Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
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The AMW piece was annoying in many ways…KYron, Beaverton, the body building shot of TMH…..but it was good to put the case on a national platform…Have Desiree and Kaine become so estranged that she refused to particpate, or was she excluded?
Gates was clearly new footage, as he has changed in the last two years.
I have always believed that TP was either mistaken or coached.
Hopefully, something new will come to light.
You have to log out of whatever you were in first and then post, I cant do it.
B
RedRose says:
September 15, 2012 at 8:32 pm
Snip>>>
What I thought was really odd was that they walked out of her apartment, one police officer carrying a big cement foundation block. At the time I thought to myself, oh, for sure, who keeps cement foundation blocks in their apartment?
@RedRose- I remember that too, although IIRC the cinder block came from a different friend’s house, maybe Kerry Sama-Rubio from Intel?
Btw, she is currently/still FB friends with TH. IDK if the TH FB page has been created by someone other than TH, it is hard for me to believe that TH would have an active FB page.
——————————–
kimberly says:
September 15, 2012 at 7:29 pm
34. jan says:
September 15, 2012 at 5:30 pm
*******************************************
Hi Jan,
We covered a different Trejo, who was found dead. I posted about the Trejo you mention a couple of pages back. Quite odd IMO!
———————————–
FWIW, here is an article I found on the other Trejo story. It doesn’t appear to have been a homicide, maybe an OD? IIRC his MySpace at the time indicated ties with an LA area gang. Also, we had driven right past this spot the day before, IMO must have been down the hill a bit from the road, not in plain sight, still creeped me out a bit.
http://www.kptv.com/story/14819369/deputies-id-body-found-in-northwest-portland-3-06-2011
Snip>>>
Deputies say someone spotted the remains of Javier Trejo-Richarte, 35, early Saturday
An autopsy did not reveal any trauma and a toxicology test is pending.
*********************
Rose says:
September 15, 2012 at 4:53 pm
@Idahogal. You say JW spoke to KH & Gates?
Did Gates say audible words in a
face to face with JW?
Not having seen it,
I had wondered if Gate’s audibles
were audio clips only, from
Portland media early in this investigation.
———
@Rose-IIRC no, he was not face to face, just by himself. I cannot tell you if it was a old clip or not, however it was not familiar to me. Hopefully there will be a copy of it online soon.
This definitely appears to be new footage of Gates – so this means LE believes Kyron was removed from the school very near the time that his stepmother left.
New fact: “Terri left the school with Kiara.”
Terri was not seen leaving the school with Kyron, just Kiara. So what does LE think happened?
1. Terri killed Kyron inside the school (where?) and no one saw or heard anything, and she stuffed him into some over-sized gym bag and carried it on her arm while she strolled Kiara to the truck?
2. Terri told Kyron to hide (no one saw him after 8:45, according to LE), and then she drove around to the front of the school (the most visible place) and Kyron ran from his hiding spot (where?) and jumped unnoticed into a huge white and chrome idling F250 pick up.
3. Terri met someone else at the school, pointed out her stepson, the one in the CSI t-shirt and this stranger hid in the bathroom just outside Kyron’s class, jumped out and grabbed Kyron right when Terri left (8:45, last time he was seen) took off with him out the back door and no one saw them except one child who cannot ID the stranger. (Where was everyone else?)
I’m just trying to work out in my head, exactly what LE thinks Terri did that morning. None of it makes sense to me, none of it. Throw in TP’s account and it makes even less sense. I still cannot fathom LE NOT releasing some sort of composite or even a vague description if Kyron was seen with a stranger. I wonder if we will ever hear anything about what LE actually thinks happened when the civil trial goes forward. IMO, Desiree should be suing the school if she wants answers.
This case is so darn frustrating.
We don’t know the current sources & methods of the AMW studio.
at least 2 leaders were not educated or had prior job experience as “journalists”
to our knowledge per cv’s. a good editing studio (which SSS likely is)
can take a current clip of someone
from any news source & dub over audio from the past.
I wish I could see firsthand.
Perhaps left AMW in June 2011 like others, as
I don’t see activity after June 2011
https://sites.google.com/site/kleingregr/system/app/pages/recentChanges
Remember the AMW story the other night, and the shot of Kaine in front of those rows and rows of binders (like 90, maybe) with tips, etc.
I had the thought that maybe someone who knows people in that little neighborhood ought to start going through them to look for clues. Or someone in the family who knows all the characters, maybe like TY or DY. I personally don’t think Kaine is that street smart that he would be aware of everything going on around him. Now, blinksters, on the other hand …
I’ll bet some of you – if they let you have a go at those tips – might be able to finally bring Kyron home and catch The Bad Guys.
I wonder how many REAL clues/tips they have overlooked. At least everything is supposed to be recorded. SOMEBODY somewhere should be able to put 2 and 2 together.
By the way, almost every other person out here has a big white Ford (or other) truck, some with tinted windows, some with the double cab thing. They all pretty much look alike to me.
If TMH did NOT have the red Mustang that morning (and she didn’t), what was the red car doing zipping around Sauvie Island?
Does LE have ALL the clues, and are they waiting for one particular thing so they can pounce? Blink has a LOT of the clues, too, I think.
Wonder exactly what they are waiting for? I still hope Kyron is OK somewhere. If not, then LE doesn’t really need to wait any longer. They could pounce today or tomorrow.
On Warshington resumes in any industry:
A true fable. Once a young man parlayed Christan contacts on the Hill into an internship on a Committee there. Once in town, he segued from the Hill internship into hiring into a civil service entry level analyst job in an Executive agency.. He came to Christian sponsored groups & worked those contacts. Restless, he left for an entry level probationary year on wall street which another contact got him. Gone from there after a year (wife said he was let go), he ran a small sales office in DC for a govt contractor. Not too long after that, a year or so, he had a stint as an event organizer overseas for an int’l organization. his then wife and his Christian/professional acquaintances rolled their eyes at each new job, asking “how does he get away with it?”
For some time his resume has recast those early jobs to be Sr leadership foreign policy positions on the Hill and the Exec agency, an Ambassador, running the entire highly respected consulting Co, international financial market leadership on wall street, and so on. With that resume, he formed his own business & actually achieved senior status & wealth.
Who’s going to right the resume? Not the ex-wife who was there. would’ve harmed her childrens’ wealth creation & school opportunities. Not the Christian acquaintances who chuckled at his stories years ago; some used him too for their own projects’ success.
when I see someone write he worked directly for the Pres & VP when he had a politically lower tier job in a single govt agency, I am reminded of that Christian acquaintance of old’s resume. Very gifted verbal communication skills, claims of deep faith & spirituality, and carefully built Washington Christian “contacts,”propelled Mr X, and little does the equivalant of a hiring college or fortune 500 corpknow or care about resume accuracy, particularly when an evangelical Christian banner is lofted these days . IMOO that Mr X resume is not altogether unusual in this town.
IMO don’t believe all the scripts you see on TV unless you or Blink have verified with LE. They could be like puffed resumes.
It is fair to ask AMW (Walsh or Chiang or Oliver or Klein):
1) Who wrote this script?
2) What were the research sources?
(current interviews with anyone in addition to Kaine vs previous media sources?)
3) Was any audio from any LE source (not just video) including Gates
audio from a current in person interview in Oregon in 2012?
I personally couldn’t care less if it was indeed “our Desiree” who lived with or dated DRD for a time. So what if she at one time in her life dated a bad boy! She wasn’t the one with the long rap sheet, he was, in fact she eventually turned him into the police. My guess would be that both Desiree’s attorney and her husband, Tony, told her that if she went forward with a civil suit, all the skeletons in her closet would be revealed. IMO, she doesn’t care.
Some people say that this civil suit is more about revenge and/or of a self-serving nature. I disagree. However, that being said, Desiree believes that Terri knows something about what happened to Kyron. Her frustration level, anger, and need to find her son have to be at the boiling point right now. She is emotional and dealing LE who won’t tell her anything and Kaine, so stoic and monotone (saying things as it could take years to find out what happened to Kyron) is probably not acceptable to her.
Terri may or may not know what happened to Kyron. However, if the civil case is allowed to go forward, it may through depositions, turn over rocks; ants might scurry out. Ants that may provide bits and pieces of information, pieces of the puzzle if you will. As a mom I would happily let my skeletons go public in exchange for any information about my son if he was missing.
I sincerely hope that the civil suit doesn’t backfire on Desiree, she doesn’t need another travesty in her life. She needs hope, and the civil case gives her that if nothing else.
@T. Ruth says:
September 16, 2012 at 11:41 am
(snipped) “New fact: “Terri left the school with Kiara.”
Terri was not seen leaving the school with Kyron, just Kiara. So what does LE think happened”
———————————————————-
It’s possible Kyron disappeared moments after Terri left the school which I’ve heard was either 8:45 am or as late as 9:00 am June 4th 2010.
Another question: Has LE changed their opinion that Terri was the last person to see Kyron?
I didn’t see AMW or rather can’t get it
But we can hope someone saw the pics of Kyron and called in a tip
As I understand that is the way it works
Any effort to show Kyron to people is good
I’ve been thinking about why Desiree wouldn’t have included PPS in her civil suit. I am not an attorney so I would love to know if what I’m thinking is wrong or right and why, if anyone knows.
If Desiree had brought suit against PPS, they would lawyer up for sure (probably already are). All sorts of laws would determine what could and couldn’t be brought before the court. Legal finagling might harbor evidence. Without including PPS in the suit, I would think everyone in the school district could be deposed, not as defendants but witnesses. Wouldn’t Desiree gather MORE information this way? Afterall, it isn’t money but information Desiree desires.
Thoughts? Thanks.
Just fyi we will be covering this in part 2. I am always impressed with Atty Conner’s research and legal analysis, but on this issue, I might suggest she has outdone herself. My opinion as a non-lawyer, of course.
B
@T.Ruth and others:
Is it possible TH whispered to Kyron as she left the school building “meet me at the truck” in a couple of minutes. She would have had time to strap Kiara in her car seat and be ready to take off with both kids. I remember KH stating:
http://www.kgw.com/home/Kaine-Terri-abducted-may-have-caused-unimaginable-harm-to-Kyron-105567163.html
As of October 27, 2011
“Kaine fears daughter saw unimaginable horror”
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-unfit-105734863.html
Just reading again the emails sent Saturday June 5 2010:
(snipped)
“They are blaming me in the blogs. I just want to scream,” she wrote in one e-mail to a KATU News source the day after her stepson, Kyron Horman, was reported to be vanished from Skyline School during a science fair. Investigators say Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron.
“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic – had to been 300 people running around – no coordination …”
The reference to her daughter’s doctor visit was not mentioned again in a follow-up e-mail sent later that day:
“I didn’t just drop him off, I spent time with him, took pictures and he was in safe hands I thought as I watched him walk down the hall.
“Kids saw him after I left. Teacher put him as absent at 10am. Someplace between 9-10 is when we think it happened.
“I have a receipt showing I was checking out at Fred Meyer 7 miles away at 9:12am. I went to another FM looking for meds for Kitty they didn’t have at the first FM. Then I was trying to get Kitty to sleep in the truck for a few minutes, but no go, so off to the gym at 11:20. Out at 12:20. Home at 12:45. Kaine home at 2. Bus at 3:30. That was my day – they keep asking me. Now on my 5th interview with them …”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html
I forgot to mention this from AMW- JW asked KH if Kiara had been able to verbalize anything about that day, June 4, 2010. KH indicated “No”- I don’t have a link yet so this is all memory. I know that way back when, some of us had hoped maybe Kiara would be able to tell something, provide some clues about that day, however it appears not, at least for now.
I guess I am ready to read part 2
Mean while I got the book Imperfect Justice
By Jeff Ashton
prayers for Kyron as always
Idahogal says:
September 16, 2012 at 5:00 pm
I forgot to mention this from AMW- JW asked KH if Kiara had been able to verbalize anything about that day, June 4, 2010. KH indicated “No”- I don’t have a link yet so this is all memory. I know that way back when, some of us had hoped maybe Kiara would be able to tell something, provide some clues about that day, however it appears not, at least for now.
Me says: Idahogal, I just rewatched the piece. Kaine didn’t answer that query from JW “No.” I don’t even see him shake his head either way. He just starts saying (in regard to Kiara vocalizing about that day), “It’s always about are we looking for him, can we go looking for him after school today, we’re always looking everywhere we go…she knows where his room is…..” I can’t imagine IF that munchkin has talked about that day, Kaine or LE would give that way. For her safety and for the integrity of the investigation.
Interesting, in the intro, JW says “Kyrun/Kyrin,” then launches into the KyRON thing. At least the piece puts this little guy back in the nation’s eye, but it still seems disrespectful to me they wouldn’t get his name correct.
Kaine sounds sooo confident when he says “I believe she has answers. I believe she acted alone or with another person to get him out of the area.”
Malty, lucky you! I haven’t had a chance to get JA’s book yet, working on one by our longtime Tar Heel sports announcer for now.
from TH’s email:
“There were no men on the chaperone list.”
**
Didn’t someone post here that there was no list . . . and something like no need for a sign up with your name, no pre-arranging on who the “chaperones” were to be? Was it neighbor, maybe?
There is/was definitely a volunteer list.
B
lyla says:
September 16, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Yeah lyla that’s what I was saying in #2, why would LE think she did that, and then of all things pulled around to the FRONT, most exposed part of the school, where traffic was coming and going by that morning? If one wanted to secret away a kid, wouldn’t one go out the back? None of this makes any sense to me. I would sincerely like LE, or Kaine or Desiree or Tony to come forward and say this is how we think she did it. None of them have, in fact, none of them have even given us a reason as to why she would in the first place. What does Desiree think Terri did? One of Kaine’s most recent comments, was something like either Terri did this, or Terri did that or something else happened that AFTERNOON????? (I’d have to go look for it, but it was just more mumble jumble. Huh? I thought no one saw Kyron after 8:45 a.m. June 4, 2010.) WTH is Kaine talking about? Sorry, I’m ranting, I was so looking forward to something new from LE.
If you wanted to *off* a child, would you take him to school first? If you wanted to secret away a child for custody purposes, would you take him to school first? If you wanted to protect a child, from someone would you take him to school first?
IDK, but my answer to all of these questions is no. JMO, but something happened at that school that was not planned by Terri. Someone out to get Terri, quite possible, but not planned by her.
If you wanted to off or kidnap a child, would you do so in the presence of his baby sister? Would you run errands and speak to associates, have a kaffe, hit the gym, head home and upload your day? To Date, I have never been able to come up with a reasonable motive that matched the execution of this alleged crime. Not with TH at the helm.
The civil suit will demand just what you are asking for- a jury is not going to piece a heinous crime together like they are writing a screenplay in drama class.
B
“There is/was definitely a volunteer list.”
B
Thanks, Blink.
I still recall, though, someone did post as to the casual nature of the assigning of the “guides” – - kind of like whoever was around at the time – - per their own observations and/or experience that morning.
Blink, when and where did TH “have a kaffe”?
Thank you.
Starbucks
B
22. T. Ruth says:
September 16, 2012 at 7:26 pm
lyla says:
September 16, 2012 at 3:56 pm
*************************************
AMEN!
I’m going to TRY, to word this carefully, (see how it goes)
Just because TH was the LAST person to SEE Kyron, DOES NOT, mean she was the person who disappeared him.
What if, DY is barking up the wrong tree so to speak? Maybe, she wouldn’t have filed a lawsuit if she was given a SZ description , MAYBE, she should be barking at the powers that be? But, MAYBE she nor KH have been given correct information for fear of embarrasement or a different type of lawsuit? JMO
“Starbucks”
B
Thanks again, Blink.
Okay. So when the barista of whichever Starbucks told the media outside the courthouse she never saw TH at all that morning, that could mean:
a. the barista didn’t notice that TH was indeed there
b. the barista that spoke out was from a different Starbucks, not the one TH actually visited
c. the barista for whatever reason didn’t give the media accurate information, but did to the Grand Jury
d. the media misinterpreted the barista
e. other
________
Blink and T.Ruth,
What about a plan to set-up the school, with the expectation of hubby suing the school and further expectation of sharing in the lawsuit monies whether married or through divorce/assets . . . with the child alive, but well hidden.
I think that might have been an announcer narrating the story who mis-pronounced Kyron’s name. Whenever JW was on camera, he pronounced it correctly.
I just hope they get some tips. Noticed in today’s Sunday Oregonian, they did a story on the Trejo guy they are looking for, but didn’t even mention Kyron.
@Tar Heel Gal says:September 16, 2012 at 7:10 pm
Interesting, in the intro, JW says “Kyrun/Kyrin,” then launches into the KyRON thing.
@ T. Ruth says:
September 16, 2012 at 7:26 pm
@ lyla says:
September 16, 2012 at 3:56 pm
AND BLINK:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RE: (snipped):
“If you wanted to *off* a child, would you take him to school first? If you wanted to secret away a child for custody purposes, would you take him to school first? If you wanted to protect a child, from someone would you take him to school first?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
It quite simply…..MAKES NO SENSE!
@T.Ruth
(snipped)
“3. Terri met someone else at the school, pointed out her stepson, the one in the CSI t-shirt and this stranger hid in the bathroom just outside Kyron’s class, jumped out and grabbed Kyron right when Terri left (8:45, last time he was seen) took off with him out the back door and no one saw them except one child who cannot ID the stranger. (Where was everyone else?)”
——————————————————————
or Terri conspired with someone to have Kyron removed from the school, left no paper trail, no email trail, no cell phone trail, no computer trail, she has documented receipts of her whereabouts, in other words it’s what I think LE “believes” happened to Kyron with no physical evidence to prove it. jmo
Two thoughts-
1) to the PP mentioning the teenage boy theory. Personally I don’t find it feasible. IMO a teenager isn’t going to have the intelligence to commit a crime to this level where he literally has vanished without a trace.
2) Im not trying to downplay the comments about Kiara was 18/ months old at the time. Although they are smart and are really starting to communicate at that age I don’t think an 18 month old can give any clues about what they did that day. My son is 15 months old and I know he couldn’t. They have such short attention spans that it wouldn’t stick with her.
I find it hard to believe some one would ruin a child’s big day
At school when they could have done something anytime
To look like an accident if they were planning
some plan to disapear a child
Why whisper meet me later when you have the whole ride to school
To talk about it
To much why. No answers
Why not take your own sweet child and disappear
Dump the whole situation
@TRuth. If I wanted to remove a child I was tired of in my home (how psychotic is that?),
the only way would be to lose him permanently to an accomplice in a crowd such as the Sci Fr
at a time when I could create an alibi. But, I think there’s a SZ associated with RS or other Family system association, or a SZ random.
Maybe saying Kyron wrong and Beaverton
Were part of some plan to punch someone’s buttons
Another poster pointed out, and I think rightly,
BKH Foundation is incorporated in Beaverton.
A sloppy researcher might’ve just copied that.
I don’t think it has a big meaning,
First let me state for the record I do not know what happened to Kyron and who may or may not be involved.
All I am offering is a different perspective I am not claiming it to be correct.
T Ruth you wrote in part:
something happened at that school that was not planned by Terri. Someone out to get Terri, quite possible, but not planned by her.
–Hi I think you could be right- about someone wanting to get to Terri having done this-
But at the same time I think noone can rule out that this person was acting on possible once directives of Terri-
Let me try to explain. Lets say for a moment she was conspiring with someone at some point to hurt Kaine – this time not in a for hire murder but by taking his boy…. and lets say it was only in the initial stages and Terri thought better of it and got cold feet then backed out cutting the conspirator off- The conspirator feels scorne and the person with whom she once conspired took it upon themselves to move forward with the plan – now seeing the motivation as a way of “getting” Terri….
—The only reason a scenario like this is feasible is because Terri is said to have conspired in a murder for hire plot against her husband Kaine the father of her child and of Kyron-
If she is capable of wanting him dead so much so that she brings in an outsider, capable of taking another persons life for money… than isnt she capable of conspiring with an outsider to hurt kaine in other ways too?
Honestly I wish someone could debunk once and for all the murder for Hire plot- for the only reason I can see( if Terri is totally innocent of what happened to Kyron)that Terri wouldnt want to fight for custody or speak out- is if she had something to hide IRT the Kaine murder plot…
In other words if she is innocent of the plot than I would have less trouble believing she may have at one time conspired with a bad person IRT little Kryon…
Blink you wrote in part:
If you wanted to off or kidnap a child, would you do so in the presence of his baby sister? Would you run errands and speak to associates, have a kaffe, hit the gym, head home and upload your day? To Date, I have never been able to come up with a reasonable motive that matched the execution of this alleged crime. Not with TH at the helm.
—
Dearest Blink perhaps what happened ultimately was an accident that snowballed out of control….where have we heard that phrase before? I know from the Caylee case- where a child “disappeared” and the “loving” mother went about her bella vita THAT day- that morning, that night, that month- blissfully spreading lies about the whereabouts, the welfare and the wellbeing of her child who hadnt disappeared but was instead long Dead- supposedly killed while another family member was home….
She went on with her new life whicht included shopping sprees and movie rentals and beer runs and bed-ins… all while that child lay rotting in the trunk of her car- the very same car which she and her sweetie went to blockbuster to rent gruesome movies the very same car that held that childs baby doll “mamma” and her carseat….
all seemingly without a motive she went about playing her new role to the hilt come hell or high water both of which little caylee endured Hell and high water….and Casey ultimately cameout on top stepping over many innocents along the way… and she beat the law Why? because she first went about her day= that day =Cayless death day blissfully acting like nothing was wrong thereby establishing reasonable doubt to her culpability in the death of her child…so you asked:
“If you wanted to off or kidnap a child, would you do so in the presence of his baby sister? Would you run errands and speak to associates, have a kaffe, hit the gym, head home and upload your day?”
I wouldnt – you wouldnt- we wouldnt….But Who would behave like this? IMO a murderer would.
AJMO
Peace
I agree it is possible, and I am firm in my belief that a motive is defined by me as any reason a person decides to perpetrate an act- whether their actually is one or not.
Until such time as a stranger opportunistic offender can be excluded, that theory holds the same weight for me because it absolutely happens and I do not believe it possible for TH to directly plan and execute the “vanishing” of a 7 year old boy from his school without a shred of evidence of any kind pointing to her or an accomplice attached to her.
Complex cases and crimes are 100% matched to the complexity of the offender.
For me, this woman is anything but complex. Just like C word- and under a mountain of evidence I just heard Jeff Ashton say the other day the one thing he wanted to know from jurors was whether or not they believed she was in the trunk.
THUD.
B
MOO, but I don’t think TMH is smart enough or cunning enough to make an elaborate plot. I think she and/or KH were probably doing something they shouldn’t (courier for pills or drugs from Oregon, north to south?). Maybe they wanted to stop and were both threatened, but ignored threats by SZ and cronies and lost Kyron as a result. In that case, maybe some of the gym connections would be involved?
Also, regarding the AMW references to Beaverton, Beaverton is actually the closest to Skyline, in a direct line south. Hillsboro is farther west. Naming Beaverton just kind of lumps all of the nearby locations together without a lot of explaining.
I really think SZ is actually “Somebody-SkylineFolks-Know” Zero. Someone at Skyline probably knows exactly who it is.
@Rose says:September 16, 2012 at 10:26 pm
@TRuth. If I wanted to remove a child I was tired of in my home (how psychotic is that?), the only way would be to lose him permanently to an accomplice in a crowd such as the Sci Fr at a time when I could create an alibi. But, I think there’s a SZ associated with RS or other Family system association, or a SZ random.
and
@Malty says:September 16, 2012 at 10:35 pm
Maybe saying Kyron wrong and Beaverton Were part of some plan to punch someone’s buttons
I agree….. I mean he said Kyron wrong so many times… Why? Why wasn’t he corrected?
Malty says: September 16, 2012 at 10:35 pm
=====
I thought that myself, Malty… wishful thinking.
=====
“Maybe saying Kyron wrong and Beaverton
Were part of some plan to punch someone’s buttons”
“There is/was definitely a volunteer list.”
B
================
Blink, do you know if there were any men on it? Thx
Yes.
B
Sometimes I’m on the fence, sometimes I’m jumping back and forth to either side of the fence. I understand the many arguments about it seeming unrealistic that Terri was behind Kyron’s disappearance. Totally! But..
I also cannot believe that the woman would go two years without seeing her beautiful baby girl if she truly didn’t know anything. Above all, this seems to be the most unrealistic scenario of all IMO.
People keep saying that they can’t believe an innocent Terri would remain silent and lose her baby if she truly didn’t know anything about Kyron’s disapperance. But what if Terri has already told LE eveything she knows and they simply do not believe her. DY pointed an accusatory finger st her immediately upon learning of Kyron’s disappearance….”she” better have not hurt “MY” son!I’d bet anything that she conveyed that message to LE…and set the tone of Terri’s questioning and perhaps even the polygraphs.
Terri’s lawyer very wisely recognized that she is in LE’s crosshairs. Imho, Le fumbled badly in this case at the very beginning. It seems to me that they allowed the investigation to proceed based almost entirely upon troubled familial relations. They operated almost like a cliche filled movie plot….evil step mother vs beautiful bioMama married to a fellow LEO…a MFH plot….affair with a random landscaper…failed sting….sexting…
Who knows what questions Terri “failed” during her polys. Did they have to do anything whatsoever with Kyron’s disappearance? Remember, she is the one who told people that LE said she “failed”. I think, LE tried to pressure her into revealing something that she does not know and THEY failed. Rather than admitting to that, they have remained silent about everything and poor Kyron remains missing.
I don’t know what people expect Terri to do to prove her innocence. Her lawyer is right…she stands to gain nothing by appealing to public sentiments. If she has already told LE every thing she knows about that day and they simply don’t have another “unsub” that fits their preconcieved profile, what possibly can she say?
My personal opinion is that the answer to Kyron’s disappearance is (or was) in Skyline School. Someone took that little boy and has completely befuddlfed the investigators from the getgo.
I just pray that this poor kid is found.
Just to jump in, I believe that TH is no mastermind in the disappearance of Kyron. I strongly believe it is someone with connections to the school – teacher or family-of, supplier, outsourced workers, or ex-student, neighbor – it’s too coincidental that the abduction occurred on a day of utter chaos at that school. Too many people in and out and no one yet has defined what the “cool one” was. Did any of the other children mention this specific aspect of the case?
Good Morning.
Blink,
Do you know any part of the actual contents of the “hate emails”?
Thank you.
thank you for opining on the perp possibility to be excluded as well as on the complexity of the crime vs the lack of complexity of TMH’s apparent thought processes as revealed by her email, FB & behaviors (like those marriages). .
can you do the same for the mfh?
meaning, is there any evidence other than RS’ unpolygraphed word or
any evidence (texts?) corroborating his word? (not rhetorical)
I would have to know what RS side is to answer that question with integrity.
B
correction to self: all those lack of tmh complexity examples are mine only.
@wpg
I can’t say I believe those emails have ever been authenticated.
I wish I knew why Kaine holds so firmly to the belief that TMH had some part in the disappearance of KY. There was a time when I felt that he was waivering on that, but his most recent statements put her back on his suspect list without question. What could it be that makes him believe? I myself go back and forth, but his belief is the thing that is keeping her on my suspect list.
Maybe the fact that a judge may feel when dividing property, that TH is not entitled to profit from any crime.
Here is why I have significant trouble finding Kaine credible in this regard:
1. He has assets at issue, and a substantial interest in the divorce outcome.
2. He says there are new tips and new information, yet in his most recent interview, he clearly has no idea what happened or where Kyron is, but is adamant he believes he is alive.
3. Investigators have been adamant with him that she is.
I truly believe there is the perception that if not Terri then who? ( very perceptive and compelling comment by Det Young).
Going to say again, the FBI should be leading this case.
B
Cindy, you mention the “cool one” related to the projects. I’ve been thinking about that lately as well.
Found where one 7th grade boy, TK, had a project on antimatter.. Could that be the “cool electric one”?
http://tinyurl.com/8wfpsl4
Looks cool to me…
Source of above re:TK
http://missingchildren.wikia.com/wiki/Kyron_Horman
Sometime between 8am and 9am Skyline seventh-grader T.K., whose science fair porject was on antimatter…
TY. I understand. You’re right, it is unreasonable to conclude anything from second hand allegations of a mfh solicitarion, or neighborhood police activity during a sting, or what texting we’ve been led to believe may corroborate a mdh allegation, without hearing Rudy’s account directly.
This just made me realize, no media or statements exist from RS whatsoever.
I guess he’s only spoken to the grand jury.
January says:
September 17, 2012 at 2:56 am
“There is/was definitely a volunteer list.”
B
================
Blink, do you know if there were any men on it? Thx
Yes.
B
***************
Terri specifically said there were no men on the list, so either she lied about that or she never saw the list and someone simply told her there were no male chaperones on the list. Hmmmm. I’d still like to know who told her he was seen with a man and two little girls in the first place. Or did she make that up? She also goes further in her emails and says “kids” saw him after I left. Not just one kid, but multiple kids.
If she last saw Kyron @8:45 on his way to his classroom and she actually physically drove away from the school at 9:00, then some kids saw Kyron after 8:45, and yet, LE says no one saw Kyron after 8:45.
Uggggh, this case, why can’t they just put out something besides factoids.
wpg says:
September 16, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Blink and T.Ruth,
What about a plan to set-up the school, with the expectation of hubby suing the school and further expectation of sharing in the lawsuit monies whether married or through divorce/assets . . . with the child alive, but well hidden.
*************
When Larry Moulton was quoted as saying a 50/50 chance of Terri being arrested, I also thought of something along those lines. Kaine Horman being the other half of the balloon boy disappearance scheme. Would explain the stang running around on SI handing off Kyron to someone. Would explain KH raising all this money, he’d need for his defense if caught. But, now two plus years later, I don’t think Kaine Horman has a clue where his son is, or who took him. JMO