Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
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Just saw AMW, not much new, some wrong facts like saying they live in Beaverton……
unraveling the AMW Lifetime puzzle to me:
http://m.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/silver-spring-based-americas-most-wanted-finds-new-success-on-lifetime/2012/07/29/gJQAVQ80IX_story.html
apparently AMW was given a 20 episode contract with this channel.
that K term should be up, or considered for renewal, this month.
After watching America’s Most Wanted tonight, I am confused. First couple of minutes into the show, they announced that the story was from Beaverton (why?). And secondly, I know it’s was covered on here a long time ago, but what is the correct pronounciation of Kyrons name? Is it pronounced Ky-rin or Ky-RON? The narrator of the story kept calling him Ky-Ron – emphazing a pause in between the Ky and the r-o-n.
Just finished watching AMW a bit ago. The only things I found interesting is #1 The leader the show opened with was Gates (I know his voice) saying that Kyron was last seen at 8:45.
#2 Walsh says that LE says that Terri left WITH Kiara.
#3 Walsh said Terri “turned her back on Kiara”. (Really bizarre statement.)
Other than that, I would like to know why AMW’s show backed by and showing Kaine, calls Kyron ” KY—RON”. Almost like a comic book character. (Koloring with KY-RON?) Desiree calls Kyron, Ky’run, and so does everyone else, just a weird little catch in the get-along.
Glad this little boys picture got out on national air tonight, but I saw nothing new other than above.
If Kyron was last seen @ 8:45, and Gina Zimmerman saw the picture being taken of Kyron at 8:30…….then can someone enlighten me about TP’s account? Day before? Is the child just mixed up day-wise? If so, then LE has a very, very small window to work with: 15 freakin’ minutes. What happened, or in our case, what could have speculatively happened between 8:30 and 8:45 (when Kyron should have reported to class and re-grouped) without anyone seeing anything? Perhaps we need to be looking at a smaller window, than a larger one. IDK, just rambling thoughts. Does anyone here think TP lied? FWIW, I’ll go first, I don’t.
Yeah I was thinking pleeeeease say his name right…..
So John Walsh calls Kyron Ky-RON instead of Kyrun, wth? He only spoke to KH and Jason Gates of MCSO. I am curious why no chat with DY?
KH reiterates that he thinks TH is involved and asks people, if we see Kyron, call his name, take pictures, get a license plate, etc. Nothing new, but at least some exposure for our little frog guy. I was so hoping for more, what a mess this is.
Just finished watching AMV about Kyron.
Very surprised that glaringly absent was any mentioning of DY and her efforts to find Kyron!
@T. Ruth says:
September 14, 2012 at 10:29 pm
(snipped)” Other than that, I would like to know why AMW’s show backed by and showing Kaine, calls Kyron ” KY—RON”. Almost like a comic book character. (Koloring with KY-RON?) Desiree calls Kyron, Ky’run, and so does everyone else, just a weird little catch in the get-along.
Glad this little boys picture got out on national air tonight, but I saw nothing new other than above.”
————————————————————-
I agree nothing new…Kaine still believes Ky is alive. Whatever works..the alternative is unbearable. Bless this child’s soul.
I watched the AMW piece about Kyron Horman it sounded like JW had some of the timeline of events mixed up like when Terri hired a lawyer he made it sound like that happened before the MFH and Kaine moving out. He also made it sound like Terri tried to hire someone to murder Kaine after Kyron went missing.
Of course he got his facts from Kaine but you would think that his team would have done some of their own research.
it was interesting to see Kaine mislead everyone as to why Terri has not ever been charged in the murder for hire. I think Kaine said LE has not charged TH with the MFH because LE dosen’t want to detract from Kyrons case (what a bunch of typical Kaine baloney IMO).
———–
I also thought the weightlifting picture of Terri from 2005 was a really cheap shot.
This show makes me wonder how solid the facts that Mr. Walsh purports to have about other cases. This shows details seemed to be biased and are somewhat misrepresented.
————-
http://voices.yahoo.com/horman-sting-details-kyrons-stepmom-allegedly-seeks-6345074.html
-snip
Undercover Police Sting
Police investigating the disappearance of Terri Moulton’s stepson Kyron Horman happened to become privy to the landscaper’s claim about the now reclusive stepmom and set up a sting operation between the missing child’s stepmother, the landscaper and an undercover law enforcement officer.
Terri Moulton, along with the landscaper in question, and the undercover law enforcement officer conversed on June 26, 2010. The sting operation was recorded, unbeknown to Terri, with the landscaper attempting to revisit Moulton’s earlier, alleged, murder-for-hire offer. Terri, however, wasn’t biting,
providing no definitive evidence to law enforcement to support an arrest.
Desiree will always be special to me
Lots of women are fooled by guys
My main concern here is who this DRD met in lock up
Who he knew where he has been
What he would do
How bad is this guy
Thanks for the info on AMW
I am wondering how I day Kyron now
I think I say both Kyron and Kyrun
Maybe more Kyron
Not that it matters
I hope he comes home soon
I get up every day expecting him to be found that day
I was disappointed with AMW. It was if they hadn’t asked for updates prior to filming. Kyron was last seen at 8:45? IMO, that statement sounds like the old.. “last person to see Kyron alive was Terri when she left him in the hall.”
I hope the “Ky-RON” deal wasn’t just plain laziness on the part of the reporters. I mean you’d think they would check first to see how his name was supposed to be pronounced. Maybe they just said it like they read it.
Beaverton? Really? Ok.. If MMW was trying to send some sort of covert message by saying “Beaverton” then I owe an apology, but IMO they didn’t do their homework, and the show was a disappointment.
Thanks T Ruth for info.
fwiw Ky-ron (emphasis last syllable) is how a staffer reading his name from silver spring MD,
where AMW now originates, would read/pronounce his name. With respect to Mr Walsh, it is entirely
possible Fox cancelled the show last year for reasons other than the budget excuse.
From what you say TRuth, a staffer wrote this script from old media stories and used old
film clips like Gates, primarily since JW was not filmed on camera in interview with an LE spokesperson
as is the TV interviewer sine qua non. What you saw was what we’ve seen before.
@TRuth. Walsh’s “turned her back on Kiara” sounds like how that same staffer, or intern from my daughter’s former high school or Montgomery Community College in Silver Spring, would summarize press accounts from anonymous sources panning TH for not contesting the RO. I am gravely disappointed, except the face was published nationally.
I just finished reading an article about Maria Ridulph who was murdered in 1957. Her case was just solved, killer procesecuted. He was a 17 year old neighborhood boy when he charmed, lured, & killed Maria. He was questioned briefly after the girls disappearance, but had an alibi. His mother bolstered his alibi by lying for him.
Etan Patz was also killed by a neighborhood, teenaged boy who was briefly questioned by police and then determined to not be part of the case. His family and church knew he was involved, yet the case went unsolved for 33 years.
In both cases, the killers were seen very close to where the victims were last seen : Maria’s murderer was playing in the snow with her. Etan’s murderer worked in the convenience store right next to Etan’s bus stop (the only place close by that sold soda & Etan set out that day with the intent to buy a soda).
In my own neighorhood, we had a serial killer in the 1990′s. Everyone was terrified and thinking it was a man. He turned out to be a 19 year old teenager.
I have said this before, but now it’s in my thoughts screaming at me again. Maybe Kyron’s kidnapper is a teenager. Maybe that’s why there is no sketch. Maybe he is the brother of one of Kyron’s classmates or a neighborhood teen.
Who on the SF attendee list was a teenage boy on June 4, 2010? Would he even had made it onto the list if he just stopped by to see a siblings project? Or dropped the project off?
“Cool electric one” sounds more like kid and teenager terminology than adult terminology to me.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/15/former-cop-convicted-1957-murder/
http://m.silverspringdowntown.com/go.php?id=955
looking into this AMD as possibly shoestring programming compiled by goodness knows what intern,
when googling, both Lance Helfin & Americas Most Wanted wikipedias give “error message” as do other Heflin associated urls. arts nonprofits came to silver spring urban district addys for County subsidies.
Mark Oliver now in charge?
http://www.silverspringstudios.com/CapabilityStatement.pdf
bread & butter – gsa contracts?
just trying to find out who writes & produces AMW these days since
Fox cancelled.
Oliver’s video editing & audio
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/marc-oliver/6/724/9b2?_mSplash=1
also filmography for AMW: http://movies.nytimes.com/person/1064265/Marc-Oliver
He holds the answer to video editing & name pronunciation on AMW imo.
for corporationwiki, remove my (dot) and return to a url with a .
otherwise this would’nt post.
Apologies for stream of consciousness research.
I understand now Blink aiming to be All Done pre-posting.
one of 2 broadcast quality contractors to Nat’l Archives: http://www.archives.gov/research/order/sound-recordings.html
http://www.corporationwiki (dot) com/Maryland/Silver-Spring/marc-oliver/82543464.aspx
John E Walsh corporations
http://www.corporationwiki (dot) com/Florida/Vero-Beach/john-e-walsh-P270441.aspx
Walsh owns the studio & employs Oliver http://www.corporationwiki (dot) com/Maryland/Silver-Spring/silverspring-studios-llc/53571507.aspx
Walsh interview
http://billdeyoung.com/walsh.htm
Walsh owns what in my opinion must be an extremely lucrative studio in a subsidized urban arts district in Silver Spring, lucrative due to contracts with Nat’l Archives, Homeland Security, and other govt agencies (said contracts likely occurring in Bush years).
Video editing, audio, & filmography seems to be delegated to his James Madison grad Office and technical administrator who runs his business, and whose plate imo
is full.
Discovery Communications, previously also in Silver Spring, used to advertise at our high school for interns. Idk what Oliver uses by way of research to cover all his filmography assignments, but anyone who doesn’t care about sources & methods risks the equivalent of Sam Bacilli.
Another thing about AMW last night: KH said he really would like the community, people that were at Skyline on 6/4/10, to think back over that day. He also asked that they please look through their photos and videos, a clue could be in the back ground of one. This surprised me, because I honestly thought that LE had gotten copies of all those images from the attendees, staff, etc. Maybe I am just naive in my thinking.
I was also suprised that Walsh used Beaverton rather than Portland. When you look at a map, Skyline School is not in the city limits of either, it is rural Multnomah County. Perhaps this is why MCSO had the case rather than PPB from the beginning, IDK.
—————————————-
cd says:
September 14, 2012 at 2:08 pm
Idahogal says:
September 14, 2012 at 10:37 am
Snip>>>>
I don’t think Blink would have included the information about DRD and DY in her piece unless she was pretty sure it was true. I believe Blink has better access to look these things up then we do and is a careful researcher. Also Blinks piece did not say DY was married to DRD only that she had lived with him in 1995. And filed a protection order against him.
****
@cd- I was not inferring that Blink is horsing around in any way. It was a question, and the answer is, we don’t know for sure at this point. No snark intended here, sorry if it came across that way. I admit to chewing on my feet often, and they taste awful.
—————————–
Malty says:
September 14, 2012 at 2:34 pm
I am really confused
Was there a DRD in DY’s past or not
I can’t imagine any media wanting to touch that
While she is crying for her lost son
****
@Malty – I do think that many local reporters are sympathetic to both DY and KH. That said, they do not run the show at their stations, newspapers, mags, etc., someone is giving them directions. They certainly did research on KH, and his SO brother Kristian’s arrest*, why not DY? I have to wonder: If a reporter had been able to confirm and source that DY was in a relationship with DRD , wouldn’t they have put it out there by now? It is like the topless pics of HRH Kate, just awful but it “sells”. All JMHO of how the media works in this digital age.
* http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-12134-troubled_family.html
@Idahogal
I chew on my feet to I guess but I just don’t like to think
This was some relationship as such
Just because they shared a roof if they did
With his record he has to be a liar plus
Plus plus
I haven’t seen anyone post this story yet, a frightening example of a school almost “losing a child”.
http://www.kptv.com/story/19530780/kindergartner-sent-home-with-stranger
——————
FWIW, KPTV did a tiny write up about the AMW show:
http://www.kptv.com/story/19547396/americas-most-wanted-to-shine-spotlight-on-disappearance-of-kyron-horman
I am thinking maybe AMW is spread too thin, focusing on so many types of crimes and cases, rather than honing in on missing kid’s stories. Maybe we need another show that only reports on children’s cases.
———
cd says:
September 15, 2012 at 1:55 am
@cd- Great post, spot on, IMO.
That Ky-RON thing made me angry at AMW’s carelessness and rudeness. I’ve never heard Kaine or Desiree or TY pronounce it any way but “KYrun/KYrin.” Agree with all observations not much new, weird misinformations/omissions. One thing I haven’t seen anyone post is Kaine’s request to the public to keep in mind Kyron doesn’t look 7 anymore, they showed the age progression pictures with and without glasses, and Kaine encouraged the viewers, if they thought they saw a child that looked like him, to call out his name, see that response, get a picture, etc. So Kaine is still holding on to the “he’s out there somewhere” line. I thought Kaine looked good physically, thinner and with a little dark fuzz on top.
)
(Soon after I found BOC about a week after June 4 2010 and became obsessed with this little guy some 3,000 miles from me, we had dinner w/friends in a sports bar. There was a kid that looked so much like Kyron, I smilingly stopped by the table on my pretend trip to the bathroom and asked, “Do you like Carolina like your brother there wearing the Tar Heel shirt?” [What I wanted to ask was "Do you root for Oregon teams, Kyron??!!"] He giggled “NO! I like State!” and the adults laughingly told me whatever his brother liked, he liked the opposite, had been that way since he was born. His name was Milo. But he was the spitting image of pics I had seen of Kyron but not the little guy after all. My DH and friends demanded I get some intervention for my obsession at that point!
Idahogal says:
September 15, 2012 at 11:00 am
(snipped)
I was also suprised that Walsh used Beaverton rather than Portland. When you look at a map, Skyline School is not in the city limits of either, it is rural Multnomah County. Perhaps this is why MCSO had the case rather than PPB from the beginning, IDK.
—————————————-
@Idahogal – you are correct about Skyline location. I thought this was clear much earlier, but it came around again. It’s a bit confusing because, as I posted again not too long ago, a school can be in Portland Public Schools, District #1, but NOT in the city limits of Portland. Same with Beaverton Schools and City – some of the small districts which merged years ago led to this result.
————————————
cd says:
September 14, 2012 at 2:08 pm
Idahogal says:
September 14, 2012 at 10:37 am
Snip>>>>
I don’t think Blink would have included the information about DRD and DY in her piece unless she was pretty sure it was true. I believe Blink has better access to look these things up then we do and is a careful researcher. Also Blinks piece did not say DY was married to DRD only that she had lived with him in 1995. And filed a protection order against him.
****
@cd- I was not inferring that Blink is horsing around in any way. It was a question, and the answer is, we don’t know for sure at this point.
—————————–
@ all – Does anybody think Tony Young would have married anyone without doing a background check? Does anybody think Desiree would have married Tony without being honest about her “past” if she had one? Does anybody think if Desiree had told Tony about anyone shady in her past, he would not have checked out that person? NOT saying he would use police resources to do that.
I’m not saying everybody does background checks, although I personally think it’s a good idea and have done that for my (adult) daughters’ dates at their request in some circumstances, not because of suspicions, but just the opposite, because someone was really liked with a potential to a lasting relationship – and because a child was included in that. Some might see it as a matter of love equals trust (a sometimes fatal mistake), but I see it as wanting a relationship to last and not trusting one’s own judgment based on past experiences. In Tony’s case, I think the additional reasons are obvious, including career and a strong desire to protect someone you love.
In the early 90′s many people lost long term jobs
Places shut down
In my case it was 92
After 23 yrs the place folded on us
It was late 96 before I started getting full time work and on
my feet again
Many people moved in together to survive
most of those cases did not work out well
So I am not sure what was going on
With Desiree
T. Ruth says:
September 14, 2012 at 10:29 pm
Just finished watching AMW a bit ago. The only things I found interesting is #1 The leader the show opened with was Gates (I know his voice) saying that Kyron was last seen at 8:45.
#2 Walsh says that LE says that Terri left WITH Kiara.
#3 Walsh said Terri “turned her back on Kiara”. (Really bizarre statement.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi T. Ruth,
What I found most interesting about the clip was:
1. Kaine saying (twice) that TMH was the last person to see Kyron that morning and
2. Gates’ statement that Kyron was last seen at 8:45 AM that day.
It was pretty clear from the interview that Walsh identifies with Kaine. I just wish he hadn’t continually mispronounced Kyron’s name.
@ Malty
I thought it was determined that DRD was not in “our” Desiree Anns’ life, but rather another Desiree with a different middle name. Am I correct?
@Idahogal. You say JW spoke to KH & Gates?
Did Gates say audible words in a
face to face with JW?
Not having seen it,
I had wondered if Gate’s audibles
were audio clips only, from
Portland media early in this investigation.
Maybe I’m too easy to give the ‘benefit of a doubt’ so please take this as my humble opinion only, but Mr. Walsh was talking to Kaine, so he heard Kaine say ‘Kyron’. I don’t believe that they don’t know how to say his name. It annoyed me, but it reminded me of how my mother in law says waRshington. It used to silently drive the ocd side of me ‘nucking futs’!! – one of my mom’s favorite sayings : ) The rational side of me, however, knows that my in-laws live near (lake oswego – close to Portland), so she obviously knows there isn’t an ‘R’ in the word, it’s just how she talks. Mr. John Walsh isn’t insensitive, I wonder of that is just ‘how he talks’.
Either way, the piece got me all choked up, but happy his name and face are out there, I just can’t imagine. Kyron needs to come home, he needs peace. Sending positive energy and belief that he will be found into the universe.
Strange ties to BEAVERTON on AMW
Has this TREJO OR suspect been looked at:
Traits and habits:
Plays and watches soccer
Worked in landscaping
Hangs at trans-sexual bars
Tattoos
Authorities in BEAVERTON
are on the hunt for Mauricio Beltran-TREJO
Broke into BEAVERTON home 4/2/12, strangled woman until unconscious, sexually assaulted; ties to BEAVERTON and Hillsboro
Authorities need your help in tracking him down.
See photo on link.
He looks similar to others we’ve looked at here.
http://www.amw.com/
OK…just going to say it. That whole “Ky Ron” pronunciation was strange. In light of the old news, “Beaverton”, no DY, that was over the top. So, I guess I’ve read here too long to let it slide. I started thinking…during the show…”What does this mean? Is J Walsh sending out a CLUE? RON? Beaverton? What is the connection? The only Ron we’ve heard of in this case is Tarver. Oh, my. I can’t even watch an episode of AMW without picking it into bite-size clues…Blink, what have you done to my BRAIN?! LOL.
Exactly what I had hoped, good job!
B
While I certainly agree with all the Blinster’s here about pronunciation and other stuff we must all be thankful that SOMEONE did a story on this poor little missing boy. Only if all kids had a similar opportunity to air their missing faces! I shouted at the screen more than once when I heard KyRon but my hubby reminded me that said wrong or right he was featured on tv again and that is a good thing.
The meat of this post is my last entry, Chiang’s tweet about his Portland trip
on Aug 30 and a couple prdceding ones with his history . This initially wouldn’t post so I am trying (dot) again. so hard to figure out which url of many prevents posting.
Owner of the other Broadcast quality archives contractor besides Silver Spring Studio is here:
http://www.mylife (dot) com/james-cutting
(Another small business local addy.) He’s been In archival sound work since 1971 and seems like a longterm archival professional.
Wiki claims he had 100+ employees & D&B says 80.
http://www.corporationwiki (dot)
com/Maryland/Bethesda/the-cutting-corporation/50851599.aspx
http://companies (dot) findthecompany (dot)
com/m/l/6241869/The-Cutting-Corporation-in-Bethesda-MD
Silver Spring Studios, owned by Walsh & producer of AMW per my earlier url post, has about 6 employees:
http://silverspring.patch (dot) com/listings/silver-spring-studios
how did SSS become the second of only 2 contractors for purchasers of broadcast quality material from the National Archives? wasn’t minority preference. Was this contract even bid out?
very informative
http://m (dot) washingtonpost (dot) com/business/capitalbusiness/silver-spring-based-americas-most-wanted-finds-new-success-on-lifetime/2012/07/29/gJQAVQ80IX_story.html
Looking up the AMW names in the Post article, Silver Spring Studios also casts & directs the show Top Cops. Greg Klein is SSS’s co-producer
http://www.dragonukconnects (dot) com/docdownload.php?id=3049.pdf
See first comment by Greg Klein who says he travels the country
producing AMW & does subcontract out to other accompanying production businesses
http://mt.reel-scout (dot) com/up_docs/crew/6086.doc
I was looking for Roger Chiang who said in the url above he’s been the exec in charge of AMW (ceo, cfo etc) in wash post article above and found this (2004 case?): He got 3 years in prison
http://yellowworld (dot) org/politics/291.html
(I don’t know why I’m looking
under rocks aka Penn State’s political World, except I am blown away a little 6-8 person business owned by JW both produces AMW, many other shows, takes in private contract work, but claims to have govt contracts with gsa, homeland security & is only one of 2 broadcast quality contracts with Natl Archives.)
same guy? http://www (dot) mdd (dot) uscourts (dot) gov/Opinions/Opinions/Chiang0724.pdf
Yes, it’s same guy
…. see the Aug 30 tweet re AMW Portland pics:
https://mobile (dot) twitter (dot) com/rogerjchiang
answers the quality question
I am having to commit url . harikari
to post this
What it means, Kat, is Roger J Chaing, man in charge he says of AMW for the last 5 years was per his tweet in Portland & on the job. You can infer what you wish from
his Court pleadings and adjudication resulting in prison term. Probably
Colson or a Dem
Senator he worked for got him a new lease on life with Walsh’s show, but imo
you can make inferences from prior history & Court pleadings about propensity for accuracy & research skills. As well as make those inferences from Klein & Top Cops etc for reality. One url
I axed showed former long term
show researchers axed when Fox cut the show on June 2011
34. jan says:
September 15, 2012 at 5:30 pm
*******************************************
Hi Jan,
We covered a different Trejo, who was found dead. I posted about the Trejo you mention a couple of pages back. Quite odd IMO!
the amw pictures from portland tweeter, cfo & ceo
http://articles.boston.com/2004-11-12/news/29208521_1_democratic-senatorial-campaign-committee-fund-raising-senate-campaigns
For more than two years, TH has had zipped lips.
She has lost everything in her life, quickly, and publicly, for that. It didn’t “crack” her.
Okay, folks.
Why?
Walk in TH’s shoes for a second. If you lost your entire life, nearly instantly, became the laughing stock of the internet, created wrath on endless Facebook pages, had people stalking your new location with posters, had your ex-husband say horrible things about you being a sloppy drunk and bad mother, had your ex-husband’s ex-wife say terrible things about you, had entire comment sections on news websites devoted to what a scumbag you were, etc., etc., etc…and YOU DID NOT BREAK….
Why?
Trust me, no lawyer could have kept me quiet for this amount of time with all the trash talk about me all this time. I’m no rose.
having seen a couple guys be threatened with a defamation suit for modifying his wikipedia on Chiang’s 2010 tweets, as well as his disgruntlement with his federal
judge about the same time, nothing more today except sharing the below for background. apparently he attributed his misappropriation of funds to ptsd over sister’s death. The below reveals he was hired by AMW by May 2007.
http://www.mypeaceiofferyou.com/2008.05.01_arch.html
http://www.mypeaceiofferyou.com/id6.
http://www.mypeaceiofferyou.com/id6.html
Shows are as accurate as methods, research, and sources, and the willingness to self correct.
Let’s see if AMW self corrects.
The show was sad all the way around. Nothing new. Nothing. Nothing about the “new evidence” Kaine Horman recently claimed had surfaced. No information about an alleged SZ. Or was there? The only thing new to me, was that Walsh said “Terri left with Kiara”. We’ve never really been told that by anyone, not that I can recall two years later anyway. So, if Terri left with Kiara……how do they know that? Doesn’t that mean that someone indeed saw Terri leave? Why, yes it does. If someone saw Terri leave with Kiara AND Kyron, wouldn’t she be in jail? Why yes, I think so. So whomever saw Terri leave with Kiara, did not see that same Terri leave with Kyron. Who then, left with Kyron? If not Terri….obviously it’s SZ. Am I making this too simple? Did we just get a media confirmation of SZ?
Thinking outside the box here. Unless you lived here and watched the news,it may not have been written anywhere. I remember when, a couple of months after Kyron disappeared, suddenly there was a story on the news about a raid the police did on DDS’s condo (I can’t find it link, but it was newsfilm, maybe not on the Internet).
What I thought was really odd was that they walked out of her apartment, one police officer carrying a big cement foundation block. At the time I thought to myself, oh, for sure, who keeps cement foundation blocks in their apartment?
I don’t know what it all means except to my mind it was strange that they would take a big ole cement foundation block as evidence (if that’s what it was). It wasn’t in a garage, it was in her HOUSE. Bookcase?
By the way, with all of the AMW comments, we need to keep in mind that they brought Kyron’s name before the public again, which is most important. They write those programs to grab peoples’ attention; just hope it did and they have some calls.
Mr.Walsh said KyRON? Kind of like . . . HOW DO YOU MESS THAT UP?
AMW had a limited amount of time devoted to Kyron, and they had different “audiences” in mind, narrow and wide.
imo, whatever was said and shown went to the goal of impacting ALL audiences.
jmo, buttons were pushed and KyRON may have been just ONE of them.
Mr.Walsh does know to say Kyron’s name the way KH and DY do:
2:14 time mark
“America’s Most Wanted Filming In Portland”
http://www.kptv.com/video?clipId=7669150&autostart=true
@VLH says:
September 15, 2012 at 5:13 pm
“Maybe I’m too easy to give the ‘benefit of a doubt’ so please take this as my humble opinion only, but Mr. Walsh was talking to Kaine, so he heard Kaine say ‘Kyron’. I don’t believe that they don’t know how to say his name. It annoyed me, but it reminded me of how my mother in law says waRshington. It used to silently drive the ocd side of me ‘nucking futs’!! – one of my mom’s favorite sayings : ) The rational side of me, however, knows that my in-laws live near (lake oswego – close to Portland), so she obviously knows there isn’t an ‘R’ in the word, it’s just how she talks. Mr. John Walsh isn’t insensitive, I wonder of that is just ‘how he talks’.
Either way, the piece got me all choked up, but happy his name and face are out there, I just can’t imagine. Kyron needs to come home, he needs peace. Sending positive energy and belief that he will be found into the universe.”
—————————————————————
“Warshington”, yep my Mother-in-Law too!
I was hoping AMW would have put a little more detail into the investigation in their piece. It was “old” news.
Does anyone besides KH believe Kyron is alive? I can’t imagine under what circumstances it would be…makes me shudder.
I can understand how DY could have been (for a short time) involved with DRD.
Desiree and DRD
I know that when I was a young single mom living in North Hollywood Calif I met a few unsavory characters. Some of them were quite charming only as the relationship advanced did I realize this person was not the kind of person I should be associating with. I guess you could call it youthful ignorance.
Looking back now I would know better.
So even if at sometime in her life DY was friend/girlfriend to this DRD then I don’t think it should define her life. I would hope TY would feel the same way.
The only reason I mentioned DY’s background was because of the attention paid to and speculation about even the most obscure part of Terri’s young life which is usually translated into some kind of deadly motive or proof of current criminal activity on Terri’s part.
I guess everyone has a past.
Wonder when Part 2 comes out…I’ve turned into a junkie…a blink junkie !
@January
#30
I have high hope this is true
But I do remember back in the 90′s how 3-6
People would rent a place together until they could find
Work again
It wasn’t personal
And usually ended with someone mad
That is just history
I am all for Desiree and her Kyron
@T. Ruth says:
September 15, 2012 at 8:29 pm
(snipped) “So whomever saw Terri leave with Kiara, did not see that same Terri leave with Kyron. Who then, left with Kyron? If not Terri….obviously it’s SZ. Am I making this too simple? Did we just get a media confirmation of SZ?”
————————————————————-
I do believe!
http://vimeo.com/gregrklein
Is this guy still the chief writer/producer for AMW he said he was a year ago?
Many were let go June 2011. If so, why does the ceo/cfo Chiang travel
to location also? Yesterday I posted a url to an actor’s resume saying he was hired
by Klein to play cop roles on top cops. Yet Klein calls it a documentary.
What’s to believe any more?