to FOIA.
B
The only account I’ve seen of the SI red mustang report and a white truck speeding around SI came from a blog connected to SI residents. As I said, I think I found the person who was writing about it, but again that was what she was told by someone else. Soooooooo?????? I’m darn sure LE would have at least questioned this person and those to whom she was referring as to who allegedly saw these two vehicles, but here’s where I go off that track…….the residents of SI were never, ever (to my knowledge anyway) given the pictures of TH, DDS the Horman pickup or anything else in the regard to Kyron’s disappearance. WHY? Why was that island searched so extensively, yet no one who lived there given the flier or apparently questioned? Just one conundrum after another.
@T. Ruth says:
September 20, 2012 at 11:37 pm
“The only account I’ve seen of the SI red mustang report and a white truck speeding around SI came from a blog connected to SI residents. As I said, I think I found the person who was writing about it, but again that was what she was told by someone else. Soooooooo?????? I’m darn sure LE would have at least questioned this person and those to whom she was referring as to who allegedly saw these two vehicles, but here’s where I go off that track…….the residents of SI were never, ever (to my knowledge anyway) given the pictures of TH, DDS the Horman pickup or anything else in the regard to Kyron’s disappearance. WHY? Why was that island searched so extensively, yet no one who lived there given the flier or apparently questioned? Just one conundrum after another.”
—————————————————————
I’m following a theory according to the media: LE searched SI because of TH’s cell phone pings…nothing more nothing less.
I started an exercise, thinking maybe it would be helpful to make a list of what LE must know by now, whether we actually know this information or not.
LE must know for certain:
1 – whether Kyron toured with a group
2 – whether the pictures at the school were real or photo shopped in some way
3 – what Mrs. Porter actually thought TH said to her
4 – whether there was a doctor’s appt for anyone in the Horman family anytime in June
5 – whether a doctor spoke to TH about Kyron and said anything about mini-seizures
6 – whether searching the Horman truck twice yielded any helpful information
7 – how long TH actually stayed at the gym
8 – what time TH was actually at each store (2 FM and 1 Albertson’s)
9 – whether TH went inside the Albertson’s and probably whether she bought anything
10 – whether TH used any of her time to wash/vacuum the truck
11 – what was in all 9-1-1 calls
12 – whether there was any other investigation going on which involved anyone from Kyron’s case – as undercover, suspect, witness
13 – the status of the Sauvie’s Island hair strands
14 – whether Kaine and/or the mustang ever left Intel during the day
15 – what the bus driver saw and said the afternoon of June 4th
16 – how often TH actually volunteered at the school
17 – about SZ (question is how much do they know)
18 – whether DY and KH are getting the SAME exact briefings now that it appears they don’t meet together anymore
19 – whether there was a lunch packed in Kyron’s backpack for June 4th (or did he always buy his lunch)
20 – the details of the Springfield meet-up plan for June 4th
21 – how many sex offenders in that area were interviewed and could be ruled out
22 – who, besides TH, is individually represented by an attorney regarding this case – Dede, we know. What about RS, Porter, Keefer, Cook, Stensen, others? Not a bad thing – just who thought they had more to contribute than “I saw her take a picture” and might need to have an attorney’s perspective.
23 – the status of the investigation involving all computers and pings
24 – who received the “hateful emails” and the content
25 – why DY and KH have taken different paths, and the backstory of each
26 – exactly what work RS did around Skyline School and neighborhood
27 – the status of RS’s family and immigration situation, where he lives
28 – they know fairly certainly some areas where Kyron is not
Remember – this is a list of what LE should be confident they actually know at this point – some things we know, some we don’t, but LE should. Please add or question as you see fit. I thought it might help if we could see where their conclusions could be coming from (they may agree with DY, but I don’t think they are blindly following only her feelings). I also get annoyed every so often with having to speculate about things that I know they must know and just won’t say they know even without giving us the actual facts. It’s like trying to help someone cook dinner blindfolded and without being given the menu and having to guess from sniffing the air for ingredients or listening to the sounds of bubbling or sizzling! Or something like that . . . JMO.
If I think LE already has an answer to a particular question, then I have to wonder if looking in that direction is worth the time unless we think someone is intentionally covering up the answer (which I can’t see at this point).
I still think it would be helpful to make a list of what WE actually do know without question. Seems like it might be fairly short.
Spent some time on you tube reviewing old
Video coverage of this case looking close at body language
And expressions
Nothing jumped out but it was interesting way to spend time
I went to the place where Dy has donations
It sounds like there is some problem
With trolls or something
That’s all I have done today
erose says:
September 20, 2012 at 2:51 pm
TY is Medford PD isn’t he? See page 8.
http://www.ci.medford.or.us/Files/101910%20PAC%20Agenda%20Packet.PDF
—————————–
@erose – I looked through this. I saw that 3 people from Medford came up to Lake Oswego for the funeral, but Tony wasn’t one of them. Did I miss anything? Thanks.
MockingbirdSings says:
September 21, 2012 at 1:50 am
*****
Wow you rock Mockingbird…“bestest” concise list of issues that we have talked circles around. Those answers are most likely in all those binders. Following Blink’s latest piece for Megan Sharpton has occupied a large space of my brain as of late yet your post here today could throw me into overload. My poor family ..”no soup for you today” Great job.
@MBS. nice idea and list. On 3 & 14: I don’t think it possible for anyone to know another’s “actual thoughts.” And yesterday I read a comment somewhere while looking for “stang” from someone who worked at a commercial property employees know the “rabbit holes.”
The Sauvie story was on many blogs, often with the same wording so either blogs were copied or same person posted. by Sept ’10, the licsense plate was Terri’s. godlikeproductions played a role, but it was on mainstream blogs & obscure ones dating to June 2010. While it was said to be a personal story at times, it was never verified with LE the Sauvie resident(s) had made a police report. I think this is because articles did not mention one was made. What some blog posters said later in the cycle was “the tip line was called.” And, as mas said, tip line reports are part of the investigation and will not be verified by LE.
kudos to Clackamas:
http://www.clackamas.us/sheriff/pressreleases/2012-09-19-CCSOPR-OperationSOAP.html
Too bad Tony didn’t offer to go to the funeral and drive Kyron home.
Did he ever drive, the way Kaine’s spouse did?
I don’t see how gofundme could have trolls, tho I haven’t been there in awhile, because only Kelly Ramirez can post.
She even does all Desiree’s posts for her. But I think it would be an epectable side effect of asking the public to fund you. The site raising money for the retirement of the older bus monitor who was bullied by bus kids in NY, whom I contributed to, got plenty of posts complaining about people who chose that project to donate to–screeds even against strangers who chose that giving. Why should Kelly’s project be insulated unlike all other personal projects that beg online?
31. RedRose says:
September 20, 2012 at 5:07 pm
http://www.bizapedia.com/or/DLS-ENTERPRISES.html
as of 3/2012. DDS living in Beaverton
****************************************************
I think that’s an old address. I was told DDS is back in Tualatin.
28. RedRose says:
September 20, 2012 at 4:46 pm
OMG – now I’m not a detective by any means, but there HAS to be a connection here. This from “back at the beginning”:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/99146044.html?tab=video&c=y
which says:
Healthy living is what brought Terri Horman and Dede Spicher together. The two met at the Edge Gym in Beaverton, KATU News learned.
…and then today, when someone wrote about the perv who was arrested in Beaverton, location pops up again.(by the way, in a direct line north from Skyline school and I think near where Kyron’s Wall of Hope is:
@Rose says:September 20, 2012 at 1:17 am
fyi
http://www.oregonlive.com/north-of26/index.ssf/2012/09/authorities_concerned_bethany.html#incart_river_default
And Kyron’s Wall of Hope is on exactly the same street as these two others: xtreme edge. I guess birds of a feather flock together… (Maybe they are all the same and just changed their names)
**************************************
Yes, the Wall of Hope is located at The Edge Fitness because that’s where Kaine works out and his friend is the owner. He still works out there often. I see his truck parked there quite a bit. I believe DDS and Terri met when it was still a 24 Hr. Fitness. It was bought out and turned into The Edge. The NEW 24 Hr. Fitness is on Waterhouse and Terri had a memebership to both places. The video showing Kaine and Terri coming out of the gym in the early days of Kyron’s disappearance was taken at the New 24 Hour.
Not sure how you connect the new arrest of the Perv in Beaverton to the Edge…..???
I looked to gofundme & coukdn’t find the troll thing. But I see FB is now used there for comments. Since FB’s stock in the oublic offerinv Went South big time, there have seemed so many FB hdqtrs changes to me as a distant observor, and since I downloaded the Iphone Os6 two days ago, so many sites are redesigned and reload,! like Youtube, I csn hardly figure my way around sites. So I don’t kniw if gofundme redesigned (as it has), or FB impacted the site, or Apple impacted that site redesign.
What I did see was activity & workers commended & a FB site commended who were anti TMH Roseburg leaders, and with the suit coming I think it’s foolish of Ramirez to link so closely to those interests, because she really does not suffice to distance Desired from gofundme. The site nobly is at 10 percent of goal, but the NY elderly bus monitor in a few days outstripped goal by hundreds of thousands, which I think internet tends to do with sone causes. If this were a “search for Kyron” funding to pay search teams, a “PI for Kyron”, a lawyer advocate (guardian ad litem effort) for Kyron with LE, and so on I think significantly more would have come in,
sorry for all the typos. OS6 turned my phone into a real computer
but it’s also so glitchy I’m in an avoidance phase
@MBS, The letter reads that the PD of TY sent two honor guards to the funeral. Someone previously asked about TY. I think it neither proves nor disproves whether or not he attended, but verifies that Medford PD participated. Sometimes I post the link and see what people think, I like the input, without any influence.
Rose says:
September 21, 2012 at 10:59 am
@MBS. nice idea and list. On 3 & 14: I don’t think it possible for anyone to know another’s “actual thoughts.” And yesterday I read a comment somewhere while looking for “stang” from someone who worked at a commercial property employees know the “rabbit holes.”
————————–
#3 – true, poor choice of word. What I should have said was that LE knows what Mrs. Porter says Terri told her and whether there were papers to fill out or not and whether it was Thurs. or Friday that she told her and whether it was in the gym. All we know is what the media has reported that Terri wrote in emails about what she said or her version of what Mrs. Porter thought she said.
#14 – I remember someone saying after the Sauvie Island story that Intel has cameras in their parking lots and also an attendant or security person. I would expect that to be true because of the work they do and the international scope of that work, and because big parking lots are often “shopping grounds” for those who break into cars. However, I have never been there. Kaine would absolutely have to check in and out. I believe LE knows whether Kaine left Intel and went back that day. If he did not, then I don’t think the car left – even though I’m sure they each have a set of keys available to both vehicles, it would be way too risky and complicated to have someone go get the mustang, drive it around, and all the way back to Intel.
Update to list #14: I believe LE knows when Kaine arrived and left Intel on June 4th. I suspect they also know whether the Mustang could have left without him and been returned before he left work.
I must say I do not know how Intel’s system works – do they have picture ID and a code to enter, or use fingerprint or retina match, or a security person at a desk? Does he work in a private office with a private entrance and ask not to be disturbed all day, or would his colleagues notice he wasn’t there at his desk and for lunch? I don’t think Kaine is on the level of private office, private entrance, etc., just thinking he must have had Intel witnesses that he was there.