Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
Related Posts
Related Posts:
2,458 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
My LE/DA sources tell me they know where RS is and that he is a very credible witness. That’s all I got.
@Lauren says:
October 5, 2012 at 3:25 am
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-oregon-boys-uncle-arrested-unrelated-charge/t/story?id=10955255
“Remember this?
Family statement read at press conference saying Kyron would be missing Father’s Day 2010, three days BEFORE Father’s Day.
The certainty in their statement still bothers me. How did they know he would not be found before that date? There was a reason they said that…. What is the reason?
Jmo”
———————————————————-
I watched this PC and as I recall Kaine made the statement. I thought it was odd. But, if Kaine was informed by LE that it’s possible Kyron could be a victim of human trafficking, then I understand where Kaine could be coming from. Desiree is fighting for closure, Kaine possibly in denial. moo
It occurred to me that some people may not be familiar with the national tests I mentioned in regard to teaching careers. If I needed a boost to be more competitive in the job market, I’d consider doing this. It is in addition to a state license and includes a generalist category which covers early childhood and elementary, as well as specific specialties.
What Is National Board Certification?
National Board Certification is an advanced teaching credential. It complements, but does not replace, a state’s teacher license. It is valid for 10 years, and renewal candidates must begin the renewal process during their eighth or ninth years as NBCTs.
National Board Certification is achieved upon successful completion of a voluntary assessment program designed to recognize effective and accomplished teachers who meet high standards based on what teachers should know and be able to do. National Board Certification is available nationwide for most preK–12 teachers.
As part of the certification process, candidates complete 10 assessments that are reviewed by trained teachers in their certificate areas. The assessments include four portfolio entries that feature teaching practice and six constructed response exercises that assess content knowledge.
http://www.nbpts.org/become_a_candidate/what_is_national_board_c
@CC. Can you ask your LE sources if he had a polygraph? That question is the watershed.
(I always assumed they know where he is as he is tgeir ne plus ultra of prosecution. W/out him, zip.)
On a lighter note?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ0DAil5ArI
Message to you Rudy
@Venetia. Do I read rightly that in your opinion Neighbor & KH could be friends linked by Intel employment, with KH as one local info source? I could be all wrong.
Also, Neighbor said she was at the school “every day,” but does not differentiate whether every day was pre- or post- abduction ( just like odd duck observation). If it was “pre,” who stopped in “every day” among parents? except Kim Holm maybe. I’m sure Blink knows. Kudos for preserving blog base privacy.
jmho, I take Neighbor’s “odd duck” comment, excerpted below from beejay’s bringing it over from SM (thank you!) as meaning the whole dang community had opened themselves to questioning by LE to try and help find Kyron, but TH had not, making her “the odd man out” in other words. Not that she personally knew enough about TH/Hormans to say something about her (manner/personality) was “odd.” Does that make sense?
Ms. Blink, thinking of you and yours daily with regards to your mom. It’s been 10 months since my daddy died suddenly, one day at a time. Hugs from NC
——————–
26. Venetia says:
October 4, 2012 at 9:18 am
Rose,
I’m confused. You state in your post to Panda that:
“But Neighbor also made clear she didn’t know the Hormans and wouldn’t have known or recognized Terri if she saw her at school.
Therefore, I’d put even the PPS comment (which omits what job, what school, was it wired, etc) solidly in the random very distant rumor column.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But the SM link posted by Beejay has a reference to Neighbor stating that TH is an “odd duck”.
How can someone come to that conclusion without knowing a person?
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8661.235;wap2
The one called “Neighbor” claims to know Hormans…Neighbor referred to TH as an “odd duck”. Not sure what that means and they have not claimed a side either way. Just what I’ve read there.
————————
FROM THE LINK ABOVE:
neighbor says:
September 30, 2010 at 8:11 pm
@Satori “I have NOT made up my mind about Terri’s character, etc. I am OPEN. I am also clueless and OPEN about all other characters involved.”
The last day I saw the Hormans was on Jun/3. I am open to new *facts*. Let me tell you this: Like hundreds of other neighbors, I have agreed to multiple searches of my house, outbuildings and property. Do not take this lightly. We respect our privacy here. Like many others that were at the school that morning, I have spent many hours talking to LE about the sequence of events that morning. Everybody that I know has gone out of their way to help LE solve this crime. That is except one odd duck: Ky’s own stepmother.
@foosbros. TY for recap of Skylineparent.
Reading all at once, imo this pta member
(and cliques & factions run in every pta)
both disliked & was contemptuous of TMH
well predating the abduction, deserved or not.
T.Ruth, I think it is very possible that Kyron knew, or was witness to, something James didn’t. After a certain point, James was not at home full time. James didn’t see everything that Kyron saw; he wasn’t with TH all the times that Kyron was. Would LE know any possible illegal activities on TH’s part by now? Not necessarily. I think it’s possible that’s why she clammed up and did not pursue seeing her daughter; so that they wouldn’t know. I do think she was doing something “wrong” or illegal. I could be very wrong. All just my speculation!
**********************************************************
T. Ruth says:
October 4, 2012 at 12:21 pm
@Panda,
So you are thinking Terri felt she had to get rid of Kyron because he knew something that he might tell and would cause her to be arrested for some nefarious behavior? Do you think that it was something that ONLY Kyron knew? IOW, James didn’t know? I’m curious as to what you might think a little 7 year old boy would know, that a 15 year old (I think, at the time) James would not figure out on his own. James was just deposed and Terri Horman is still not in jail, so I’m just wondering.
Just me, I guess, but if Terri had been engaging in some sort of illegal activities, at least one of those LE agencies would know that by now and her butt would be in jail. JMO
I wondered how I could infer an Intel employee (maybe it was wife?) could be on site at Skyline “every day”.
Don’t think it likely, but Intel incentivizes employees volunteering in public schools by $ grants, starting with a 20 hr minimum: http://sunset.katu.com/m/news/community-spirit/482966-hillsboro-schools-receive-over-120000-intel-corporation#bmb=1
About neighbor
I had questions about this poster
She came on like she had lots of info
Suddenly couldn’t post because LE
them to be quiet
(As I remember)
Is this poster still around by another name
I just don’t really believe every word posted by her
It should say LE told them to be quiet
I wonder about that
Do people still say “odd duck”
I haven’t heard that since I was a kid at grandma’s house
Rose – you read me right
T. Ruth says:
October 4, 2012 at 12:21 pm
@Panda,
So you are thinking Terri felt she had to get rid of Kyron because he knew something that he might tell and would cause her to be arrested for some nefarious behavior? Do you think that it was something that ONLY Kyron knew? IOW, James didn’t know? I’m curious as to what you might think a little 7 year old boy would know, that a 15 year old (I think, at the time) James would not figure out on his own. James was just deposed and Terri Horman is still not in jail, so I’m just wondering.
Just me, I guess, but if Terri had been engaging in some sort of illegal activities, at least one of those LE agencies would know that by now and her butt would be in jail. JMO
————
@T.Ruth – I agree. Perhaps that’s why James was sent to live somewhere else in February, to ensure that he would not know what was going on?
***********
Concerned Citizen says:
October 5, 2012 at 10:24 am
My LE/DA sources tell me they know where RS is and that he is a very credible witness. That’s all I got.
——-
@Concerned Citizen – thanks for that…good to hear.
erose says:
October 4, 2012 at 12:16 am
Speaking on the condition of anonymity, a close family friend who has since been interviewed by the FBI, has confirmed that Terri Horman is pointing her finger directly at Sanchez. She has also stated that she and Sanchez had an altercation after she attempted to end their relationship in May which ended in a 911 call and a visit from Clackamas County Sheriff Office in the presence of Sanchez’s wife and children. While it did not result in any charges, Horman told the source that the landscaper was furious with her because he is not in the US legally. While blinkoncrime.com has not been able to verify the date of the alleged 911 call, we have been able to verify that Terri called her Mother immediately following the incident and told her that Kaine had found out about the landscaper she hired to do what she referred to as “her yardwork” and when she informed him that she could no longer use him because Kaine was making her fire him, he lunged at her with Kiara in her arms. Kaine Horman denies the couple ever hired the landscaper as well as any previous information as to his estranged wife’s possible dealings with Sanchez.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/09/09/kyron-horman-missing-case-review-and-birthday-wishes-to-the-frog-prince/comment-page-16/#comment-1623541
****
Blink,
The above article snippet doesn’t say Mother’s Day for the alleged TH/RS incident.
Could you remind me . . . did you bring Mother’s Day in through your comments at a later time or how did Mother’s Day 2010 come into the discussion here?
Thank you.
I think it is only logical that the 3 parents would suspect Terri; she came into their lives leading a secret life. A secret life w/Kaine while Desiree was pregnant w/Kyron. I also believe that LE/Kaine bought into RS’s MFH allegation at the time Kaine asked for the RO and divorce. BUT, I think they discovered Terri was not the mastermind of Kyrons disappearance somewhere between Kaine & Kiara leaving the home and the whoops we forgot about the house and Terri is forced out. How does a once divorced Father and his well respected Attorney, forget to ask for the home? IMO, only when you believe that the person who is living in it holds the key to where your child is. Yes, it would kill you to let them live in the house, but if a person is going to screw up, they will do so in familiar territory. Not hours away under her parent’s roof and watchful eyes. Far away from everyone she might have been involved with in the disappearance of Kyron. Far away from the scene of the crime, it never made sense.
As far as RS, I think he was blindsided too. I do believe Terri & RS were up to no good, but plotting to have Kyron abducted from Skyline was not part of it. MOO
shopping around I found this (2003) re Skyline tech:
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools-c/pages/skyline/site/ibm.pdf
references Kevin Crochett as principal (while Keefer was Asst Prin).
Crochett had a stellar background, but it was his first Admin job. See “Skyline School News”; he acceded 2002. http://srnpdx.org/sites/default/files/RR1002.pdf
He seems to have lateraled awhile ago to Forest Park El Ed to Make Way for Ben is my inference, where he continued his cyber focus & expertise for students.
Interesting the 2003 grant proposal terms Susan Hall the Instructional Asst go to. That fits with this year’s principal’s Newsletter’s column saying Hall was assisting on classroom assignments. A mere Secretary in Front Office she is not, therefore. The question is whether Instructional Assistance on a Science Fair/Talent Show day kept her so busy that she did not follow, or ensure teachers followed, PPS policies on Attendance reporting.
For those who were wondering:
http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/oct/04/remains-man-missing-1980-found-skamania-county/
Human remains found Sept. 23 in western Skamania County have been identified as those belonging to a man missing since 1980, according to a bulletin from the Skamania County Sheriff’s Office.
Kenneth P. Stovner, 39, was reported missing in mid-April of 1980 from his house on Belle Center Road in Washougal, according to the bulletin. Detectives thoroughly searched the area around his house but found no clues about Stover’s whereabouts at the time.
________________________________________________________
Cause of death not yet known
personally, I think this crime inside a school
may come back to PPS, and a lack of attention
to that possibility, surrendering the jurisdiction PPB
owned to mcso, will haunt PPB & PPS down the road.
I guess they didn’t look very hard for Mr. Stovner, his body was a half mile from his house.
@January says:
October 5, 2012 at 9:30 am
That’s what I’ve always thought. RS is owner of business, i.e., the employer of Terri (& Kaine) Horman’s landscaper. DAD? But that’s JMO.
***************
@Concerned Citizen says:
October 5, 2012 at 10:24 am
“My LE/DA sources tell me they know where RS is and that he is a very credible witness. That’s all I got.”
*******
Key question, if RS is a “very credible witness”, what is he witness to?
The alleged MFH did not take place, not even an attempt, so he didn’t witness that. Could be he is only witness to hearing Terri wishing her husband was dead and she’d give a million bucks, plus bonuses, if someone would take him out. (BTW, why would she say that in the first place?)
LE needs proof, not just some story from a landscaper, no matter how credible he/she may be. Upfront payment money, contract, corroborating witness(s), something. There isn’t any proof, or she’d already be in jail.
LE set up a sting in hope to gain proof, where a wired landscaper approached Terri for money to *keep quiet* or he’d tell LE *everything*. Firstly, Terri already knew she was under suspicion, after weeks of hours and hours of questioning, and 3 ldt’s in which she was *told* by LE she failed. So, even if she was guilty of the MFH she told him to bug off and paid him no *hush money* at the door and instead called 911 to tell LE she was being threatened by some former landscaper.
And here’s what I really don’t get, according to Blink, Terri in one or more of those hours of questioning sessions pointed the finger toward the landscaper. Why would anyone point the finger at someone who could implicate them for a MFH scheme? IDK, but this has never has made any sense to me.
So my question is, why did Terri Horman point the finger at this landscaper in the first place? Had this dude threatened her with something in the past? If so, and there was no MFH, what was the threat about? I may be wrong, but I think Terri Horman’s pointing the finger at the landscaper, was her answer to “Do you have any enemies or know someone who may want to hurt you or your stepson?” And the landscaper was her answer, but why?
After being approached by LE, Mr. landscaper then said to himself, *OMG she’s pointing the finger at me in a possible kidnapping? Well, I’ll fix her, I’ll just tell them about the time she told she wanted me to kill her husband.* Did LE maybe offer this guy some kind of plea bargain for some other issue he had pending, deportation, drugs? AMOO
Do I think Terri Horman wished her husband was dead? Maybe, who knows?, but I don’t believe there was ever a planned MFH. LE blew it there, they did not have any evidence and the sting provided none, in fact, for all we know, the sting may have resulted in contrary evidence. (Perhaps that’s why they won’t give the 911 calls to Houze?) Meanwhile prior to the sting, LE told Kaine, who wanted a divorce anyway, all about this allged MFH, and he wasted zero time high tailing it to the courthouse and used it in his divorce documents as reasons for the RO. She of course, has no idea he’s out doing this and gives a big *thumbs up* to the reporters.
When Terri realizes what just happened, she hires an attorney because she now knows for certain that if LE believed RS, they did not believe what ever she told them about RS/landscaper dude, and after 3 ldt’s and hours upon hours of questioning they don’t believe her about her June 4 activities either. They didn’t believe anything she was telling them. Her husband didn’t believe her either and flew the coop. What else was she to do? Smartest move in my opinion, get a good attorney.
Who knows, maybe she was lying through her teeth, but there is no evidence to prove it, at least not that we’ve seen.
I wonder where this case would be if the rest of the family had just kept their mouths shut like Terri has. If we just heard their pleas to whomever took Kyron to please just let him go. Kaine constantly saying we want to keep the focus on Kyron and yet he, along with Desiree & Tony were the one who kept making sure the focus was on Terri. (I should say *keeps* making sure, as seen in the latest AMW episode where he and Walsh say all signs point to the step mother.)
What a can of worms this whole thing is. More and more in this case, I think both PPS and LE are both in huge CYA mode for making huge mistakes, and I hope Desiree’s civil case will somehow bust things wide open putting a stop to this carousel and get people back to looking for a little boy.
Frustrated, I am.
Ditto. He is a 7 year old child.
B
re: probable cause
fwiw, from KH’s October 2010 court filing:
“Law enforcement officials have informed me that that more than one circuit court judge has determined probable cause exists to implicate Respondent in Kyron’s disappearance and in the murder for hire plot. Respondent and her lawyers are also aware of this.”
pdf of court filing found with article published October 25, 2010
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_calls_his_estrang.html
ok, I admit my ability to spew facts at will in every case gets harder the more I cover and the longer they drag on, but after re-reading wpg’s link to that motion, it states that TH failed the first poly, told everyone, walked out in the middle of the second (no reason given) and failed the third.
Here’s the thing- this woman fails a poly and is told so. She is the immediate defacto suspect, no question, again, very clear in this filing.
She GOES BACK and agrees to a second, and walks out at some point, I was told it was in the pre-interview, never getting to the questions, and it involved discussion of RS. This certainly makes sense as we move to door #3.
So with knowledge now that RS has spoken with LE, or that LE told her they knew about whatever the relationship was, she agrees again to take a THIRD polygraph. Frankly, I am not understanding how anyone could say she was not attempting to cooperate between 3 polly’s and as I understand it 6 different several hours long interviews and a cop at the house.
Important Note: So LE approaches Kaine with enough advance notice to get him out of the house while she is taking the third test (he says she fails). So in advance of the test #3 the sting is already in motion. That means that the content of that pre interview and test had to be specific to the mfh or did not include any discussion of it because if it had and let’s suppose she passed any portion of referenced questions- what were they going to do, call it off when Kaine and LE were clearing out the house simultaneously?
So I will bite- what proof was offered to Kaine regarding the mfh plot when he expressly stated that he did not even know they had a landscaper and had a John Deer and attachments sitting in the backyard and his wife had a FB full of pics as the blackberry bushes were cleared each time.
Re-reading this with the recall that when Kaine was asked if he ever wore a wire for his conversations with TH and his reply he should probably not answer that, you have to ask yourself- was this occurring when he was questioning TH about her potential involvements or whereabouts and she is not answering or denying his possible query? Of course it was. She knew the house was bugged, was this where such a conversation took place and she knew it?
Let me tell you why this is a substantive problem for Kaine. He allowed himself to become an agent for more than one LEA. LE put him in a position to potentially surreptitiously investigate, and therefore would be a witness subject to deposition as defacto MCSO or DEA/FBI agent acting on their behalf when the supreme court already recognizes that a spouse cannot be compelled to testify against the other except in limited circumstances. This would likely quality, not my point really.
My point is that in the civil suit, and ultimately if there is ever a criminal prosecution of ANYONE, Kaine will be subject to disclosure to every single thing he was told, witnessed, asked, acted on, etc as an agent to LE. And TH team will exploit that to the nth- make no mistake.
Lastly- if TH through counsel does not come out swinging in response to this suit if it is to proceed, she is an idiot who does not know enough to reach out for a tree branch before she hits the ground on her 2 year fall.
B
T. Ruth says:
October 5, 2012 at 6:42 pm
Right on! I agree with your scenario … I will add that Kaine took advantage of the MFH to file for divorce in the hope that custody and other issues would be avoided and a divorce granted.
Out here you can actually be that close to your home and not be found. There is a LOT of underbrush, especially in forested areas, which is almost everywhere on this side of the Cascade Mountains. It’s probably even worse up in Forest Park and along Skyline Drive. A few years ago a father and his daughter were living in a shelter in Forest Park, had been for years – he was home schooling her – and somebody or other found them and made them get back into society.
So if anybody is lost anywhere along Skyline Drive, it will be pure luck if they ever get found.
@bumble says:October 5, 2012 at 6:10 pm
I guess they didn’t look very hard for Mr. Stovner, his body was a half mile from his house.
skimming all those June-July 2010 posts was interesting.
Lots of posters’ names stood out, ie Sean Cruz.
Blink has never wavered on her take.
Sorry, can’t remember which thread but early on Valhall posted a couple times.
Said she felt an “immense darkness” to this case.
How do we know what Terri was “breaking off” in May was an affair, intimate sexting, or his employment?
Is there objective evidence rather than rumor there?
as far as I can tell the press’ anonymous sources
were Kaine or Desiree.
Valhall’s comment was on this thread June 13
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/13/kyron-horman-missing-day-9-portland-search-update/
Rose, thank you for the throw back review. It is very interesting to me on occasion to read my own early words in the case. Enhancing my education this past Spring/Summer in the area of sexually motivated offenders , homicide, crime scene analysis and the spectrums within, has only served to cement my belief that this offender and offense cannot be excluded as a crime of opportunity.
B
dang if Blink’s Day 9 article didn’t say several sets of parents weren’t interviewed,
that they stopped at a certain point.
The worst investigation ever imo.
You have a lot more than I, as I am only have speculation. So their thinking has not changed. I would be interested in any details on this mysterious person, if you are at liberty, but I am guessing you are not, and I understand. Thank you for what you did share.
Concerned Citizen says:
October 5, 2012 at 10:24 am
My LE/DA sources tell me they know where RS is and that he is a very credible witness. That’s all I got.
As to TMH being turned down for a teaching job by PPS or any other district.
TMH applied for renewal of her teaching license in late 2009, or early 2010 and received said license approval effective 2/23/2010, expiring 3 years later on 3/14/2013, her birthday anniversary.
IIRC, the last time she renewed her license previously was 5/4/2004 with a probable expiration of date of 3/14/2007. Her current public Oregon Teacher Standards and Practices License Information record only displays her current license information, but it does show her last educational employer was Mooberry Elementary School (2002-2003), part of the Hillsboro School District.
Link to educator lookup.
http://www.tspc.state.or.us/LDisplay.asp
I would think TMH would not be applying for a job as a teacher anywhere if she did not have a current license, so would not have been turned down for a job between 3/14/2007 and 2/23/2010.
It would be interesting to know why she applied for renewal in 2010. Did she want to apply for a full time teaching job for the 2010-2011 school year? Was she planning to start substituting again? Was it because she wanted to teach again? And/or was KH pressuring her to bring in more money?
As far as applying to Skyline and being turned down after her 2/23/2010 renewal and 6/4/2010, I doubt Keefer would have been telling her she wouldn’t get a job there for 2010-2011 until at least late August 2010. Often, it is not until then a school knows for sure who is not returning for the upcoming school year.
TMH, currently listed license info:
02/23/2010-03/14/2013 – Active – Basic Teaching
Ms. Porter’s license info:
04/08/2012-04/07/2015 – Active – Initial II Teaching
12/28/2005-04/07/2009 – Expired – Initial I Teaching
03/14/2003-04/07/2006 – Expired – Substitute Teaching
03/10/2000-03/10/2003 – Expired – Transitional Teaching
It appears Ms. Porter was on Skyline’s staff for the 2008-2009 so she must have had some kind of status with the TSPC, but it is not currently listed.
Search for Porter in the following document.
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/sunnyside/files/school-sunnyside/Parent_Handbook_2008-Final.pdf
Interestingly, in the 2008 handbook above Ms. Porter is listed as a 2/3 teacher while in the next link (shared with use by @Rose), she is listed as a 4/5.
http://srnpdx.org/sites/default/files/RR1108web.pdf
Also, @Rose says 2008-2009 was Ms. Porter’s first year at Skyline.
~snip
“Finally, I see Ms Porter in her first year at Skyline I think would be teaching grades 4-5 in 2008-2009. So she was new to second grade with Kyron. Wonder why she was “moved down” after only a year at 4/5?”
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-157/#comment-1706053
Since TMH’s license expired in March, 2007, it appears she would not have been in direct competition with Ms. Porter for a teaching job at Skyline for the 2008-2009 school year.
Finally, it would be great to get some input about the relative value/worth of the Initial Teaching vs. Basic Teaching designation from someone much more knowledgeable than I.
fwiw, I also think their specificity training is different. There was a specialist observing her class, trained in observation of special needs assessment, so apparently Ms. Porter was not in a position to make such recommendations or observations. However, I do not know if that asset was used in multiple classes across the board.
B
@cd – I have not seen a completed resume for Terri. Resumes generally change format to fit particular job applications so I would expect some variations. Here is what I have in my file. Some of it is duplicated because it appeared in different places but from the same sources.
All I can say is that having spent 20 years helping high school students prepare resumes, complete job and scholarship applications, and also volunteering to help some adults with resumes as well, I sense a weakness in the way she presents herself as a job applicant and I personally doubt she would have been a competitive candidate. However, that may not have mattered if she had spent as much time at Skyline and volunteering for PPS as her FB page says. It’s quite possible to put a good spin on your work history to fit your career goals, but it seems to me that she wanted to appear to be the equivalent of a full time employee, and that’s not how it’s done. We also discussed a long time ago the terms she used, such as “typicals”.
If Terri was at Skyline enough to justify the “years” she says she has worked there, she certainly would have been known by Keefer, by various teachers and staff, and by other parents who volunteered, at least in the lower grades. The silence (vs speaking on her behalf), especially early on, from most of the people she supposedly helped for 2 to 6 years is deafening.
When I combine all this with what I have posted before about the one and only comment from my one LE source – “When asked about Terri Horman, others at the school repeatedly asked “who?” – I have to think it just doesn’t add up. In my own opinion, and only mine, I think she saw herself as having the “X-Factor” of a great teacher, but for whatever reasons, others did not see her that way.
Terri’s FB page:
Teaching Assistant
Portland Public Schools
(Educational Institution; Education Management industry)
September 2008 — Present (2 years )
Assisting at Skyline Elementary School for testing.
Reading Specialist
Portland Public Schools
(Educational Institution; Education Management industry)
September 2007 — Present (3 years )
Specifically Skyline Elementary assisting in all classrooms as needed.
Elementary Teacher
Portland Public Schools
(Educational Institution; Education Management industry)
March 2002 — December 2008 (6 years 10 months)
Reading Specialist
Terri Horman’s Education
Northwest Christian College
BA , Education , 1998 — 2000
Activities and Societies:
President of Educational Club
Founder of YPO (Young Parent Organization)
Roseburg High School
—————————————————-
LinkedIn – copied 9-3-12
Terri Horman’s Overview
Current Teaching Assistant at Portland Public Schools
Reading Specialist at Portland Public Schools
Past Elementary Teacher at Portland Public Schools
Education Northwest Christian College
Roseburg High School
Recommendations
1 person has recommended Terri
Connections
36 connections
Terri Horman’s Summary
I am seeking employment with elementary level grades, but while searching, I currently volunteer my reading specialist skills at Skyline Elementary in the Portland Public School System.
A certified teacher since 2000, I have taught “typicals” through college level, ADD, ADHD, ODD, OSC, YSC, Prader Willy, Down Syndrome and Medically Fragile.
I recently took some World Literature classes through Portland State University and renewed my certification.
Specialties
Reading Specialist
Special Education OSC & YSC
Terri Horman’s Experience
Teaching Assistant
Portland Public Schools
Educational Institution; 5001-10,000 employees; Education Management industry
September 2008 – Present (4 years 1 month)
Assisting at Skyline Elementary School for testing.
Reading Specialist
Portland Public Schools
Educational Institution; 5001-10,000 employees; Education Management industry
September 2007 – Present (5 years 1 month)
Specifically Skyline Elementary assisting in all classrooms as needed.
Elementary Teacher
Portland Public Schools
Educational Institution; 5001-10,000 employees; Education Management industry
March 2002 – December 2008 (6 years 10 months)
Reading Specialist
Terri Horman’s Education
Northwest Christian College
BA, Education
1998 – 2000
Activities and Societies: President of Educational Club Founder of YPO (Young Parent Organization)
Roseburg High School
Terri Horman’s Additional Information
Interests:
Professional: World Literature, REA training, DRA training Personal: gardening and weight lifting.
Groups and Associations:
Everybody Wins! USA
Learning, Education and Training Professionals Group
Honors and Awards:
Award for Job Excellence from Bonneville Power Plant while taking on an assignment to create a state standard curriculum guide example for K-2 students.
I was awarded this for learning some various jobs and helping out with day to day tasks while creating my guide.
Was she ever a paid employee of any kind within PSD? That resume would certainly indicate that.
OR, was her assistant role required for classroom hours for her certification or continuing education needs?
B
B
@everyone –
At one time or another, we all seem to think if LE had this or that evidence about this or that crime they could charge Terri with, she would be in jail by now. I’ve been thinking about that and I’m not so sure.
If, for example, a MFH conviction was “possible” or even “probable” but not absolutely certain, and she was charged and tried and found NOT guilty, but the MFH was critical to relate to the motive in Kyron’s case, then that piece would be forever lost for use in Kyron’s case.
In other words, no matter what LE has that could lead to a charge of some kind, IF it was needed as part of the circumstantial case they’ve built re Kyron’s disappearance, why would they take a chance on having that taken away if she were found not guilty – no matter how big or small the charge?
The only times that charging her would make sense would be if the statute of limitations was almost up on whatever charge(s) they felt they could make, OR if sufficient evidence turned up to charge her with something directly relating to Kyron’s case and that piece was no longer critical to the case.
I’m, again, not an attorney, but as a strategy, wouldn’t this make sense? Now if you had enough to convince Houze she would be convicted and that bargaining might be a good route to go, that’s a different story.
@T Ruth
Lots you say makes sense
I have no idea what this illegal landscaper
Who was foolin around
Shoved a woman holding a small child
And must have gave the impression he took out
People also a AKA
Would be credible
Or how Kaine who never knew they hired him
could want him fired
I agree if the parents 4 of them had stuck together
At the start may be things would be different
MockingbirdSings, Thank you so much for the time you take with your thoughtful posts. The one from two A.M. this morning is now my personnel favorite, says so much. I always liked the, “assisted with testing” line. Lets call it what is was, “Mommie Helper.” And, about that masters degree from Pacific, uh huh…….
MockingBird always gets an “A”
Falstaff- are you saying TH does not have a masters degree from Pacific?
B
I think my post still in-moderation from yesterday may have been sandwiched again.
That’s okay, no worries, will post again now :
re: probable cause
fwiw, from KH’s October 2010 court filing:
“Law enforcement officials have informed me that that more than one circuit court judge has determined probable cause exists to implicate Respondent in Kyron’s disappearance and in the murder for hire plot. Respondent and her lawyers are also aware of this.”
pdf of court filing found with article published October 25, 2010
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_calls_his_estrang.html
note
pdf of court filing/document to the right of the article needs to clicked on to view
nope your up and I just replied, I wanted to read it again in total. If it hits page 2 you are welcome to repost with my response, thanks and sorry for the delay.
B
Sexually motivated offender. Crime of opportunity.
Did DAD work for RS? IR landscaping as one of his areas. And, a local stated that landscaping project had recently been completed at Skyline. Also recall a local saying people noticed TH st school flirting with LS… or am I crazy? Travelling with iPhone, not as easy for research
@quizzical. You nailed it.
I will not go look for url again which I posted here several times, but IIRC BOE meeting minutes affirmed Ms Porter as a 2nd year probationary teacher in Spring 08 for 08-09, and as 3rd year probationary in spring 09 for 09-10, and gave her tenure in spring 10, same as L Terrones.
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/mskach/Sept28minutes10.doc 1st paragraph under Old Business identifies the parent Landscape Grant and planting operation mgr.
Minutes also list (and were filed by at times) an Intel engineer retiree who attends pta meetings & who was on auction leadership team, and whose wife has been a room parent, leads a class lit circle weekly, etc. Constant volunteers on site at school. Is this who you refer to,Venetia? it was the first name myeyes lit on of the 490, so I haven’t looked farther.
The Instructional Asst cum Front Office Secretary remains involved:
http://www.srnpdx.org/event/skyline-school-pig-roast
Other active school supporters listed as well.
4th grade 2011: generous parents do 1.5 hour Lit Cr. http://mrsdunnskyline.blogspot.com/2011/10/monday-october-17-2011.html?m=1
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/school-skyline/Skyline_PTA_Meeting_Minutes_1_10_12.docx
Under School Program:
“Learning Center Update – District has hired a Special Education long-term substitute. The long-term substitute will work with Ms. Robertson to ensure students are receiving the support that is needed. Special Education is funding the position.”
Now in Jan 2012 this angers me big time for spec ed students. Why in Jan 12 was Skyline just then getting a longterm Resource sub from PPS? It is unconscionable to have left those IEP’s kids, and kids in need of screening uncovered for Sept-Jan. And why a Sub? Terrones didn’t come back to Skyline anyway in 2012. He followed Keefer. Terrones, as perhaps a second career older graduate, was an apparently newly licensed teacher from Calif whom Keefer hired for PPS & sheperded to tenure at Skyline. ,Keefer hired him again at his middle this year. Terrones was assigned as the Resource teacher at Skyline for 11-12, appeared in the school handbook & online on staff listing, but disappeared. I always thought last minute parental leave/new baby, but unless he had tbi from an auto accident Aug 29, it is unconscionable Skyline had no permanent Resource teacher in the Fall of 2011 and were just getting to a long term sub in January. He’s back when Keefer gives him a job this year at his current school.
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/mskach/Sept28minutes10.doc under New Business voice recognition software $3500. It is amazing how much energy & grant writing/mgmt goes to landscaping & green & how little to basic tech for special needs students. First site licenses for voice recog software (Dragon) don’t run to $3500. Second this is probably text to speech Kurzweil whose site licenses at that time if they were stand alones (not networked) might run to $3500 with several pkgs. imo Learning Ctr Resource teacher did not know a lot about software for dyslexics, and the principal is passive. A principal who wants these tools allocates from general Foundation fundraising & goes to pta Exec to approve.
Anyway, this raises for me the issue of whether Skyline was even on PPS servers or ran its own? I was in a school with techie leadership which opted not to go County because County was then Macs (just like Skyline under Principal Crockett, did I post his IBM grant proposal?) & ran its own server. Wired the school, bought the computers, wiped & cloned new yearly, etc. Ran their own operation for 15 years. The lack of discussion of software (probably Kurzweil) meshing with County server on this budget item triggers my question: was the Skyline server site or County?
And if Terri thought she could do better than someone it would’ve been a new Life Sills certified staffer trying to teach reading imo
Resume building, alibi building, all the same. ; )
She has a masters from Pacific, that is fact and appropriate for a resume.
I get that you have an unwavering commitment to TH guilt of all things regardless of any developments or information that is contradictory to that being a fact-based opinion.
I would like to keep the verifiable facts like her education, not subject to bias rumor, thus why I called you out on it.
I am not out to change opinions of those that I know from experience have no interest in same, but I do feel strongly that we should not be so committed to being right that we forget to realize that almost every person reading here could find themselves in a similar set of circumstances to this woman and as a society we should all be very wary of how we react as a result.
It should matter that TH has never been charged with any crime, a GJ has been suspended without an indictment 3x, and LE effed this investigation albeit unintentionally, but it is what it is.
All the while, a little innocent goes unrecovered. That sickens me.
B
“Award for Job Excellence from Bonneville Power Plant while taking on an assignment to create a state standard curriculum guide example for K-2 students.
I was awarded this for learning some various jobs and helping out with day to day tasks while creating my guide.”
Sounds like she was a parent volunteer with the Bonneville employee who both oversaw Skyline’s grant and served ad student educator. He came to Skyline for classroom in services with kids which was a requisite part of Bonneville’s solar grant, that morphed into a windmill.
Is there a reason KH have been so willing to do anything he could to ‘help’ LE against TMH? — like maybe having a #3 “possibility” waiting in line, and maybe he was fed up with TMH and her weight gain and her whining about having to do ALL of the child rearing while he played on his computer, and maybe she was looking elsewhere for “comfort”, too?
So he would have been willing to wear a wire, maybe even set her up with his pal MC (however, she sure fell into that one!). Just wondering.
@uzzled says:October 5, 2012 at 8:01 pm
T. Ruth says: October 5, 2012 at 6:42 pm
Right on! I agree with your scenario … I will add that Kaine took advantage of the MFH to file for divorce in the hope that custody and other issues would be avoided and a divorce granted.
@MbS. Great post. Just some clarification,
not intended to defend Terri, whom I doubt I would have liked.
But just to put another face on things in an el ed or K-8 setting, I’ll use me as example for who shoukd be known or recognized. I was reminded of my past in lookin at Minutes at Skyline, seeing the regulars.
public parent leadership differs immensely from qualitative privates.
Both are political, but there is no comparison in my experience.
There is not a PUBLIC school I was in where a regular pta leader, pull a name out of the hat say like Carol or Heidi, not have said “Who” or “I never saw her in the halls when I was there” about me, too.
Yet one year I was there weekly for Lit Circle, one year twice weekly for Computer Lab (teacher uncomfortable with kids writing assignments on computers). One year I worked 4 hrs daily x 3 days week in library. Often at night I worked on Tech crew. And much more during the day, any time any teacher had a need. Would the parents in the rooms have known me? No. My job was to make the teacher’s job successful. It’s a very delicate matter for a teacher to get a lot of help from a parent both in terms of ego & profession. No teacher I assisted would’ve enlightened other parents or trupeted it to her boss the principal Who’s to say Terri thought differently?
I trained the Resource & paras in software in several schools (and often bought it.) . I was there at least as much as say Carol or Heidi during the day, but those sorts of pta volunteers probably
wouldn’t have known me as I had a busy life, and I came and did my job & left.
Our pta was run by women with a need to be known, and to control; I kept a low profile. Men on my Tech committee would get up & walk out when certain women started to speak, and I agreed but kept to my quiet seat. Frankly, by high school, almost all the first rate exec pta parents from both my el ed systems were gone to private, where both wisdom of judgment and civility were more likely.
So I take what one public school pta maven says about another parent to LE or on line with a large saltshaker.
Thank You MBS
I find it interesting under personal
Weight lifting
Appreciate your response, Blink, and also appreciate your need to review.
“She GOES BACK and agrees to a second, and walks out at some point, I was told it was in the pre-interview, never getting to the questions, and it involved discussion of RS. This certainly makes sense as we move to door #3.”
I never realized that RS was brought up to TH by LE prior to the sting and never would have thought that given the premise of these mfh’s stings . . . catching an alleged conspirator completely off guard that LE is “on to them”.
Don’t get it.
He would have had to have been brought up and discussing same with LE- they could not get a warrant on a Saturday for an undercover sting with a DEA agent and surveillance tailing her home, etc. Kaine was out of that house – this needed lead time.
She called 911 on Sanchez ftlog, I really don’t think she was concerned about what he was saying to anybody. I wonder if Kaine ever heard that 911 call- I would bet money he did not.
B
@Blink. great analysis re wpg’s url. If preinterview walkout in 2 was on RS discussion, I bet she was angry big time they seemed to question her veracity vs his. I’m shocked she wrnt back. According to bios, she did it because they appealed to her. I’m thinking now 3 was merely a ruse to get her out of the house so Kaine could abscond and the sting be set up.
It came to me last nite Kaine probably had her fire him the preceding Nov & she probably owed him money. I bet Xmas 911 was a money demand visit. When know when Ecker went to the door re money problems ghe Hormans blew him off and she called 911. I bet Kaine said he didn’t authotize those blackberry bushes & she couldn’t pay. Perhaps James was sent away, and she attempted same with Kyron, because he threatened to retaliate & he’d jumped her holding Kitty. That is, perhaps the revenge motif began in Nov 2009 due to her stiffing him not the May 911, which worsened things. I would love to know if Dec 911 involved RS, and if an injury resulted.
Fwiw, if RS had no poly, I think a lead investigator just bonded with him and chose to be a believer. Like Cruz said on BOC in 2010, Terri reminds me of my ex-wife. Maybe O’Donnell, or even the fbi field office director, just had counter transference.
Just me, but wouldn’t it be odd for the mother who has a child whose age is from infant to 18 months year old to apply for a full time teaching job? Most women I know, would wait until their child was at least in pre-school, many, would wait until their child was in kindergarten, or 1st grade.
Seriously, I think if she had applied for a job at any PPS school during her pregnancy with baby K or after she was born and before Kyron went missing and been turned down, we would have been told this by at least Desiree Young.
Desiree’s recent letter to Terri, says she knows what she was going through. She’s not talking about being rejected by any school, she’s talking about Terri being angry at her husband, period. She never even says she was taking it out on or even angry at Kyron. She just says that the alleged emails confirm Terri was blaming Kyron for some of her marital problems. I take that as there was some kind of huge difference of opinion happening between Kaine & Terri involving the rearing of Kyron, and James being relocated, to me, says the same darn thing.
Since we’ve never seen these complaining emails, and we didn’t live in that house with Kaine Horman, I have no idea what context to view them in, but I don’t think there was any anything Terri resented about Skyline or PPS.
This is a bit of the November 2011, Dateline story, Gwen Robie says Terri was *hoping*, as in the future, to getting back into teaching, which makes much more sense to me, than her applying while caring for an infant or toddler.
KS: And Gwen Robie says its clear just how much Terri loves children. Gwen is Terri’s friend from the gym. They work out together almost daily, and Terri would share stories about the daughter she has with Kaine, two year old Kiara, or Kitty for short.
GR: She’s fantastic with Kitty. She loved that little girl. When she would talk about Kitty, I mean, her eyes just light up, I mean you just see this … positive energy just flowing out of her when she’s talking about Kitty. I mean, it’s amazing.
KS: Gwen says Terri would also talk fondly about Kyron. A former teacher, Gwen says Terri was hoping to get back into the classroom.
GR: She was passionate about children. She talked about children like….like that’s what she likes doing. You know, that she liked taking care of kids.
@nate0419 says:
October 5, 2012 at 4:33 pm
” … BUT, I think they discovered Terri was not the mastermind of Kyrons disappearance somewhere between Kaine & Kiara leaving the home and the whoops we forgot about the house and Terri is forced out. How does a once divorced Father and his well respected Attorney, forget to ask for the home? …”
____
IIRC The above “issue of the house” was discussed @ length during the early days after “the sting. Remember,”everyone” – KH/TMH etc KNEW the house was “bugged”.
With “everyone” [LE/KH/DY etc] pointing their ‘collective finger/s’ @ TMH, what ‘better way to keep an eye & ear on her but leave her in the home’.
IIRC Also remember, this is also the period of time TMH ‘moved DDS’ into the home & had “friends” purchase pre-paid phones under ‘false names’. Phones that TMH”s friends said were ‘used’ so they could have ‘private conversations w/o LE listening in’ as well, leave the house & talk in the yard.
AMOO but after a ‘period of time’ & gaining no ‘new intell or a smoking gun per se’, a new ‘tactic was put in place’ to put ‘pressure on TMH by now (then) having her move out (in a very short period of time).
IIRC ‘speculation to why TMH left mustang car (besides possible in KH name only &/or outstanding loan in KH’s name only) was TMH & Houze were aware it was “bugged” and left it where it was parked @ the house.
IIRC there were last minute Judge/Attorneys/KH&TMH discussions/negos’ on the Friday before TMH left house. Public were never privy to “any terms” that were agreed to beyond date & time TMH had to be/would be out of the house.
AMOO but the whole “issue” of TMH staying @ the house w/the granting of the RO was “a tactic” NOT an oversight.
Again, AMOO
I see I didn’t post this I found last nite re Skyline tech:
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools-c/pages/skyline/site/ibm.pdf
2003 doc which references Kevin Crochett as principal (while Keefer was Asst Prin).
Crochett had a stellar background, but it was his first Admin job. See “Skyline School News”; he acceded 2002. http://srnpdx.org/sites/default/files/RR1002.pdf
He seems shotly thereafter to have lateraled to Forest Park El Ed which made way for for his Asst Ben to move up is my inference, at Forest Park Crochett continued his cyber focus & expertise for students & in my book on paper he’s a PPS star.
Interesting the 2003 grant proposal terms Susan Hall the Instructional Asst go to. That explains this year’s principal’s Newsletter’s column saying Hall was assisting her on classroom placement assignments. Hall is not a mere secretary , therefore. The question is whether Instructional Assistance on a Science Fair/Talent Show day kept her so busy that she did not follow, or ensure teachers followed, PPS policies on Attendance reporting.
Anyway, if this grant proposal went thru, Skyline was in fact proposing to set up its own server on site. Moreover their purchases were 15 laptops (which can walk away) and 4 uprights. Skyline’s posture in the proposal was just like my first el ed which began its own internal operation bcz the County was then Mac based & would only supply Macs. In this proposal, Skyline is Mac based & principal/parents want PCs. They also want what my school set up when they got their pcs amost a decade before 2003, a dedicated instructional computer room with capacity for an entire class plus an instructional smartboard. (So why were they asking for laptops here?) Note a server is explicitly mentioned.
This grant mentions a number of active parents to support the grant operationally from several tech businesses– just like my school (the dads, and a couple stray moms who’d go wire and go to everyclassroom maintaining in night work sessions episodically).
What is strange is the grant mentions funds for a one year hire of a “tech enthusiast” and it seems like crochett had someone in mind probably a parent as a functional school employee but not paid by PPS for set up, curriculum, training. All schools have a media instructional asst usually housed as part of the library staff. I really wonder how much of this grant & plan went thru, and I wonder which hardware/software engineer parents were part of Crochett’s planning & implementation of grant team?
What is the statute of limitations for a MFH plot? Moreover, what possible “additional proof” could LE be expecting/hoping for regarding the MFH plot (after two years) that would make them think they could finally convict Terri?
Also, @ Blink: “Lastly- if TH through counsel does not come out swinging in response to this suit if it is to proceed, she is an idiot who does not know enough to reach out for a tree branch before she hits the ground on her 2 year fall.”
B
—
Terri remains with her parents and has been completely silent for two years. She obviously listens to her lawyers’ and follows their direction. Terri may or not be an idiot, but her attorneys’ most definitely are not.
I wish we knew what was going on with the Civil suit!! I wonder if James is gone by now.
The cases are inextricable. Frankly, LE has no choice but to sit tight if they cannot prove either.
No they are outstanding counsel, as I have always maintained, but all aspects of strategy to effect outcome are in the quiver.
B
Falstaff- I struggle to answer in total given your request for privacy on your post.
Without being glib in any way, if you have a background in such an area, how is it you cannot confirm or deny what you feel is inaccurate?
B